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Iris Valves - effecting rescue after a hull breech

Safety issues and equipment are a big concern from me IMTU. I play a fairly gritty game and see space as a dangerous place. So here's a dilemma I'm facing:

If I read the deckplans correctly for a Free Trader, there is an iris valve between the brdige and the crew common area. An iris valve on a ship automatically seals if there is a loss of pressure (as in the case of a hull breech).

Assume the following:
-The ship has been damaged and lost power to the forward compartments (including crew common area and bridge)
-Rescuers (in vac suits) are in the depressurized crew common area and, reading the redundant mechanical gauge (because the electronic instruments are inoperative), see that the bridge still has pressure.
-Pounding on the door and feeling for tapped responses from the other side produces no result so it is assumed bridge occupants are unconscious, injured, or unable to respond. An unknown number of persons are on the bridge, may or may not be conscious, and may or may not be in rescue balls.
-There is insufficient time or materials to restore power or pressure to the crew common area or bridge.
-No power to the forward compartment means you'll have to use the manual door release (a lever, contained in a panel besides the door, which is connected to a hydralic line) to open the door with muscle power alone. This will take 5-10 seconds to open it wide enough for a man to crawl through.

How do you rescue those people on the bridge?
-The iris valve isn't an airlock, so opening the iris valve gaurentees the bridge will be explosively decompressed. If this happens, you have between 15 seconds to a little over a minute to get people into a rescue ball or similar pressurized, oxygen environment before they start suffering permanent damage or death.

Possible answer:
-portable, collapsable airlock. A device which when expaned is similar to a open-topped, 7' square, 5' deep box with a sealable entryway on the "bottom". The open end connects to contact points on doorways and iris valves of standard design and forms an air tight seal. A 5 lb "pump" will pressurise and depressurize the interior from an internal air reservoir. Up to two people can stand inside at a time. The side walls are constructed of 3-layered plasticized cloth that is air tight and durable. Support beams are of extensible design and made of titanium tubes. Compacted and stowed the portable airlock weighs 35 lbs and is the size of a large backpack.

This would allow rescuers to enter the bridge in this example without fear of depressurizing it. The trickest part is how to seal the thing against the bulkhead surrounding the iris valve in an airtight fashion. Don't know how to handle that one.

Anyway - that's the only solution I've come up with. Anyone have a good alternate idea? Any problems you see that I haven't pointed out?
 
Hi,

what would think of a rescue team using a kind of inflatable portable rescue chamber/lock.
It has to be placed against the closed iris valve and made air tight to a certain degree. This could be supported by a appropriate, perhaps standard design of the valve, of course.
At least the whole constuction has to deal with a pressure of just 1 atm.

Then one could open the valve and one person placed in the rescue chamber/lock could proceed and do his job.

Regards,

Mert
 
what would think of a rescue team using a kind of inflatable portable rescue chamber/lock.
Ummm...Not to be critical, but this is exactly the solution I already propose in my original post:

Possible answer:
-portable, collapsable airlock. A device which when expaned is similar to a open-topped, 7' square, 5' deep box with a sealable entryway on the "bottom". The open end connects to contact points on doorways and iris valves of standard design and forms an air tight seal. A 5 lb "pump" will pressurise and depressurize the interior from an internal air reservoir. Up to two people can stand inside at a time. The side walls are constructed of 3-layered plasticized cloth that is air tight and durable. Support beams are of extensible design and made of titanium tubes. Compacted and stowed the portable airlock weighs 35 lbs and is the size of a large backpack.

This would allow rescuers to enter the bridge in this example without fear of depressurizing it. The trickest part is how to seal the thing against the bulkhead surrounding the iris valve in an airtight fashion. Don't know how to handle that one.
So I'll take your statement as support that this is a viable rescue method. But I'm interested in alternatives as well. Thanks.
 
Hi,

hoho, not good to be in hurry when reading(!) and answering posts.
So, I have just to completely agree with Your solution.

Perhaps there are also solutions to use an artifical barrier to block the whole corridor, in order to get a little more movement space in front of the valve. E.g. when it needs some welding to force it open...

Regards again,

Mert
 
A third option: Use a shaped charge to cut the Iris valves, effectivly opening the airlock in 0 time. Again you are stuck with the problem of getting the people on the bridge (if any) into rescue balls.

Another option, find the holes in the hull and patch them (at least mostly). This will let you, when you (blow) open the bridge door more time to get everyone into rescue balls. When the air stabilizes between the 1 atm bridge and the 0 atm crew compartment, the difference would be somewhat closer breatable than a vacuum.

I would find it difficult to believe a well equipped rescue team couldn't patch the hull breaches and provide enough atmosphere to safely open the bridge door. Use very wide peices of extra-sticky duct tape over the hull breaches. A large bottle of pressurized air (not just oxygen, but air mixture) to fill the space. The duct tape doesn't need to hold for long (a hour at most) and the air tank only needs to provide 0.1-0.5 atm of pressure. A standard sized SCUBA tank at 300atm will fill between 3 and 10 dtons of space with that kind of air.

