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IRIS information

In which book or supplement and in which variation of Traveller [MT? TNE? T4?] was this career first introduced? Can anyone direct me to the generation tables?

Having seen some characters which were created by this system, IMNSHO, the characters seem a bit out of balance and tend to be "super" characters but that is just based on seeing the finished result and not the generation tables, the requirements to enlist, or the survival rate.

Are there other more reasonable generation systems for spies. ["intelligence officers" if that is more pleasing] [I liked the halfhearted attempt that Rebellion Sourcebook made at flashing out the intelligence services of the various factions but it didn't go quite far enough. OTOH, it was vague enough for various refs to incorporate with out disrupting individual game quirks.]
 
IRIS began as a MegaTraveller variant in Challenge Magazine which ran the history and Character Generation tables.

It later became quasi cannon as it was recognized for playing a role in Survival Margin. But, there are many interpetations and contraversaries whether such an agency really existed in that volume.

Clearly, it was Traveller's answer to the Illuminati craze and having a Star Chamber is always good for ones campaign.
 
Can IRIS be used as a model for lower-level stuff?
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I'm not sure what you mean be this? Lower than what?
 
secretagent wrote:

"In which book or supplement and in which variation of Traveller [MT? TNE? T4?] was this career first introduced? Can anyone direct me to the generation tables?"


Mr. Agent,

IRIS first appeared in a 'Challenge' article. Any Traveller bibliography can provide the actual issue number. The IRIS chargen and background article appeared first and then a few IRIS adventures ("Green Hills of Earth"?) were published in later issues.

"Having seen some characters which were created by this system, IMNSHO, the characters seem a bit out of balance and tend to be "super" characters but that is just based on seeing the finished result and not the generation tables, the requirements to enlist, or the survival rate."

Let me be blunt; the IRIS chargen produced PCs that were a munchkin's delight. While high power charecters can be played 'correctly' by some players and GMs, most merely use them to engage in uber-munchkin fantasies - not that there's anything wrong with that, roleplaying is make believe after all, but Traveller has always been about a bit more than providing munchkin fodder.

The author of the IRIS variant article later served for a time as GDW's Traveller line editor. He used the opportunity to 'uplift' IRIS into canonicity, over the objections of most of Our Olde Hobby. When MT exited stage right and TNE took its turn in the footlights, the TNE line editor quickly wrote IRIS out of the picture in the best way possible; he made a joke out of them.

One of IRIS' supposed purposes was to check the bona fides of all candidates for the Iridium Throne. If you keep that primary IRIS function firmly in mind, the multi-faction Rebellion and its several rival claimants seems rather odd. As Strephon says in 'The Survival Margin' while sending the IRIS buffoons on Usdiki packing; "You'd think I would have heard of these guys before!"

IIRC, IRIS' uplift from variant to canon and subsequent dismissal as naught but a joke took place in fewer than three years.

"Are there other more reasonable generation systems for spies. ["intelligence officers" if that is more pleasing] [I liked the halfhearted attempt that Rebellion Sourcebook made at flashing out the intelligence services of the various factions but it didn't go quite far enough. OTOH, it was vague enough for various refs to incorporate with out disrupting individual game quirks.]"

G:Traveller has a few templates; one deals with diplomats and the other with undercover agents. Even if you don't play GURPS the templates may give you some idea of what skills various types of agents may employ. I feel certain that the T20 folks must be busy beavering away on a 'spy' class as the charecter type is just too much fun to play. The feats list for that class will be fun to look over! Finally, the extended Army and Navy chargens in CT have intelligence schools.

Have you considered the idea that spies may be 'ordinary' PCs? The charecter may be generated using a belter, merchant, or other chargen but the player is actually a spy. Give the PC an otherwise odd skill or two; intrusion, interrogation, streetwise, etc., by GM fiat as part of their espionage 'training'. Merchant shipping patterns, money flows, and all sorts of other 'mundane' information can be gold in the hands of the proper analyst and collecting such data would not require IRIS types.


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
IRIS was an abomination against God and man.

Thankfully I'm no longer bitter. . .
 
May it please you my Lords,

when Charles Gannon (IIRC) wrote IRIS it was a not so secret fact that DGP were planning that 'the real Strephon' was a cyborg. IRIS could act without the problem of Strephon not knowing about them coz he was a cousin of AB101 and those deoderant bottles that move around Research Station Gamma.

When TNE came out Strephon became flesh and blood again and the lacuna was opened up.

BTW with hindsight I agree that IRIS sucked. At the time they were quite good evil NPC who found someway to interfere with players without becoming toast too quickly. But in the long run, they were a symptom of MT's problem with being a war without end.
 
Reading threads like this one remind me why I'm glad I never invested the time or the money to keep up with Traveller in all of its incarnations after CT.
 
