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James Bond "You Only Live Twice" rocket guns

Blue Ghost

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Knight
A few months back I came across a site that claimed to be an authority on "rocket guns". I was pretty suspicious since the pictures looked exactly like the so-called "rocket guns" from the Bond film "You Only Live Twice".

I've since lost the link, but can someone tell be definitively if rocket guns are a reality or a fiction?

p.s. I don't mean Traveller's accelerator rifle, though its invention in the game may have been inspired by the flick.
 
IIRC the weapon used by / against the good Commander was a Gyrojet gun. A real life weapon that will series-produced never made it into the mass-market.
 
And I'd not heard of the LMG, that needs adding to Traveller. And speaking of which, someone needs to add Traveller to that wiki page as a game that has used the design as inspiration. Yes, I'm aware that I'm volunteering for both
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No problem
It'll just take me a little while, so if anyone wants to beat me to it that's cool.

I'd never wondered why it didn't make it into wider use because I'd heard the stories and even seen a tape of a firing where the round did the corkscrew out of the barrel. Pity that was all because of sloppy manufacturing and the original was actually superior in range, accuracy and power to conventional with the bonus of lighter weapon and negligible recoil.

A few minor problems that could have easily been corrected and this would have been a great weapon technology. But instead it is relagated to history as a failure. A story all too familiar in the field.

Based on my new knowledge I'm thinking maybe the Traveller versions need a little updating too. I can't recall if they were that effective or not. Certainly no mention was made of stopping the round before it leaves the barrel by just putting you hand over it
Note to self, do not use Gyrojet weapons in close quarters combat except as (very light) clubs.
 
Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
IIRC the weapon used by / against the good Commander was a Gyrojet gun. A real life weapon that will series-produced never made it into the mass-market.
Thanks Michael. That's exactly what I was thinking of. The site I came across put on a big display of showing those photos and explaining the science behind the weapon, but when I saw it I could only think to myself "Hey! Waitaminute! That's from James Bond!" And hence assumed it was another fraud-tech site.

Thanks again.
 
Originally posted by far-trader:
And I'd not heard of the LMG, that needs adding to Traveller.
IIRC, wasn't the "Accelerator Rifle" (Book4 and Striker) capable of automatic fire (bursts of 3 or 4, anyway)? Also, a fully "militarized" version was in MT as the "Assault Rocket Launcher" - a "Gyrojet" version of the ACR (and perfect weapon for the TL10 Marine on a budget).
 
Welcome aboard Wm_Humphrey :D Officially at any rate ;) lurking till you have something to say is fine too :D

Yep, 3 round burst fire or semi-auto and a small magazine for the Accelerator Rifle, not the full-auto belt feed or large magazine drum I imagine when I think LMG.

I'd forgotten about the MT ARL
Guess we don't need to add a full-auto gyrojet weapon
But it should come with a belt feed option ;)
 
And I'd not heard of the LMG, that needs adding to Traveller. And speaking of which, someone needs to add Traveller to that wiki page as a game that has used the design as inspiration. Yes, I'm aware that I'm volunteering for both No problem It'll just take me a little while, so if anyone wants to beat me to it that's cool.

I'd never wondered why it didn't make it into wider use because I'd heard the stories and even seen a tape of a firing where the round did the corkscrew out of the barrel. Pity that was all because of sloppy manufacturing and the original was actually superior in range, accuracy and power to conventional with the bonus of lighter weapon and negligible recoil.

A few minor problems that could have easily been corrected and this would have been a great weapon technology. But instead it is relagated to history as a failure. A story all too familiar in the field.

Based on my new knowledge I'm thinking maybe the Traveller versions need a little updating too. I can't recall if they were that effective or not. Certainly no mention was made of stopping the round before it leaves the barrel by just putting you hand over it Note to self, do not use Gyrojet weapons in close quarters combat except as (very light) clubs.
well, the simple fact is that it failed due to the fact that , whetever its neato factor, aside from concept coolness as a weapon it plain stunk.


In the military field there were simpler, cheaper, more reliable ways of shooting someone that was more accurate, less prone to exploding in the hand, and didnt require the target to be 50 feet away for the weapons projectile to acheive lethal velocity.

In other words, in the dollar of its day, it was outperformed by the average 150 dollar .38

coupled with the fact that to date theres been no established need for a space operable firearmn, and the fact that whatever technology is brought to bear it offers nothing an AK47 can't provide, it will remain what it is, a footnote of yet another interresting but impractical gun design.


That said, in traveler terms, accelerator rifles are in fact Gyrojets, which were in turn no more than handheld rocket launchers. In a vacuum environment they make sense, though anywhere else they have limited use- just as the SF staple the laser pistol will never realistically supplant the kinetic wepaons like projectile firearms and such. They simply dont do that sort of thing as well, tho in other cases they work dandy.

Like any tool, it depends on the job at hand
 
Originally posted by far-trader:
Welcome aboard Wm_Humphrey :D Officially at any rate ;) lurking till you have something to say is fine too
...
I'd forgotten about the MT ARL
Guess we don't need to add a full-auto gyrojet weapon
But it should come with a belt feed option ;)
Well then, IYTU, just add one! ;) Add a fraction of a kg and a few Cr and away you go...

