Is there the organization such as FBI?
- Thread starter magmagmag
- Start date
Vile
SOC-12
My guess (and it's only a guess) is no. With all the different law levels throughout the Imperium, what would get you arrested on one planet could get you a medal on another. I'd say it would be very difficult to have an interstellar police under those circumstances.
All the more work for bountyhunters and private investigators!
All the more work for bountyhunters and private investigators!
Well the previous poster is correct; the Imperium pretty much leaves enforcement up to the individual worlds.
To answer your question, there probably is an Imperial version of the FBI. Feel free to make one up. My guess is that it would be called "Ministry of Justice" or something like that because I seen to remember a lot of "ministries." A ministry is basically an organization of some kind. Of course, you can pick a different name if you like.
Here are a few points on what I remember regarding Imperial law (feel free to correct me or post your own thoughts everyone!)
1. Certain crimes are Imperial crimes; murder, various kinds of assault, and so on are Imperial crimes.
2. A world's law extends to 10 planetary diameters. Over 10 diameters is considered Imperial space. My guess is that Imperial claims do not extend much past this; it gives them the right to patrol and protect space traffic.
2. The Imperium looks down upon anything that restricts personal freedom, but may not do anything about it as long as it is confined to a given world. For example, consider a world that uses slavery as punishment. The convicted could not be exported to another world, for example.
3. The bulk of Imperial law is focused on trade. Worlds are pretty much left to themselves. Watch out for Imperial trade violations; punishment can be very harsh. For example, insider trading can put you in jail for a long, long time.
4. If a crime is committed in space it has to be within 10 diameters to be considered a crime according to the legal code of that world. Imperial law holds beyond this, but you may still get returned to the closest world for trial. Since the Imperium has laws against violent crimes, you cannot "get away with murder," for example.
5. If a crime occurs on a ship in jump space, the law of the destination world applies.
6. Just because the Imperium allows worlds to govern themselves does not mean they will enforce their laws. For example, a criminal escapes from a world. Depending on the charge, the Imperium may not bother to return the criminal. Imagine a world that has very harsh laws and you are convicted as a political dissident, but you escape the world. The Imperium is not likely to detain and return you. Naturally, there is work for bounty hunters here, and worlds can have treaties with each other. In other words, if a bounty hunter shows up and arrests you (with a valid warrant from another world), the Imperium will probably not help you either.
Without a valid warrant, the bounty hunter could find himself a target.
To answer your question, there probably is an Imperial version of the FBI. Feel free to make one up. My guess is that it would be called "Ministry of Justice" or something like that because I seen to remember a lot of "ministries." A ministry is basically an organization of some kind. Of course, you can pick a different name if you like.
Here are a few points on what I remember regarding Imperial law (feel free to correct me or post your own thoughts everyone!)
1. Certain crimes are Imperial crimes; murder, various kinds of assault, and so on are Imperial crimes.
2. A world's law extends to 10 planetary diameters. Over 10 diameters is considered Imperial space. My guess is that Imperial claims do not extend much past this; it gives them the right to patrol and protect space traffic.
2. The Imperium looks down upon anything that restricts personal freedom, but may not do anything about it as long as it is confined to a given world. For example, consider a world that uses slavery as punishment. The convicted could not be exported to another world, for example.
3. The bulk of Imperial law is focused on trade. Worlds are pretty much left to themselves. Watch out for Imperial trade violations; punishment can be very harsh. For example, insider trading can put you in jail for a long, long time.
4. If a crime is committed in space it has to be within 10 diameters to be considered a crime according to the legal code of that world. Imperial law holds beyond this, but you may still get returned to the closest world for trial. Since the Imperium has laws against violent crimes, you cannot "get away with murder," for example.
5. If a crime occurs on a ship in jump space, the law of the destination world applies.
6. Just because the Imperium allows worlds to govern themselves does not mean they will enforce their laws. For example, a criminal escapes from a world. Depending on the charge, the Imperium may not bother to return the criminal. Imagine a world that has very harsh laws and you are convicted as a political dissident, but you escape the world. The Imperium is not likely to detain and return you. Naturally, there is work for bounty hunters here, and worlds can have treaties with each other. In other words, if a bounty hunter shows up and arrests you (with a valid warrant from another world), the Imperium will probably not help you either.
