IYTU our solar system only?

[Daneel Olivaw]

Hi all,

Has anyone run or played in a Sol-system only campaign? I'm putting one together and I'm curious about other people's experiences. My solar system TU (SSTU?) involves no FTL travel, no anti-gravity, a pretty hard-SF background in general.

 

[mike wightman]

My cyberpunk campaign evolved into something like this many moons ago. I also found GURPS Terradyne a useful add on to the Cyberpunk supplements.

The next logical step was to use Traveller to flesh out the rest.

I've also run single system Traveller games based in other systems - a lot of fun can be had as the crew of a modular cutter.

 

[epicenter00]

Actually a space campaign like this can work very well, because it eliminates a major source of handwavium (and the subsequent headaches that causes): Jump Drive.

For instance, with a no Jump Drive single-system TU, it's much easier to analyze how piracy might work and tweak your TU so that piracy is possible and viable (without it being overpowering).

The trade model becomes much more linear - you don't have this issue of J-1 traders making money hand over fist while J-2 traders are a sure ticket to bankruptcy.

Given the "smaller" size of the TU, it's much more conceivable that there is a saturation of small ships instead of just a couple of huge ones, making a "small ship Traveller" less of a stretch of believability - perhaps large bulk freighters service the major colonies of Venus, Earth, Luna, Mars, Vesta, perhaps even Europa. Beyond that, it's not really that profitable for big ships to operate in the smaller mining and colony operations beyond that (plus, people beyond there REALLY like their privacy) so swarms of smaller ships might service colonies/habitats around Saturn or Uranus or whatever.

 

[PFVA63]

hi

Hi,

When 2300AD 1st came out I thought about doing something along the lines that you mentioned, but using the 2300AD rules instead of Traveller rules, as they seemed more in line with the type of stuff I was thinking about. Unfortunately, I never really got anywhere with it though.

Regards

PF

 

[Daneel Olivaw]

Every now and then I'm torn between a single system, hard SF, no handwavium setting, and a vast interstellar far future setting. (For some reason, I've never really wanted to use the OTU as presented, but it inspires lots of ideas!)

Intellectually I know that a well-developed Solar System setting can offer an inexhaustible supply of scenarios and locations, but an OTU-like setting feels "unbounded" by comparison; the players would tend, I think, to feel a greater sense of opportunity and adventure in such a setting.

Reminds me of something I first heard in 1982:
"A golden land of opportunity and adventure awaits you in the Off-world Colonies..."

 

[BlackBat242]

Ummmm... if there is no FTL, then there are no Travellers... thus it isn't "Traveller".

It may still be a Sci-Fi RPG, and you could even use the rules set, but it won't be the same game.

 

[boomslang]

Actually a space campaign like this can work very well, because it eliminates a major source of handwavium (and the subsequent headaches that causes): Jump Drive.

Which "headaches" would those be, exactly? As written in the basic rules, I've never had any problems with it: you pay a lot of money for a big piece of machinery, you fill up some rather large fuel tanks with hydrogen, you do some very complex calculations, you gain sufficient altitude away from nearby large objects, and you apply a large measure of electricity -- about a week later, you arrive in a different star system.

Seems very straightforward to me. As partially noted by BlackBat242, it's one of the (three) central assumptions making the game what it is (along with gravitics and tabletop hot fusion power).

For a non-interstellar campaign, one could simply delete the FTL Jump drive technology (and the gravitics, if desired); it might be very helpful to keep tabletop hot fusion -- out beyond Mars, solar power gets pretty feeble per square meter of collector... plus, you're going to have to lug around a lot of reaction mass for your non-gravitic maneuver drives...

 

[mike wightman]

The Traveller is still evident in a single system capaign - limit drives to 1 or 2 G and travel times around the system can be longer than a jump, then all you need are colonies on different worlds/moons, add the odd orbital habitat and you have every planetary type you'd be jumping to in a sub-sector.

And let's not forget the belters and comet wranglers...

 

[Golan2072]

Ummmm... if there is no FTL, then there are no Travellers... thus it isn't "Traveller".

