Info on Smuggling and criminality
- Thread starter BlindGuy
- Start date
Do you think the government would impose an import tax of more than 300% on first aid kits and an export tax of more than 100% on foodstuff?1 Because otherwise it would be much easier to land in the starport and trade like a normal person.
1 Figures may be the result of miscalculations, but I hope you get the drift.
Hans
I was just thinking that Jamaica does impose an exorbitant import tax to keep currency in the country.
Since the world they were looking at is an amber zone, something is going on.
I wondered if it might be more of a command economy thing ... Like the old USSR where the shelves were empty in the government price controlled stores, but the black market stalls were full. IIRC there was some church encouraged price fixing in medieval guilds and this world is a religious dictatorship.
Personally, I find the regular Classic Traveller speculative trade rules to be a money factory as it is, so I see little need for significant rules on black market economics ... But a black market/criminal campaign is what the OP is looking for and, after seeing 'The Godfather', I see no reason to rain on his parade.
So as long as the results fall within the 'possible' range of the existing trade rules, where's the harm in hand waving some excuses to make it illegal trade.
A feature of Mongoose Traveller that I really liked was the ability to use different skills to locate cargo and trade goods from a variety of sources.
Streetwise could get you black market buyers and sellers.
Computer could get you into the hacker world ... but probably not on a TL 6 world.
Excellent point.
I should probably start a separate thread for my trade system questions, lest this stray too far off topic. Is it hijacking if the OP does it? 
Chuck Anumia
SOC-14 1K
This is a Game
2. What is your take (view point) on Star Vikings?
3. How else can a person with a smuggler character play that role in this game?
4. Did I advocate anywhere on these forums that people here go out in real life and act against the laws of their country?
Perhaps my views are shaded by my experiences in the US Military before I went to seminary.
I have always considered attempting to throw off the shackles of despotism and tyranny to be an honorable undertaking while those in government see it as rebellion, treason and insurrection and worthy of imprisonment or even death.
1. Have you read the TNE sourcebook?
2. What is your take (view point) on Star Vikings?
3. How else can a person with a smuggler character play that role in this game?
4. Did I advocate anywhere on these forums that people here go out in real life and act against the laws of their country?
Perhaps my views are shaded by my experiences in the US Military before I went to seminary.
I have always considered attempting to throw off the shackles of despotism and tyranny to be an honorable undertaking while those in government see it as rebellion, treason and insurrection and worthy of imprisonment or even death.
I was thinking about the regular trade rules and the goal of creating a smuggling campaign.Excellent point.
What if you substituted Streetwise skill for the Broker skill in the regular trade rules?
Each level of Streetwise gets you deeper into the criminal hierarchy to land more profitable deals.
The speculative trade rules could apply to striking out on your own.
The Freight rules could apply to more of a middle man operation, like a bootlegger.
Trade doesn't have to be trade ...
... buying stolen goods
... collections for a protection racket
... a big heist (the money spent is the cost to finance the robbery)
I'm just trying to brainstorm ideas.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Yes, I have read and actually own the TNE source book. and intensely dislike the game. I will not post my view of the Star Vikings, but it is negative.
I was expressing my viewpoint, you can run your game any way that you wish. I do not tolerate criminal activity in any game that I run.
I too was in the military prior to attending seminary. It appears that our viewpoints are distinctly different. You appear to have the Augustinian view that it is acceptable to meddle in another country's affairs if you perceive them wrong. I do not hold that view in the least.
Awesome! I had a similar idea awhile back and figured that folks wouldn't like it because it changed the setting so much. But an evil Imperium makes for great fodder for campaigns!
I don't hold with the view that it is acceptable to let other people commit wrongs if you are in a position to stop them just because they're living in another country any more than I find it acceptable to turn a blind eye to domestic abuse just because it's being committed in a neighboring house.
And I see no more harm in people roleplaying morally ambiguous people or people who break unfair laws than in children playing cops and robbers. Or playing thoroughly evil people either, although I wouldn't care to referee or participate in the last kind of game.
Hans
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
As I have said, I run the game the way I wish, and you can do anything that your heart desires.
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
Ask any cop about going to a domestic dispute call. Frequently what happens is while trying to separate the two, the officers find themselves on the receiving end of a lot of crap from both sides.
Throw differing cultural/religious/political norms into the mix, and you have a recipe for a disaster.