Without a valid warrant, the bounty hunter could find himself a target.
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
The following organisations are known to investigate crime in the Imperium, more especially breaches of Imperial Law.
Imperial Ministry of Justice
Imperial Interstellar Scout Service Security Branch
Imperial Ministry of Justice
Imperial Interstellar Scout Service Security Branch
i agree...as long as it doesn't affect trade, war or involve piracy they let the local world deal with it....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The scout service has a branch that does such things - there is a thread somewhere where I quoted all the relevant bits from the various write-ups on the scouts - I'll see if I can track it down, and if not dig through the books and post the quotes again.
THe Imperial Ministry of Justice, the IISS, the Imperial Navy, and Imperial Ministry of Trade ALL have law enforcement roles in canon. (IMoT's is limited.)
Archdukes, Sector and Subsector Dukes all have the apparent ability to appoint investigators.
The Emperor issues Imperial Warrants to those investigators he personally commissions, requiring all aid to be rended the bearer. (See Imperial Warrant in the Library Data A-M or in MT Imperial Encyclopedia)
Archdukes, Sector and Subsector Dukes all have the apparent ability to appoint investigators.
The Emperor issues Imperial Warrants to those investigators he personally commissions, requiring all aid to be rended the bearer. (See Imperial Warrant in the Library Data A-M or in MT Imperial Encyclopedia)
The nearest thing I can think of is the JSB (Ministry of Justice Special Branch). This was described in High Passage (magazine). High Passage was co-produced by the High Passage Group and FASA ... I believe FASA's material has been "de-canonised" but if it was then I also don't know if that included High Passage.
What? De-canonized!
Great and I have some High Passage too, dukam! Well, as I dig some of the HP stuff, I might still use and to the Eye with canon.
Well mostly...
And Aramis was right, those are all the Law Enforcement Units, I am aware of...
And MagMagMag, I too have a fixation with the police too, and I adore Shirow's work because of it! Even if he does say mean but true things about the US Imperial Ambitions...
Great and I have some High Passage too, dukam! Well, as I dig some of the HP stuff, I might still use and to the Eye with canon.
Well mostly...And Aramis was right, those are all the Law Enforcement Units, I am aware of...
And MagMagMag, I too have a fixation with the police too, and I adore Shirow's work because of it! Even if he does say mean but true things about the US Imperial Ambitions...
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An FBI. No. But, as noted above, the Ministry of Justice Agents play a similar role. Essentially, the Imperium as a feudal state relies on each estate to police itself and at the same time police each other in a complex system of checks & balances. Hence, the INI oversees the work of Army Intelligence. The SSS oversees the work of the INI. Essentially, a patchwork that then taps into local planetary law enforcement networks allows the Imperium to police the Imperium as a whole. This patchwork works as long as noblese oblige continues to operate by the aristocracy and the citizens to agree to the social contract underpinning the Imperium.
The Imperium understands that there are various shades of grey that it may or may not decide to intervene into. Hence, the use of a police force is strongly encouraged even on worlds that have a government rating of 0 (Anarchy) might still raise local militias to interface with the Imperium. Law levels of 0 tend to be quite rare IMTU...
The Imperium understands that there are various shades of grey that it may or may not decide to intervene into. Hence, the use of a police force is strongly encouraged even on worlds that have a government rating of 0 (Anarchy) might still raise local militias to interface with the Imperium. Law levels of 0 tend to be quite rare IMTU...
jfetters
SOC-14 1K
Man, I missed this thread the first time around.
It all depends on how you want to play it. Within the US Government, the FBI is technically a part of the Department of Justice, although it isn't managed by DoJ. So if you use the canon materials you can create a group for YTU that is some kind of a sister-branch of IMoJ that is similar to the FBI.
Or you could make it some kind of ISIS-like shadow agency.
IMS baby!
While no where near Canon that I know of I myself have always preferred the Archtype of the Marshal/Warder/Ranger.
The lonely being patrolling the Imperium, one Ranger, one riot, kinda thing. Seems that if the Imperium is truly set up to be a Feudal state then the Warder type law enforcement person is more likely. Just my opinion and well, not everyone agrees with me...but then HIM can't even get that, look at young Dulinor.
