A friend of mine was running a Traveller game and he insisted that a ship's jammer can spoof all sensors. while I agree that a Jammer can block any kind of radar or electromagnetic sensors I don't think the Jammers can block neutrino or gravitic detectors. Can I get a second opinion on this because otherwise if both our ship it and the enemy have Jammers then we will both be firing blind in each other. Please help.
Jammers in traveller5
- Thread starter Yeldarb89
- Start date
Welcome, Yeldar!
Others may know the answer. But I will suggest taking lemons and making lemonade out of this.
This turns the game into a sub hunt. Both sides are effectively blind, so you have to rely on signal leak (insert technically plausible term there) to guess at a ship's likely position. Tension can be ratcheted up by forcing a double-blind confrontation.
This is not a bad thing. You could play it like Sean Connery in Hunt For Red October. Assume a swashbuckling demeanor, make the crew "run as silent as possible", and sneak around, ready to unload all barrels when the time is right.
So, when I'm forced to decide on this, I side with the referee. But what if I were the referee? Then I could easily come to a different conclusion.
Others may know the answer. But I will suggest taking lemons and making lemonade out of this.
This turns the game into a sub hunt. Both sides are effectively blind, so you have to rely on signal leak (insert technically plausible term there) to guess at a ship's likely position. Tension can be ratcheted up by forcing a double-blind confrontation.
This is not a bad thing. You could play it like Sean Connery in Hunt For Red October. Assume a swashbuckling demeanor, make the crew "run as silent as possible", and sneak around, ready to unload all barrels when the time is right.
So, when I'm forced to decide on this, I side with the referee. But what if I were the referee? Then I could easily come to a different conclusion.
AnotherDilbert
SOC-14 1K
How about this?
T5 said:
Well, the short answer is that his Traveller 'Verse is his to define.
More science-y, I figure it will be harder to fillter/jam neutrinos or gravity waves than electronic signals. Extremely high tech levels may develop the ability. So, the more "helpful" answer is that it could depend upon how one define one's tech levels.
I would also argue that Jammer as described is explicitly against electromagnetic signals. That is not to say that specific Jammers couldn't be constructed for Grav or neutrinos, but they would be separate devices (and would have to be house-ruled, as they are not covered by T5, AFAIK).
His game, his rules. As long as he consistently applies his interpretation of the jammer rules, there's no problem.
I was mistaken about HG2's armor rules for close to 25 years. It didn't matter because I applied my mistake consistently. My mistake effected both the players and their opponents equally so no one had an advantage.
The rules are where you start, not where you end. You're supposed to be having fun pretending you're flying between the stars having adventures. You're not supposed to be arguing trivia or citing paragraphs in some "I memorized more of the book than you did." genital-sizing contest.
Last edited:
Quoted For Metaphysical Truth (short form: Amen!). This has been true since the very beginnings of Traveller.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I've been looking hard at a sensors retrofit for CT/HG, to include a full range of EM spectra plus acoustics, particles, specialized EM like radio and EMF from power systems, etc. plus yes neutrino and gravitic sensors.
The model I'm using assumes long range ability conferred by VLA on the hull and short range sensors on more the single-mounted dish/antenna type. Since there is only so much hull, only so many systems can be crammed in per TL and you get gaps in the spectra of possible sensors you are using/have to defend against/jam.
I want to have stealth be 'a thing', but each type of EM requires it's own stealthing regimen and doing more then one at a time makes for more and more expense. It's so expensive that on a practical basis only small craft will get the 'full treatment', and navies/pirates/PCs on a budget will more likely stealth against a few EM spectra and count on opponents to not have more exotic sensors.
So, could be a semi-stealthed player ship gets past the patrol ship by being stealthed for the long range IR, Radar, UV and Optical sensors but it's power plant and power systems are detected by the Lab Ship wandering by that has Neutrino and EMF sensors.
Another principle is that avoiding detection is very hard and jamming is effectively providing a strong emission source to home in on, the goal is more to break targeting solutions and tactical intelligence. Spoof more then jam.
Computer, EW/Sensors skill and TL would all be in play in here.
An easy strap-on to most any Traveller versions would be to upgrade the sandcaster to effectively 'chaffroc' across multiple EM spectra.
For things like neutrino detection, instead of handwaving some sort of jammer/spoofer (such as mini neutrinocasters chucked out the 'caster), you could rule that they CAN'T be spoofed.
