IW Sociology

[Horatius]

In the G:IW book, they describe the inter-war period (The Empty Peace) as a fairly pleasant and benign period of expansion.

Unfortunately, I just can't see that happening. Based on historical precedents this should be a fairly repressive era.

1. Suddenly dumping about a billion soldiers back into the Terran economy can't be good. Just like the return of troops following WW1 and WW2, the wartime economy would remain geared toward wartime production. The transition back to peacetime production would be bumpy at best. Those billion troops would return home to face rampant unemployment.

2. Also on the economic front, that much unemployment would tend to trigger (at least) a fairly large-scale recession, if not a depression.

3. These economic events could result in groups of veterans bonding together for their own defense. In benign terms, the VFW would form on an international scale. Or, in a more harsh world, The Bonus Army (post WW1) may present a problem.

4. Governments may not feel a need to let go of Martial Law or, in extreme cases, a secret police force.

5. With the proliferation of colonies and outposts, governments and corporations may see these sites as a way to expand their natioal holdings, and begin a diaspora, leaving the individual a virtual slave to the gov't/corp until the cost of their trip had been worked off.
(IMTU, the UN is beginning a colony specifically for disenfranchised veterans.)

6. For the protection of the public, all veterans are considered to be lethal weapons. THis classification isn't so much for locking veterans up, but to give law enforcement the ability to take veterans with PTSD or violent behavior the psychological counseling they may need. (Ten years of warfare will do that.)

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone else has other thoughts about the Empty Peace period that I can throw around.

Thanks.

 

[pendragonman]

Originally posted by Horatius:
(IMTU, the UN is beginning a colony specifically for disenfranchised veterans.)

Veteran Colonies have historical precedent. One of the main bones of contention between Marius/Sulla/Pompey/Caesar and the rest of the Roman Senate was the founding of these kinds of colonies.

 

[BlackBat242]

Ex-military often make the best colonists, as they are good at survival, hard-working, tough, used to hardship, and accustomed to sacrificing for group goals and the welfare of others.

Considering this, and the other potential problems mentioned above, they would be strongly encouraged to take what family they have and emigrate to newly opened worlds... and those without families would be recruited to open worlds for others to colonize.

 

[Horatius]

Ok, a veterans colony isn't out of the question and has a historical precedent.

What about a penal colony? A Botany Bay or Georgia or Guyana type colony. Possibly a forced labor colony.

Or would the costs outweigh the benefits?

 

[Straybow]

In the US it costs $20k/yr to keep a prisoner. $40k/yr for maximum security. So, suppose it costs some kCr7 (kCr14 max) to keep a prisoner in the Imperium. You balance that against the cost of sending the petty criminal in cold sleep (or equivalent IYTU), and whatever support costs the mother polity must spend, and how hard it is to recruit voluntary colonists to the place (how unpleasant it is).

I think forced labor is out, because then you also have to pay guards just like a homeworld prison. Now you aren't saving anything.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Of course, if no ships ever touch down on the colony world, except for that highly guarded transfer station - and nobody ever gets into the transfer station - you don't need that many armed guards.

 

[Valarian]

Add in a religious cult and an imaginary disease and what do you get? .... Cygnus Alpha in Blake 7

 

[Space Cadet]

Originally posted by Horatius:
In the G:IW book, they describe the inter-war period (The Empty Peace) as a fairly pleasant and benign period of expansion.

Unfortunately, I just can't see that happening. Based on historical precedents this should be a fairly repressive era.

1. Suddenly dumping about a billion soldiers back into the Terran economy can't be good. Just like the return of troops following WW1 and WW2, the wartime economy would remain geared toward wartime production. The transition back to peacetime production would be bumpy at best. Those billion troops would return home to face rampant unemployment.

2. Also on the economic front, that much unemployment would tend to trigger (at least) a fairly large-scale recession, if not a depression.

There was no Depression after World War II, the post war period was an era of unprecidented prosperity. Those troops would have learned alot of valuable skills that could be applied towards the civilian world.

Originally posted by Horatius:

3. These economic events could result in groups of veterans bonding together for their own defense. In benign terms, the VFW would form on an international scale. Or, in a more harsh world, The Bonus Army (post WW1) may present a problem.

4. Governments may not feel a need to let go of Martial Law or, in extreme cases, a secret police force.

5. With the proliferation of colonies and outposts, governments and corporations may see these sites as a way to expand their natioal holdings, and begin a diaspora, leaving the individual a virtual slave to the gov't/corp until the cost of their trip had been worked off.
(IMTU, the UN is beginning a colony specifically for disenfranchised veterans.)

I figure those veterans have alot of back pay coming, and they government which depended upon them for their victory is going to want to keep them happy, there is also the matter that they just conquered an Empire. I think that from that Empire, the UN will find the funds that would satisfy the Veteran's demands, they can probably afford to send them where ever they want to go, it would be the Interstellar equivalent to the GI bill and then some.

Originally posted by Horatius:


6. For the protection of the public, all veterans are considered to be lethal weapons. THis classification isn't so much for locking veterans up, but to give law enforcement the ability to take veterans with PTSD or violent behavior the psychological counseling they may need. (Ten years of warfare will do that.)

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone else has other thoughts about the Empty Peace period that I can throw around.

Thanks.

This war ended up as a victory for the UN, and to the victor goes the spoils. I don't think there is any need to classify veterans as lethal weapons, lethal weapons are the things they carry, not who they are. A smart UN isn't going to try and cheat them either. PTSD just means they wake up having nightmares and may have some difficulty adjusting to civilian life with employment or in staying married in most cases, it doesn't mean they are walking "killing machines".

 

[Horatius]

Actually, you are correct. THere was no depression. THere was a recession that lasted until mid-1947. (My mistake, I was exagerating to make a point.) It was caused by the influx of veterans increasing the size of the labor pool, and a lack of consmer goods brought about by the re-tooling of the industrial base after the war.

GI Bill, definately. Anything to keep them happy. But, the Ziru Siirka (sp?) hadn't fallen yet. That was still a century plus in the future. THe Terrans percieved that they had just won a major military victory, while the Imperium regarded it as a frontier campaign. Had the imperium brought its full military might to bear, rather than splitting it up and using it to combat the 'pack-hunting pirates (Vargr along their coreward border), the terrans would have joined a long list of conquered/ assimilated civilizations.