Is Refined Fuel Explosive?

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Is refined fuel pure Liquid Hydrogen? Or is there some agent added to it to render it safe? It is a simplistic sort of question... and it just sort of occured to me after all these years...

Hmmm?

Any Thoughts?

 

[vegascat]

Refined fuel will be pure Hydrogen. To make it burn, you must add Oxygen. No Oxygen, no fire.

 

[Shadow Bear]

I view refined fuel as pure liquid hydrogen. Un-refined fuel can have other things that may mess up the process when used.

Hydrogen needs oxygen to burn so only leaks that end up in pressurised areas will be a problem. Fuel tanks must be very strong to hold liquid hydrogen under pressure and leaks would not be help a ship's fuel useage.

 

[vegascat]

Hydrogen will not explode. If thoughly mixed with any oxiding agent, it will burn, but will not generate a blast wave as an explosive. The burn rate is too slow to generate the shock wave associated with explosions. To be considered an explosive, the velocity of the burn must exceed 3,200 feet per second.

On the other hand, If you are standing in a closed compartment containing 1 part Hydrogen to 2 parts Oxygen and strike a match, The next thing you will have to learn is how to breath pure water vapor if you survive the few seconds of intense fire.

Hydrogen will combust with several other oxiding agents. Oxygen is the most comon oxidizer encountered in a ship. IF your crew likes to visit planets with strange atmospheres, you may find another oxidizer to worry about.

As a visual, consider the Hindenburg. It was filled with Hydrogen. It was not premixed with Oxygen, but mixed rapidly after the fire was initiated. It did take s couple of minutes for the fire to reach the rear of the airship.

The large explosions you may have seen are almost always petrolium based FAE (Fuel Air Explosive) events. These compunds use compunds like gasoline mixed with oxygen to make a much more energetic firewith a burn rate of 3,200 feet per second or higher.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

But lords, are there other dangers associated with Hydrogen and seals/vaccsuit seepage?.. I seem to recall reading something to that effect in a giveaway little black book about exotic atmospheres, what? What if an internal explosion on a starship pierces the tanks and the fuel mixes with the atmo inside the ship areas? Death?
Severe Death?


hmmm?

thanks for the responses!

 

[Ben W Bell]

Baron.

Pray tell, what is the difference between death and severe death? I'd imagine normal death was severe enough.

 

[vutpakdi]

Presumably, most ships entering combat would have personnel donning vac suits and the atmosphere thinned anyway (Hard Times mentions 0.2 atmosphere), so the hydrogen contamination wouldn't be too dangerous immediately.

After combat, I would imagine that the life support systems could remove the hydrogen from the atmosphere.

Ron

 

[Aquinas]

If you have a high enough tech then there probably is a distinction between "death" and "severe death".

On the hydrogen front I would suggest that during combat all inhabited areas of the ship are indeed depressurised (to prevent dammage from explosive decompression if nothing else); however I would suggest that surrounding the inward (ie towards the ship) side of a fuel tank there would be a superpressurised skin of inert gas that would encourage, in the event of a tank rupture, the liquid H to spill outward rather than into the ship.

Just a thought... it struck me that a depressurised interior adjacent to a high pressure fuel tank would encourage explosive injection of the fuel into the ship if the tank were breached.

Vidmar

 

[Uncle Bob]

I believe what hydrogen does is technically deflagration rather than explode. Natural gas explosions, exploding grain silos and thermobaric (FAE) bombs are examples of serious deflagration but gasseous hydrogen at amospheric presure has a very low (chemical) energy density. That means a hydrogen "explosion" would be less serious than even a natural gas leek of the same size.

If a hydrogen tank ruptures and spills into a compartment the worst problem will by cryogenic freezing of everything (and everyone) in the compartment.

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by BenBell:
Baron.

Pray tell, what is the difference between death and severe death? I'd imagine normal death was severe enough.

One must be more painfull than the other?

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by thrash:

Hindenburg was destroyed by the burning of the doping compound used on its fabric shell -- which resembled a chemical currently used as solid rocket fuel -- and only incidently by hydrogen gas fire. Note that hydrogen burns with an almost invisible blue flame, not the bright, highly visible flames from the newsreels. See, e.g.: http://www.hydrogenus.com/advocate/ad22zepp.htm

As an example, the Shuttle's main engines are burning Hydrogen... and the flames are almost invisible in daylight conditions. Just check any of the launch pictures/news clips

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
I kinda remember from a program i once watched on TV (and tv is always truthful) that our mad scientists are using Deutirium (yes ignore the spelling you know what i mean) to try to make a fussion reaction, (not bombs).
didnt they use deuterium (yes one of them has to be right) because its kinda safer than hydrogen (its in little pellets not a gas).
If hydrogen isnt used in the reactor (non refined fuel)wouldnt the reactor not be as good at EP production.
Yes i know its a game but everybodys so proud its based on HARD science, with a lot of elasticity built in.
Ploesti hear i come. (flak)
BYE.

 

[vegascat]

The difference between explosion and deflagration is brisiance, the shatter effect. The measured difference is the speed of the burn. High explosives have brisiance which causes shattering. Low explosives or propellants cause thrust.
If you want to move dirt or a heavy object, use something wiht a slow burn rate.
If you want to reduce something to dust or timy fragments, the faster the burn rate, the better.
Burning hydrogen will torch everything in its path, but doesn't have the inherent energy to shatter hardened metals.

If you want to prevent a fuel fire on a ship in combat, remove oxygen from the ship interior. That way when the corridors get flooded with pressurized hydrogen, it will have no oxyidizers to mix with, therefore, no fire, no explosion.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Fuel explosions destroying a starship IIRC occured in combat, usually from a penetrating shot that touched of the ship's atmosphere as well. In the Battle rider game, this occurred on a certain roll.

In MT/ Operation Vigilante, it gabve a detailed explanation of what would happen to a group of corsairs with breeching charges touching off the Starmerc ship's Lhyd tanks- getting splashed/ frozen with the stuff (ala T-2 movie...oogh!)-this was of course into space, so no worries about flaming there...