My Trav group now lives in about four different states, and my WWII wargaming has moved back to the fore, so lurking and reminiscing about my four-year campaign from college are about all the Trav I get these days. :( Now that I have high-speed internet, it's time to change that and at least talk Trav.
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Originally posted by bryan gibson:
well, the simple fact is that it failed due to the fact that , whetever its neato factor, aside from concept coolness as a weapon it plain stunk.

In the military field there were simpler, cheaper, more reliable ways of shooting someone that was more accurate, less prone to exploding in the hand, and didnt require the target to be 50 feet away for the weapons projectile to acheive lethal velocity.

In other words, in the dollar of its day, it was outperformed by the average 150 dollar .38
...
Like any tool, it depends on the job at hand
Quite right. The Trav version addresses some of that.

The description for the accelerator rifle says that the rocket burns out after 5 meters - about 1/5 of the distance of the original Gyrojet. To get the same final velocity in 1/5 the distance, you need 5 times the acceleration. So the "muzzle velocity" is going to be five times as high. Just in round terms, if it'll get up to 1000 m/s after a 5 m burn, then it'll be going roughly 300 m/s when it leaves a 0.5 m-long barrel. That's nearly sonic velocity; you won't be stopping that with a piece of cardboard or your hand.

In my mind, the biggest failing of the Traveller accelerator rifle is that they don't assume "smokeless" solid rocket fuel! So in low-G, vacuum environs, you're going to have 5 m-long smoke arrows pointing you out to the bad guys whenever you fire it!
omega.gif
 
GURPS offers GYROCs which are .50 cal versions of the GURPS Traveller 10mm accelerator rifle and snub pistol.

They're in Ultra Tech (old and new) and offer a nice wide range of ammunition, including the "viper" round which is a smart-type of munition. They also detail the effectiveness of range and doing damage and offer some other nice payloads.

I always thought this reminded me of Slippery Jim DiGriz's ".75 recoilless" from the Stainless Steel Rat series.
 
Man-portable ATGMs that burn fuel all the way to the target (eg, DRAGON) are fired from a tripod and the crew has to stand off to the side a few meters to avoid rocket blast.

Shoulder-fired RPGs have to burn all their fuel before leaving the barrel, otherwise the user will get blasted. Over-the-shoulder firing is the configuration that most easily solves the problem.

If you want a traditional pistol or rifle type configuration you'll need a tube to direct gasses behind the wielder. This may introduce a little bit of impulse in ZGee use.
 
If someone in Europe that happens to come through Germany (say fleeing the Hun hordes during the next mass migration period or being displaced by the romans) should try to visit Koblenz. Aside from some nice views it has the WTS and that in turn has a Gyrojet on exhibition. Among about 100 other rifles including Dreyse Needle Rifles, an OICW, the Submaschinegun 11. Party Congress of the SED (talk about political infighting) etc. And quite a few nice tanks including UTE, a fully functional Jagdpanther.
 
Was'nt it the cost of the Gyrojet ammunition per round compared to existing weapons, one of the reasons why it never took off....?
Incedentally, Cyberpunk 2020 has a related weapon, the Wrist Rakete, which cold launched 6 30mm HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) rockets at a target....
The ammo costs some €33 per round or €200 for a 6 round ammo cassette....
 
>>> Shoulder-fired RPGs have to burn all their fuel before leaving the >>> barrel, otherwise the user will get blasted. Over-the-shoulder firing is >>> the configuration that most easily solves the problem.

I belive I saw a weapon that fire as a motar then would boost after it had travelled a certain distance
 
Was'nt it the cost of the Gyrojet ammunition per round compared to existing weapons, one of the reasons why it never took off....?

I think it was the fact that Gyrojets have an accuracy comparable to an 18th century flintlock that keeps them from being popular - most of the high ammo cost is the result of small production runs of custom ammo.
 
Accuracy

I read an article on the website of one of the companies that was supposed to be redeveloping the gyrojet. It said that the problems where do to manufacturing flaws, a crimp at the back end of the case obsucred one of the jets, causing the projectile to fly a corkscrew.
Then again it is from someone trying to sell this so keep your salt handy.

I would like to see this more developed as a Traveller item however, say for example a steerable example a TL or 2 after the 1st model then a guided example, then maybe some specialty example rounds, like a camera, and a target designator for example. Then a party could have a gun battle around corners, say for example each corner adds 1 range band.
 
>>> Shoulder-fired RPGs have to burn all their fuel before leaving the >>> barrel, otherwise the user will get blasted. Over-the-shoulder firing is >>> the configuration that most easily solves the problem.

I belive I saw a weapon that fire as a motar then would boost after it had travelled a certain distance

The 73mm low velocity gun on the BMP-1 used such a system. Also availabel as a tripod mounted recoilless rifle.

And the old "Panzerschreck" of WWII had a rocket that left the barrel still burning. Added a faceguard in the 2nd edition.
 
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