Its sounds great on paper, but you find yourself hated as a bully by all sides. You end up giving others a right to interfere in your domestic or internal affairs, which can lead to destructive result. If you fail to achieve a satisfactory result, you end up looking weak and stupid, which just invites attacks. If you succeed easily, you are a bully.
Your first and foremost duty is to you, and yours. While I believe it is commendable to help the helpless, sadly, when dealing with sophants, one must be extremely careful. Your "help" will often be taken as "Neo-colonial meddling" "Capitalistic oppression" or some other word salad to make you the bad guy.
The best you can do is block them from harming you, and interfere when they are a threat to you and your allies. While you want to do more, you don't want to cut your own throat in the process.
I did hope to avoid this line of reasoning by including the proviso "if you are in a position to stop it". It is not relevant that some wrongdoing can be difficult or impossible to prove; that doesn't make the wrongdoing right. And it doesn't relieve good men from the obligation to put a stop to it if they can.
It's not all right to put a child to death for dishonoring the family. It's not all right to beat someone up for "dissing you". It's not all right to kill a girlfriend for insulting your machismo. It's not all right to bash, jail, or kill someone for being gay. It's not all right to keep another person in slavery. It's not all right to put a son to death for being a coward. It's not all right to put a child to death for being rude to its parents. And the fact that all of these acts have been or still are legal and culturally acceptable at some times and places do not make them right.
Some acts are just wrong even if they take place in another country, the law allows them, or the perpetrator has been raised to believe that they are perfectly acceptable. Cultural relativism only goes so far.
Hans
Count me out on the political discussion, unless you want to take it to the Pit.
As far as criminal activity in games, here was my statement for SBRD:
So, if action can be justified as "Robin Hood" or "Rebellion Against Evil" or even "Revenge or Evening the Score Against Evil Entities", that's OK. I guess a simpler statement would be that I am more concerned with morals than legalities. If it would be Evil in a fantasy game, then I don't want the PCs doing it in a game that I am GMing.
As far as criminal activity in games, here was my statement for SBRD:
I really don't want to GM a hardcore criminal gang like pirates or assassins, or really any group that would get an "Evil" alignment in a fantasy game.
That doesn't exclude breaking the occasional law in a good cause, or even somewhat shady behavior as LiNeNoIse put it - and any Free Trader will tell you that smuggling isn't really a crime.
Edit: And of course if you are helping some rebel group against an evil government, that government would certainly call you criminals, but I wouldn't. Oh well, I'm sure you get the idea.
So, if action can be justified as "Robin Hood" or "Rebellion Against Evil" or even "Revenge or Evening the Score Against Evil Entities", that's OK. I guess a simpler statement would be that I am more concerned with morals than legalities. If it would be Evil in a fantasy game, then I don't want the PCs doing it in a game that I am GMing.
True but irrelevant. You expressed an opinion that had nothing to do with your game or mine. I expressed an opinion that had nothing to do with my game or yours.
Hans
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
Having the physical power to stop an action does not preclude the destructive blowback that always occurs any time you get involved. You can argue that one should do it regardless of the personal consequences, and in most cases I would love to agree. But the end result is too often being punished and villified for your noble intentions. People turn on you. Good deeds get punished.
There you go imposing your own views of morality on other people, imperialist oppressors. :devil:
Cultural relativism is a dead end. It is a belief structure that is self destructive. It allows anti-relativist dissent to fester and overwhelm. It is sometimes fun to look at philosophical ideas as if they were creatures in an ecosystem.
Some folks do draw a line between what is legal and what is moral. The trick is finding a set of morals you can get everyone to at least say they agree on. You can decry the other nation's laws, cultures, and belief until you are blue in the face. And you can even be completely and totally right. That is not going to stop them or change their mind. That is not going stop the blowback or attacks you will suffer, whether you are successful or not.
Certainly. Whose views should I impose on other people if not my own?
You can decry your neighbor's belief in having the right to beat up his wife every saturday, need it or not, until you are blue in the face, without getting him to stop. That doesn't mean it's wrong to stop him by force.
Hans
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
What is to prevent them from doing the same to you?
In most municipalities, at minimum, it is simple assault. If your use of force results in a death, that's murder. Laws vary from place to place enough that defense of others is a dicey proposition at best.
Even if you just call the cops on him, he'll figure out you ratted him out, and that can have unpleasant consequences. Why creat a threat to yourself that did not exist before?