There are Travellers, they just Travel using STL rather than FTL. There is even a comm lag (though smaller) due to interplanetary distances, especially in the outer system - you still need someone to make decisions on the field as radioing for instructions would take you several minutes in each direction even if you're on Mars, so anything involving quick decision-making can't be done by simply asking for orders from your superiors. So yes, you'll have communications faster than travel, but far from instantaneous.

Its a matter of perspective, really. A solar system has more bodies than a typical Traveller subsector has stars, and with the right propulsion technology you'll have several days of travel to nearby objects and several weeks to outer-system ones.

Of course, without gravitics or reactionless drives, you'll need to use a more realistic engine as well, and carry propellant in addition to fuel. And deck-plans would be harder to make (as ships would be either designed for micro-gravity or, if large, for rotation).

 

[mike wightman]

I just used the Traveller ship design rules but changed the jump drive to an interplanetary drive rated in Gs - jump 1 becomes 1G, jump 2 is 2G etc - and keep the jump fuel required as the reaction mass for 4 weeks operation.

The regular m drive becomes an orbital drive for use near planets/stations etc.

 

[spank]

Distances

I have toyed around with this some, the biggest problem I ran into was tracking where everything was distance wise.

 

[Daneel Olivaw]

I have toyed around with this some, the biggest problem I ran into was tracking where everything was distance wise.

As I mentioned in another thread, astronomy programs - including some available as freeware - can do this for you.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

Hi,

I guess, it seems to me, that the big thing with distances in system, is that they will probably vary all the time, as the planets rotate around the sun at different speeds.

As such, I would guess that the time to travel from Earth to Mars, Saturn, or Jupiter, etc, will vary, depending on whether those planets are both on the same side of the sun or on opposite sides, and it could be a hassle to have to try and track actual locations of the planets all the time.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Regards

PF

 

[whartung]

Hi,

I guess, it seems to me, that the big thing with distances in system, is that they will probably vary all the time, as the planets rotate around the sun at different speeds.

As such, I would guess that the time to travel from Earth to Mars, Saturn, or Jupiter, etc, will vary, depending on whether those planets are both on the same side of the sun or on opposite sides, and it could be a hassle to have to try and track actual locations of the planets all the time.

Arguably this problem exists in Traveller now with FTL, we just handwave it away in the jump calculation and travel to a single planet, ignoring other intersystem bodies.

The real math to handle the solar system bodies is REAL hard. The "close enough for a D6" math is much simpler. Orbit size, orbital period, "current date" from zero, pretty simple math. Won't match any star chart or calendar, but who cares.

With a solid 1-2G drive you can pretty much ignore details like planet slingshots, and not "driving through the sun". Then you'd just need a simple program where you put in a date and it will tell you distance and travel times.

The problem is that you pretty much need a small program to convert dates in to object coordinates so you can draw a line between them. I don't think it could readily be done with a table. You might be able to simplify it -- break the orbits in to 4 pieces "NW, NE, SW, SE", using "orbit numbers", and that can perhaps give you a swaggy estimated of where the planet is. Error gets bigger with the larger orbits, might work for inner planets tho.

It would be easy, tho, to run up a quick chart "Mars to Earth travel times, by month, for the next 5 years". Those would be easy to make, and once you've made them up, it's trivial. Lots of planets would mean lots of charts. So you still, really, have the program requirement, but you wouldn't necessarily need it for play -- nice little web app opportunity if someone wants to host it.

 

[Tellon]

I had a campaign that did just that ..

I have a G2V with a system and a far out companion (M0V), so both stars had "habitable zones" and therefore had nations, economies, politics, military issues, R&D, and so on ... The G2V superpower was an early TL 9 religious dictatorship, while the MOV biggie was a low pop science oriented nation with a TL A iirc

so yeah the possibilities were endless

fo my long term travels, I used a Deadalus Drive with reaction, so I too am more for the hard sci feel ...

Since the main worlds are TL 9/10, bringing in a bit of Cyberpunk stuff to flesh some areas out were good, but FFS, Vampire Fleets and 1 other sourcebook (I forgot the name) I used ...