Sealing an (standardized) portable airlock around a undamaged bulkhead and iris value is fairly simple, a good electromagnet would do just fine.
 
Sealing an (standardized) portable airlock around a undamaged bulkhead and iris value is fairly simple, a good electromagnet would do just fine.
be one heck of a magnet. even just five p.s.i. (I believe the astronauts operated at five p.s.i.) generates quite a bit of force.

perhaps a better option would be to say each iris valve is built with a raised ring around its diameter, and that temporary plastic airlocks latch onto this ring.
 
Drill a small hole through to the bridge. When the pressure in the bridge drops below .7 atmos, rescue balls should drop from the ceiling (Well they do IMTU) conscious personel get dressed and everyone is happy.

If they aren't able to suit up, then the only way in is to erect an airlock as suggested.

Paul
 
I'm not sure about the floor plan of the ship involved, but if it is possible to seal off (even temporarily) an area outside of the forward compartment as a buffer - say with a volume +/- 50% of that of the forward compartment - then the Iris valve could be opened without the risk of explosive decompression and personnel within could be gotten into rescue gear.

The seals on the buffer area would not need to hold for very long nor be super tight, you only need to contain presure for a few minutes. It should be possible to rig something....

With a buffer area, you'd get a big puff and the pressure would DROP but you're not headed for total vacuum instantly. Also keep in mind that even explosive decompression to total vacuum is not a 'BANG! you're dead' situation. Especially with TL 12+ medical intervention, a minute or so of hard vacuum is probably a survivable ordeal. I believe there is some literature about this on the web - google-fu is left as an excercise for the student


Just my cr0.02

--michael
 
Or you can follow this link provided by Kaladorn over in Software Solutions as part of his Decompression Calculator post, which is also well worth a look.
 
originally postedby by tjoneslo
I would find it difficult to believe a well equipped rescue team couldn't patch the hull breaches and provide enough atmosphere to safely open the bridge door.
True enough, but remember this is a rescue mission. They don’t always have all the time in the world... galaxy.. whatever! And there is no guarantee that there’s enough of the hull left to patch.
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originally postedby by theSea
Also keep in mind that even explosive decompression to total vacuum is not a 'BANG! you're dead' situation.
Actually it could be. If you inhaled just before the BANG! your lungs would explode. :eek: Pressure inside, suddenly no pressure outside and, POP!
 
Hi,

what would You think of rescue drones or robots.
Propulsed by air cushion or g-elements, these "helpers" could to used to provide first aid and e.g. primary oxygen supply even under difficult conditions.
If the design is small enough and if they were equipped with a special toolset they could even use smaller access points or create their own access.

Anybody willing to provide a few design suggestions...?

Regards,

Mert
 
Anybody willing to provide a few design suggestions...?
hm ... maybe something like self-propelled enclosed litters with manipulatory arms. grab the person, stuff them inside, pressurize.
 
Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Propulsed by air cushion
Perhaps not the best choice for use in vacuum or zero g... </font>[/QUOTE]AC would work in (zero-G AND NOT not vacuum).
It might also work well in zero-G and vacuum, if a propulsion material is carried in a special tank or if power source by-products could be used.

But thinking it over, will standard g-modules work in zero-g ? I fear not.
So I would have to rely on a reaction based form of thrust....

Regards,

Mert
 
Hi,

tiny translation trouble....

So please be patient, Mr. Boulton


I thougth of "air nozzle propulsion" (?) when writing "air cushion".
O.K. what I exactly mean is propulsion by controlled exhaustion of a gasous reaction mass.
What is the correct english term for that ?

Regards,

Mert
 
Ah, I see. I forgive you - your English is a damn sight better than my German!

"Compressed air jets" is probably the phrase you want. This is fine in zero-g, but useless if there's gravity, so you'll need another method of propulsion.

Thruster plates might work, but I'm not sure how small you can make them.
 
Hi,

guess I haf tu mak litl morr miss tayk tu bee rekoknizet as a non mower lenguedge english spiekr


Well, Andrew I try to improve. But as Jeff Zeitlin told me in a chat recently, I have to watch out for phrases in the lists and forums, which cannot be found in any dictionary...


O.K. lets take it all together:
In a zero-g environment we might use "Compressed air jets" (thanks for the term) quite well.
In a non zero g-environment, we might use g-modules (just like a gravbelt).
Just one question left:
Could one use a contra g-module in an artifical gravity field, like that one working on a starsship ?

Nevertheless, could anyone really provide a possible robot design ?
Unfortunately I have got no Traveller robot design stuff :( .

Regards,

Mert
 
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