IN Auxiliary Q-Ship

[BruceEdwinMorrow]

I'm toying with the idea of having the IN develop a program for Naval Auxiliary Q-Ships, to help deter pirates. I wanted to see if others thought this to be viable, or if there are good reasons this wouldn't happen.

Basically, the Navy would offer to convert standard merchant ships into light duty Q-Ships, using surplus weapon systems and older model computer systems. The Navy would approach reputable small lines, or independent merchants of trustworthy character (former Imperial Officers, Minor Nobles, etc.).

The crew would be trained, and receive refresher training annually. The Navy would pick up annual maintenance on the ship. Weapon systems would be pop-up when possible, to preserve the element of surprise. There would also be a placement program to put Aux Q-Ship Captains in contact with highly qualified retired IN Gunners who have honorably left Navy service.

The crew would have their Imperial weapon permits upgraded to bump them from paramilitary small arms to military small arms weapons, permit them to obtain ACRs, Gauss Weapons, etc. A second transponder would be installed, allowing the ship to identify its self as IN Aux during combat operations.

So, a few turrets full of weapons, an upgraded computer with software, and a few new additions to the ship's locker. In exchange, six weeks of training a year at IN base while the ship is down for maintenance. Oh, and a brochure explaining the various rewards offer for capturing, disabling, or destroying known pirate vessels.

Benefits for the IN include; something to do with those decades old weapons that won’t quite pass a rigorous Navy inspection, annual check ins from a potential wartime mobilization force that has been pre-equipped for the mission, and of course, piracy deterrence. Effectively, this is the starship version of a concealed carry permit.

More Q-Ships in the field is a good thing, and Aux Q-Ships would have the added benefit of ‘living their cover’. They would still be working the lanes and serving as traders, where as most Q-ships are dedicated to patrol since they are manned by active duty Naval personnel.

All merchants benefit from reduced piracy, and for those in the program, it offers a chance to defend against pirate attacks on a more equal footing. Conversion will displace 2-5 tons for equipment, but ships may be able to recuperate that loss thanks to the added ability to carry mail and/or security cargo.

Would something like this be viable in IYTU?

 

[Foxroe]

This is a great idea for a campaign.

Be sure that the rewards equal the risks for the crews of the Q-ships; maybe throw in some sort of hazardous duty pay. Hopefully the ship conversion won't have a significant impact on the merchant's ability to sub/spec cargo.

The Navy would also have to be doing some pre-program risk/return-on-investment analysis, as well as analysis following implementation of the program. What is the likelihood of Q-ships falling into the hands of pirates and themselves becoming corsairs? Will the reduction in piracy outweigh the significant cost to be invested in the program?

Just some thoughts.

EDIT: Acually, this is very doable. I would just keep the program very small and more mission-oriented rather than as a simple fishing expedition. It may be wise to insert an IN rep into the crew to keep everyone honest (and as part of the refit, the Navy has secretly placed a self-destruct mechanism should the ship be captured... :devil.

-Fox

 

[Gray Lensman]

Back when I was originally playing someone (I cannot remember who) did publish something on a Q-Ship. I believe it was based on the 400 DT Sub Merchant.

 

[tbeard1999]

Would something like this be viable in IYTU?

I love it. May I shamelessly steal it for an article for my Traveller zine? Due credit will be given, of course.

 

[robject]

Hoowah! I smell an article for Stellar Reaches...

 

[BruceEdwinMorrow]

I love it. May I shamelessly steal it for an article for my Traveller zine? Due credit will be given, of course.

Sure, but please include Michael Taylor on any credit. His adventure, "The Forgotten War" was my inspiration.. hehe

Fox: I was thinking either that the Aux ID Transponder (which is set to activate automatically when ship's weapons systems are fired) is tied into the ship's computer and removes all offensive programs when it recives a special classified squawk code available IN patrol vessels. Or the anti-hijack program is modified to purge the transponder and mainframe if the ship is captured. So not quite a self destruct, but almost as damaging in the middle of combat.

 

[boomslang]

I'm toying with the idea of having the IN develop a program for Naval Auxiliary Q-Ships, to help deter pirates. I wanted to see if others thought this to be viable, or if there are good reasons this wouldn't happen.

<snip>

Would something like this be viable in IYTU?

I'd think IMTU you'd want to custom-build your primary Qs, and crew them with regular Navy (and Marine) personnel; since a good Q-ship is packing enough weaponry to cut into its available payload space, and since that weaponry will be need to be heavy enough to take out corsairs, you're going to at the very least do extensive background checks and maybe station a Naval attaché aboard to help the crew resist the temptations of privateering or tradewar.

Also, you'll probably want to slap some armor on her hull to give her some staying power in a firefight, and that means a scratchbuild. The need to have a drive signature similar to that of the low-performance mimicked vessel will limit the power available, and that means a heavy reliance upon missiles. And since you're looking at missiles, you'll want to think about nukes -- and those mustn't be in civilian hands..

OTOH, from a more civilian-centric Auxiliary-Q perspective, IMTU we like the battlefield meson accelerator as a boarding-range surprise for our would-be capturers: it takes less displacement than a stateroom, runs on a modest electrical input, and at 50km or less does damage like a spinal mount factor-A m-gun. You'll want VRF Gauss guns on pintle mounts, too; that'll "repel boarders" with ruthless efficiency... some rapid-fire battlefield energy weapons are a good investment, as well. None of this stuff helps at space combat ranges; the standard ruse for these girls is to feign surrender, and then hose the space pirates when they try to claim their "easy" prize... now that might be a role-playing setup that would be easy to keep from getting out of hand...

Makes a novel idea for a mercenary ticket, too -- now that I think about it...