While no where near Canon that I know of I myself have always preferred the Archtype of the Marshal/Warder/Ranger.
The lonely being patrolling the Imperium, one Ranger, one riot, kinda thing. Seems that if the Imperium is truly set up to be a Feudal state then the Warder type law enforcement person is more likely. Just my opinion and well, not everyone agrees with me...but then HIM can't even get that, look at young Dulinor.
One thing that should be at the back of every GM's mind when answering questions along the lines of "Does <insert modern analog> exist within the Imperium", is one of "What will it cost the Imperium to have this?"
For example? Suppose you decide as GM, that a given agency has 1,000 people, who on average, earn a total of 1,000 Credits per month, or 12,000 credits per year. The payroll alone is going to cost a total of 12 MCr's per year. This does not include the cost of training, the cost of support, nor the cost of transporation that is incurred whenever a field agent or high ranking official has to travel between worlds. An agency that is strapped for cash for instance, might send a field agent in low berth rather than pay the full cost of a middle passage, let alone a High Class passage! If as GM, you determine that there is an FBI type agency within the Imperium, but it is understaffed and under-paid - then those sets of assumptions have a certain internal logic with a reasonablely logical outcome. For example? Suppose you have an FBI like agency located at the subsector capital. It has a total of 1,000 people working at it, and a responsibility to oversee the affairs of 20 worlds within the subsector. On average then, you have 50 people being assigned to each of the worlds within the subsector. You further decide that there are some 20 "world headquarters" to maintain, and on more populated worlds, several regional secondary stations for the agents to work from. Now all of the sudden, you realize that your FBI like agency is hurting for manpower, and is unlikely to send out agents for every single "lesser crime" and prioritize the agency's efforts on those crimes likely to get public attention. After all, it doesn't make sense to investigate fraud or petty bribe acceptance from the lesser officials if the son of a planetary president has been kidnapped.
Now, is 12 MCr a lot of money? Probably. On the other hand, if as GM, using the rules for per capita income from STRIKER, you decide to detail some of the planetary budgets, then you now have the tools for determining just how many people work in the numerous ministries within the Imperium. If you decide that on average, each worker has access to a personal computer, a desk, unlimited communications (ie telephones, cell phones, datanet access, etc), then you can create a "rule of thumb" cost for each worker, and then DOUBLE it for maintenance costs, data center costs, etc. Throw in a travel budget for the agency, and presto - you have a defined agency with limits in manpower, as well as limits in how much money is available to pursue investigations. You might also decide that if the AVERAGE income is 1,000 credits per month, and that the lesser peons make far less than the average - that bribery may very well be common place within the agency.
Remember - TRAVELLER has rules for how much the monthly cost of living is - based upon the social status level of the character. If you know for example, that the agency has a minimum requirement of social status 4 for its workers - then you know what the minimum cost of living requirements are for the status 4 individual and can plan wage costs accordingly.
Per Capita Income and Gross Planetary Production rules don't just have to be used for Military based games, they can also be used for governmental based games as well.
For example? Suppose you decide as GM, that a given agency has 1,000 people, who on average, earn a total of 1,000 Credits per month, or 12,000 credits per year. The payroll alone is going to cost a total of 12 MCr's per year. This does not include the cost of training, the cost of support, nor the cost of transporation that is incurred whenever a field agent or high ranking official has to travel between worlds. An agency that is strapped for cash for instance, might send a field agent in low berth rather than pay the full cost of a middle passage, let alone a High Class passage! If as GM, you determine that there is an FBI type agency within the Imperium, but it is understaffed and under-paid - then those sets of assumptions have a certain internal logic with a reasonablely logical outcome. For example? Suppose you have an FBI like agency located at the subsector capital. It has a total of 1,000 people working at it, and a responsibility to oversee the affairs of 20 worlds within the subsector. On average then, you have 50 people being assigned to each of the worlds within the subsector. You further decide that there are some 20 "world headquarters" to maintain, and on more populated worlds, several regional secondary stations for the agents to work from. Now all of the sudden, you realize that your FBI like agency is hurting for manpower, and is unlikely to send out agents for every single "lesser crime" and prioritize the agency's efforts on those crimes likely to get public attention. After all, it doesn't make sense to investigate fraud or petty bribe acceptance from the lesser officials if the son of a planetary president has been kidnapped.