Mr. Whipsnade,

Good to see you again. Excellent comments and I agree in your conclusions. I do not have and havr decided not to incorporate IRIS IMTU. A few more thoughts....

Let me be blunt; the IRIS chargen produced PCs that were a munchkin's delight.

Indeed. James Bond commando nobles with psi powers apparently. One or two per sector is practically too much.

"... but Traveller has always been about a bit more than providing munchkin fodder."

Yes. That's why it's worth playing to me.

"He used the opportunity to 'uplift' IRIS into canonicity, over the objections of most of Our Olde Hobby."

Sort of the game designer's version of taking advantage of a woman in a coma. [See the overblown "Kill Bill"] In which MT book was IRIS made legitimate --if you know?

"the TNE line editor quickly wrote IRIS out of the picture in the best way possible; he made a joke out of them."

Not too hard to do I imagine. Was this in Survival Margin?

"G:Traveller has a few templates; one deals with diplomats and the other with undercover agents."

Interesting...2 characters types that I have always enjoyed playing and sadly Diplomats have been dropped from T-5 -- but that is another topic altogether...

"Even if you don't play GURPS the templates may give you some idea of what skills various types of agents may employ."

Another book to buy. The family will be thrilled.

"charecter type is just too much fun to play."

Of course.

'The feats list for that class will be fun to look over! Finally, the extended Army and Navy chargens in CT have intelligence schools."

I used those intelligence schools lists for years but there is not a good way to move someone into those branches absent "support" or "technical" but even those branches are more about building computer skills and the like. I decided at some point the Recruiting skill was essential and added that to those schools.

"Have you considered the idea that spies may be 'ordinary' PCs? The charecter may be generated using a belter, merchant, or other chargen but the player is actually a spy. Give the PC an otherwise odd skill or two; intrusion, interrogation, streetwise, etc., by GM fiat as part of their espionage 'training'.'

Yes I have done that for recruited agents and it has a much more realistic flavor that ubermunchjinism. As I posted in the Scout section -- I will use split rolls on Diplomat and Rogue...that produces some great characters with the right mix of skills but not too many. Rogue by itself alos produces some very good "spy characters because of the "underworld" nature of spies.

So basically who needs IRIS? I was really more curious to see how this excessive character group was introduced into an otherwise lever headed game...

[PS. Even the SOLSEC chargen makes 10 times more sense than IRIS.]
 
secretagent kindly posted:

"Good to see you again. Excellent comments and I agree in your conclusions. I do not have and havr decided not to incorporate IRIS IMTU. A few more thoughts...."


Mr. Agent,

Thank you, sir. I've stumbled into a travelling job that cuts into my Travelling time!

I should point out that while an IRIS agent is a perfectly wretched or uber-munchkin's choice for a player charecter, the same agent can make for a superb non-player charecter with which to bedevil your players with. Such a NPC would require great handling, but would also provide great sessions.

IRIS per se is not IMTU either. Since the very beginning, there always have been Imperial intelligence agency officers with psionic powers IMTU. TNE's 'Regency Sourcebook', and other official publications I do not know of, made that type of agent canoncial.

My trouble with IRIS lays partially with the 'psionic James Bond' charecters the chargen produced and partially with the claim that IRIS operates without oversight. Top to bottom, IRIS is unknown to all other Imperial agencies. Even the Emperor knows nothing of them and this despite their 'heir checking' function.

"Sort of the game designer's version of taking advantage of a woman in a coma. [See the overblown "Kill Bill"] In which MT book was IRIS made legitimate --if you know?"

Ouch! What a metaphor! ;) IIRC correctly, IRIS was 'canonized' first in the Challebge's TNS News Briefs. 'Survival Margin' was both IRIS' first product appearence and IRIS' last product appearence.

"Interesting...2 characters types that I have always enjoyed playing and sadly Diplomats have been dropped from T-5 -- but that is another topic altogether..."

That is very disappointing news.

"So basically who needs IRIS? I was really more curious to see how this excessive character group was introduced into an otherwise level headed game..."

IRIS and its chargen is far too "high falutin' " for any PC use. Using IRIS as a template of sorts for powerful NPCs may be useful. I've never used any chargens at all for that type of NPC; unlike run-of-the-mill NPCs. I always handcraft a nemesis or patron of that caliber.


Sincerely,
Larsen
 
Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
Ouch! What a metaphor! ;) IIRC correctly, IRIS was 'canonized' first in the Challebge's TNS News Briefs. 'Survival Margin' was both IRIS' first product appearence and IRIS' last product appearence.
[/QB]
Hi Larsen,

Actually, IRIS can be found mentioned in Hard Times. On page 16, under Margaret's Domain, can be found reference to IRIS legitimising her claim to the throne. I haven't gotten any further in the book yet (just got it from eBay), so I don't know if it shows up any more.