Most ships were all small (under 1000 for Military, and 400 for civilian traders), with a special class of instellar scouts, which happened to be generational ships taking like 100 years for a 1 parsec move.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

Hi,

I guess one of the things I always got hung up on was that it would seem possible that at some times, Mars might be on the way on a voyage from the Earth to Saturn or Jupiter, but at other times Mars might be completely on the other side of the solar system. As such, sometimes stopping at Mars along the way to the outer planets might make sense, but at other times it wouldn't and trying to track the specifics could be a real pain.

Anyway, just some thoughts.

Regards

PF

 

[Daneel Olivaw]

...sometimes stopping at Mars along the way to the outer planets might make sense, but at other times it wouldn't...

Makes for interesting campaign/role-playing scenarios. The path between 2 worlds can include different interim stops at different times, allowing new locales and adventures to be introduced along the way.

 

[epicenter00]

Which "headaches" would those be, exactly? As written in the basic rules, I've never had any problems with it: you pay a lot of money for a big piece of machinery, you fill up some rather large fuel tanks with hydrogen, you do some very complex calculations, you gain sufficient altitude away from nearby large objects, and you apply a large measure of electricity -- about a week later, you arrive in a different star system.

The week later part is a part I constantly struggle to explain to people (that is, after all the laughing and understandable mockery of the "death-in-chargen" rules). Why a week? Why not more? Why not less? It's just not very intuitive.

Then from the more astronomy savvy: Why are the maps 2D? Why is there only one system per hex possible, everyone knows that's lower than stellar density. How could there be hexes with no stars and no refuelling points?

Then there's the problems with the trade rules and how you can make lots of money with J-1, but J-2 is bankruptcy.

As such, sometimes stopping at Mars along the way to the outer planets might make sense, but at other times it wouldn't and trying to track the specifics could be a real pain.

It can also be the source of great fun.

"So this small outpost vanished in six months time? How is it that nobody visited the place during then? Nobody ever came by to check?"

"The attackers took out the long distance comm array first as you can see. Ships wouldn't have visited this place during aphelion. Even during the best of times this isn't the most profitable run, but the additional fuel and sling time to get out here when it's at aphelion, most people don't bother compared to the low trade profits here. It seems the pirates knew that ..."

"Yeah, but it's orbit it should stay unprofitable for the rest our lifetimes."

"Oh right, you're from the Terran office. Not much of a Traveller are you? Well, at the end of six months, Mars swings into a point here it's a lot cheaper to do a burn-and-sling since it becomes a fuel-less run since you can then sling off of Saturn for the course correction and ..."

 

[Daneel Olivaw]

"So this small outpost vanished in six months time? How is it that nobody visited the place during then? Nobody ever came by to check?"

"The attackers took out the long distance comm array first as you can see. Ships wouldn't have visited this place during aphelion. Even during the best of times this isn't the most profitable run, but the additional fuel and sling time to get out here when it's at aphelion, most people don't bother compared to the low trade profits here. It seems the pirates knew that ..."

"Yeah, but it's orbit it should stay unprofitable for the rest our lifetimes."

"Oh right, you're from the Terran office. Not much of a Traveller are you? Well, at the end of six months, Mars swings into a point here it's a lot cheaper to do a burn-and-sling since it becomes a fuel-less run since you can then sling off of Saturn for the course correction and ..."

That's cool!

 

[SnichtheWalrus]

Program

With a solid 1-2G drive you can pretty much ignore details like planet slingshots, and not "driving through the sun". Then you'd just need a simple program where you put in a date and it will tell you distance and travel times.

The problem is that you pretty much need a small program to convert dates in to object coordinates so you can draw a line between them. I don't think it could readily be done with a table. You might be able to simplify it -- break the orbits in to 4 pieces "NW, NE, SW, SE", using "orbit numbers", and that can perhaps give you a swaggy estimated of where the planet is. Error gets bigger with the larger orbits, might work for inner planets tho.

It would be easy, tho, to run up a quick chart "Mars to Earth travel times, by month, for the next 5 years". Those would be easy to make, and once you've made them up, it's trivial. Lots of planets would mean lots of charts. So you still, really, have the program requirement, but you wouldn't necessarily need it for play -- nice little web app opportunity if someone wants to host it.

Has anyone come up with a travel time program from Earth to the various planets at 1G through 6G possibly. Love the idea.