In which case the solution is to not turn them on.
So the power plant gets shutdown and you 'sun silent' on batteries or capacitors.
For gravitics, could be tricky. The mass of the ship should be detectable, and the use of grav drives definitely should give off an artificial gravitic manipulation result.
One way to go is assume a different paradigm- the antigrav drive works to reduce the ship's 'mass' vis-a-vis the 'normal' universe, which is why a simple reaction thrust that should only push a few tons works to move a 5000 metric ton ship around.
Or, a grav drive could be set to give off anomalous or confusing 'waves', and that's what agility avoidance really is, the drives creating targeting uncertainty for any gravitic detector.
The model I'm using assumes long range ability conferred by VLA on the hull and short range sensors on more the single-mounted dish/antenna type. Since there is only so much hull, only so many systems can be crammed in per TL and you get gaps in the spectra of possible sensors you are using/have to defend against/jam.
I want to have stealth be 'a thing', but each type of EM requires it's own stealthing regimen and doing more then one at a time makes for more and more expense. It's so expensive that on a practical basis only small craft will get the 'full treatment', and navies/pirates/PCs on a budget will more likely stealth against a few EM spectra and count on opponents to not have more exotic sensors.
So, could be a semi-stealthed player ship gets past the patrol ship by being stealthed for the long range IR, Radar, UV and Optical sensors but it's power plant and power systems are detected by the Lab Ship wandering by that has Neutrino and EMF sensors.
Another principle is that avoiding detection is very hard and jamming is effectively providing a strong emission source to home in on, the goal is more to break targeting solutions and tactical intelligence. Spoof more then jam.
Computer, EW/Sensors skill and TL would all be in play in here.
An easy strap-on to most any Traveller versions would be to upgrade the sandcaster to effectively 'chaffroc' across multiple EM spectra.
For things like neutrino detection, instead of handwaving some sort of jammer/spoofer (such as mini neutrinocasters chucked out the 'caster), you could rule that they CAN'T be spoofed.
In which case the solution is to not turn them on.
So the power plant gets shutdown and you 'sun silent' on batteries or capacitors.
For gravitics, could be tricky. The mass of the ship should be detectable, and the use of grav drives definitely should give off an artificial gravitic manipulation result.
One way to go is assume a different paradigm- the antigrav drive works to reduce the ship's 'mass' vis-a-vis the 'normal' universe, which is why a simple reaction thrust that should only push a few tons works to move a 5000 metric ton ship around.
Or, a grav drive could be set to give off anomalous or confusing 'waves', and that's what agility avoidance really is, the drives creating targeting uncertainty for any gravitic detector.
It seems to me that if one accepts the existence of gravitic manipulation (creating either a push or pull based on some spin-off of gravity), you ought to be able to create an effective gravitic screen as well that damps gravitic/mass readings. A side effect might be that it increases the electromagnetic signature of the unit as it operates, requiring greater EM-screening.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
The obvious fix here is what I do with jammers.
First, there is a roll to see if the jammer (since the rules make them sort of generic) will even jam whatever it is the player(s) want to jam. That's based on the amount they spent on it and it's tech level versus the TL of the equipment to be jammed.
You went cheap and low tech: Good luck. You paid premium prices and went with top level tech: Yea, it probably will jam whatever it is you want jammed.
Then you have to roll for success.
Usually, a difference of 2 or 3 TL is sufficient to ensure failure or success depending on which way that difference goes. But, you might get lucky particularly if you have a good operator with sensor skills.
First, there is a roll to see if the jammer (since the rules make them sort of generic) will even jam whatever it is the player(s) want to jam. That's based on the amount they spent on it and it's tech level versus the TL of the equipment to be jammed.
You went cheap and low tech: Good luck. You paid premium prices and went with top level tech: Yea, it probably will jam whatever it is you want jammed.
Then you have to roll for success.
Usually, a difference of 2 or 3 TL is sufficient to ensure failure or success depending on which way that difference goes. But, you might get lucky particularly if you have a good operator with sensor skills.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Actually, those were JTAS CT things, which is why I know about them- never touched MT as a version.
But neutrino sensors (e.g., MINOS) and gravitic sensors (e.g., LIGO) exist in modern-day science, albeit some of them are not ship-portable in 2018.