Quite fortuitous that I was reading it today, I think...

Shane
 
IRIS is mentioned repeatedly in Hard Times -- as legitimizing Margaret's claim, as denying Lucan's and the Real Strephon's claims, and once or twice more IIRC. This shouldn't be surprising, since the author of Hard Times (Chuck Gannon) also created IRIS...
 
Originally posted by T. Foster:
IRIS is mentioned repeatedly in Hard Times -- as legitimizing Margaret's claim, as denying Lucan's and the Real Strephon's claims, and once or twice more IIRC. This shouldn't be surprising, since the author of Hard Times (Chuck Gannon) also created IRIS...
Yeah, but the nice thing about the Survival Margin fix was that all the various incidents of IRIS mouthing off remained perfectly canonical, they just became a scam perpetrated by an ambitious intel wienie. A beautiful retcon.


Hans
 
Originally posted by rancke:
Yeah, but the nice thing about the Survival Margin fix was that all the various incidents of IRIS mouthing off remained perfectly canonical, they just became a scam perpetrated by an ambitious intel wienie. A beautiful retcon.


Hans
I thought it was a bunch of spy-boys who got together and tried to set themselves up as power-brokers. A beautiful scam if it had worked, but when it didn't they just added to the wreckage.
 
"Even if you don't play GURPS the templates may give you some idea of what skills various types of agents may employ."

Another book to buy. The family will be thrilled.

"charecter type is just too much fun to play."

Of course.

'The feats list for that class will be fun to look over! Finally, the extended Army and Navy chargens in CT have intelligence schools."

I'm looking to Spycraft as well for ideas on an Intelligence Officer/Spy class I intend to make.

Motive:
My (T20) Players just started a campaign in the Solomani Rim, and sooner or later are going to bump into SolSec.
file_22.gif


Despasian
 
<off-topic>
A few posts back, someone mentioned the disappearance of the Diplomat career from T5.

T5 dropped several potentially good career types in order to manage complexity, I think. However, the ones dropped tended to be careers centered on a skill rather than a job. And so "Life Pursuits" was created to allow a matrix of career with calling, so to speak.

That allows a level of specialization within (and beyond) an otherwise typical career path.

Thus a PC can be a Naval Diplomat, or a Noble Diplomat... or even (I suppose) a Rogue Diplomat -- is that like a consigliere?
 
Originally posted by rancke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by T. Foster:
IRIS is mentioned repeatedly in Hard Times -- as legitimizing Margaret's claim, as denying Lucan's and the Real Strephon's claims, and once or twice more IIRC. This shouldn't be surprising, since the author of Hard Times (Chuck Gannon) also created IRIS...
Yeah, but the nice thing about the Survival Margin fix was that all the various incidents of IRIS mouthing off remained perfectly canonical, they just became a scam perpetrated by an ambitious intel wienie. A beautiful retcon.


Hans
</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, and people are usually so hard on Dave Nilsen. . .
 
I'm looking to Spycraft as well for ideas on an Intelligence Officer/Spy class I intend to make.
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I should send you a message as have been fiddling witht is for a while to create such a class.
 
A few posts back, someone mentioned the disappearance of the Diplomat career from T5.

T5 dropped several potentially good career types in order to manage complexity, I think. However, the ones dropped tended to be careers centered on a skill rather than a job. And so "Life Pursuits" was created to allow a matrix of career with calling, so to speak.

That allows a level of specialization within (and beyond) an otherwise typical career path.

Thus a PC can be a Naval Diplomat, or a Noble Diplomat... or even (I suppose) a Rogue Diplomat -- is that like a consigliere?
================================================
That was me and I actually e-mailed the T-5 website and Marc Miller about it. He was kind enough to throw back a quick reply...I would paste his answer here but I'm not sure if that is good ettiquette ...He basically said something similar to waht you wrote...that one could have a life pursuit as a diplomat ...fair enough I guess but then one has to craft ranks....

Actually if one has a copy of Pocket Empires there is a T-5ish table for Diplomats and Bureaucrats that works very well with T-5.

I have made some interesting characters by taking Nobles and General or Flag Rank officers and running them through Diplomat careers...
 
I have said it before but I loving playing the MT/CT diplomat - I find that they have a better skill range than the noble class and make a great vehicle for counterbalancing the grunt characters favoured by most players.

In my view the only weapons a diplomat has is shotgun (for shooting parties with heads of state) and foil (fencing).

IMO Admin seems to be one of the most effective Traveller skills in the written adventures and one that people ignore.

Unless of course, we are talking about soviet or Iranian style 'diplomats' and then FGMP15 and integral laser pistol smuggled in attache case.
 
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