Now, is 12 MCr a lot of money? Probably. On the other hand, if as GM, using the rules for per capita income from STRIKER, you decide to detail some of the planetary budgets, then you now have the tools for determining just how many people work in the numerous ministries within the Imperium. If you decide that on average, each worker has access to a personal computer, a desk, unlimited communications (ie telephones, cell phones, datanet access, etc), then you can create a "rule of thumb" cost for each worker, and then DOUBLE it for maintenance costs, data center costs, etc. Throw in a travel budget for the agency, and presto - you have a defined agency with limits in manpower, as well as limits in how much money is available to pursue investigations. You might also decide that if the AVERAGE income is 1,000 credits per month, and that the lesser peons make far less than the average - that bribery may very well be common place within the agency.
Remember - TRAVELLER has rules for how much the monthly cost of living is - based upon the social status level of the character. If you know for example, that the agency has a minimum requirement of social status 4 for its workers - then you know what the minimum cost of living requirements are for the status 4 individual and can plan wage costs accordingly.
Per Capita Income and Gross Planetary Production rules don't just have to be used for Military based games, they can also be used for governmental based games as well.
Here's a list of canon Imperial Bureaucracy members from various versions of Traveller over the years.
http://www.io.com/~thrash/bureau.html
I usually go with the Ministry of Justice, but there have been others in JTAS/Challenge magazines and maybe the Dragon magazine too.
>
http://www.io.com/~thrash/bureau.html
I usually go with the Ministry of Justice, but there have been others in JTAS/Challenge magazines and maybe the Dragon magazine too.
>
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
Good observation, Hal. It provides some good adventure hooks for various agancies hiring 'non-military mercenaries' to do field work - as used in our current Diplo-Crisis game.
It also provides a cost rationale for Magnus' 'Lone Ranger'. I have roving wardens IMTU too - primarily due to the cost implications.
It also provides a cost rationale for Magnus' 'Lone Ranger'. I have roving wardens IMTU too - primarily due to the cost implications.
magmagmag - there's your answer:
Supplement 6 was the "76 Patrons" LBB, btw - Excellent and most useful book
Reading between the lines of the Patron-induced adventure notes from the reference noted by Gadrin (Massively excellent find, by the way, Gadrin
), I'd hazard a guess that the "Imperial Police" were being used in the form of an undercover sting-style operation. This lends a little credence to their being a non-uniformed investigative agency of the IMoJ.
Also, since this was a GDW-published book, it's definitely valid as Traveller canon for the Third Imperium. The fact that it's not been fleshed out in an 'official' way since then is a mere detail
Hope this helps
Code:
Ministry of Justice (various)
Imperial Prisons (Supp 3, p. 2)
Exile Camps (Supp 3, p. 2)
"imperial police" (Supp 6, p. 25)Supplement 6 was the "76 Patrons" LBB, btw - Excellent and most useful book
Reading between the lines of the Patron-induced adventure notes from the reference noted by Gadrin (Massively excellent find, by the way, Gadrin
), I'd hazard a guess that the "Imperial Police" were being used in the form of an undercover sting-style operation. This lends a little credence to their being a non-uniformed investigative agency of the IMoJ.Also, since this was a GDW-published book, it's definitely valid as Traveller canon for the Third Imperium. The fact that it's not been fleshed out in an 'official' way since then is a mere detail
Hope this helps
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Remember the Imperium is feudal autocracy. All ministries are subservant to the Emperor. Therefore, all agencies are also directly controlled by the ministeries. Therefore, agents of the MoJ are more powerful than G-Men or at least as powerful as G-Men from the mythology that surrounds them.
Indeed, another route is the ISIS route. However, the precident for the Star Chamber type organizations goes back to the court of James I. So, while there is a multitude of shadowy organizations in the Imperium they eventually lead back to the Emperor just as it does in the RL. The difference is plausible denability is less an issue in the Imperium.
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