 

[BruceEdwinMorrow]

My first thoughts were along these lines as well. Give the Auxiliary Q-Ships a military weapons permit and upgrade their ship's locker so they have plenty of firepower to repel boarders. A standard gauss rifle on full auto is pretty nasty, all things considered. VRF mounts would just be murderous.

The Aux Q ship runs for a bit at the first sign of a pirate, and then heaves to once they catch up to it. It’s pretty much what the pirates are expecting from an unarmed merchant.

The problem I had with just supplying only personal weapons is that once you kill the boat full of pirates, you still have a 300-400 ton corsair sitting in space next to you, and it is armed to the gills. They are going to punish you for resistance.

That's when your two pop turrets come out, filled with pulse lasers and missiles.

I don't see the Aux Q-Ships as eliminating an enemy corsair on a consistent basis. They aren't going to counter board an enemy ship. They are more a tool of deterrence and attrition. The Corsair will probably limp away from the fight, but it should be moderately to heavily damaged, and missing a half to a dozen or so ship’s troops and crew. And a damaged pirate ship doesn't get to pull into just any Class A,B, or C starport and start making repairs. It could be weeks or months before they get back to a friendly port.

The Q ship gets repaired at Navy expense at any naval installation and the mission is marked successful.

In a battle of attrition, the Imperium is at an advantage. At least that is my take.

 

[boomslang]

The problem I had with just supplying only personal weapons is that once you kill the boat full of pirates, you still have a 300-400 ton corsair sitting in space next to you, and it is armed to the gills. They are going to punish you for resistance.

That's what the BFMA is for; vaporize his mothership's powerplant and then cut down his boarders with the VRFGGs before they step out of your airlocks.

"Murderous", indeed. Probably oughta get that Letter of Marque and Reprisal notarized for good measure, Cap'n.

:devil:

MTU is probably a little darker than YTU, that's all...

 

[BruceEdwinMorrow]

That's what the BFMA is for; vaporize his mothership's powerplant and then cut down his boarders with the VRFGGs before they step out of your airlocks.

"Murderous", indeed. Probably oughta get that Letter of Marque and Reprisal notarized for good measure, Cap'n.

:devil:

MTU is probably a little darker than YTU, that's all...

I'm interested in this, but doesn't the crew size of BFMA preclude it's use in this role?

 

[boomslang]

I'm interested in this, but doesn't the crew size of BFMA preclude it's use in this role?

I figure after they put a salvo or two into the corsair mothership, the dozen or so crew manning the BFMA can unsling their laser carbines and snubmachineguns and take up support positions as troops backing the pintle gunners.

For properly pwning a corsair band, I'd want at least two squads of personnel beyond my own vessel's skeleton crew; IMO, it's not about simply driving the corsair off -- it's about taking the vessel for a prize and the outlaws for the bounties...

Twenty-some "passengers"; that's a pretty good roster for a typical liner, for example... if you're uncomfortable with that many on the payroll, you can always build a robot crew for the artillery -- in fact, it's probably an ideal application for a master/slave robo setup. With some creative engineering, you could pack the whole kit and caboodle cozily into one faux stateroom, I'll bet... and then just hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign on the door.

 

[Foxroe]

I would also keep in mind that pirates are people too (so to speak).

As in real life, this would become a "war" of escalation. As soon as the pirates catch on to the IN's Q-ship tactics, they'll develop a counter-strategy of their own. The simplest of which will be to avoid boarding action or close range ship-to-ship combat, and pummel the Q-ship from afar. This would most likely be an action out of spite, considering that they would have lost many brethren to a savage Q-ship program. It would no longer be about gaining a prize; it would be all about revenge.

And I'm sure they would eventually find a few BFMA's and gauss support weapons of their own on the black-market... :smirk:

-Fox

 

[BruceEdwinMorrow]

I would also keep in mind that pirates are people too (so to speak).

As in real life, this would become a "war" of escalation. As soon as the pirates catch on to the IN's Q-ship tactics, they'll develop a counter-strategy of their own. The simplest of which will be to avoid boarding action or close range ship-to-ship combat, and pummel the Q-ship from afar. This would most likely be an action out of spite, considering that they would have lost many brethren to a savage Q-ship program. It would no longer be about gaining a prize; it would be all about revenge.

And I'm sure they would eventually find a few BFMA's and gauss support weapons of their own on the black-market... :smirk:

-Fox

Why do you rob banks, Willy? Cause that’s where the money is!

They can't stand off. They have to close. That's where the looooooot!!! is.

All warfare is deception. How will they know who is a Q-ship, and who is not? Especially if the Q-ship is living it's cover.

I'm not saying they won't adapt. But stand-off isn't a tactic they can use.

 

[boomslang]

Why do you rob banks, Willy? Cause that’s where the money is!

They can't stand off. They have to close. That's where the looooooot!!! is.

I concur. The goal of the corsair is to board the target; Navy commerce raiders have the luxury of simply blasting the target to smithereens, but pirates want the vessel and/or her payload as intact as possible. (Ironically, this makes particle accelerator weapons a preferred corsair tool: try to fry the crew and leave the hull and drives largely unscathed. Probably want to bring the Imperial Rules of War in at that point and restrict legal ownership of PAWs to "responsible" registered paramilitaries.)

IMTU, there is also an IR Flare missile available; combined with a constantly-replenished sand cloud, these can allow a coasting or slow vessel to withstand enemy bombardment for some time. And the longer a firefight lasts, the more likely the prey is to reach either Jump altitude or the cover of planetary defenses. The corsair must close and board promptly; and if the target M-drive is still operational, that may even mean leap-boarding. (I tend to aim for the fuel tanks when disabling, since if dry they shut all ship systems down yet they are trivial to repair and replenish out of combat.)

Lastly, it should be noted that the BFMA is a TL15 device, and not something likely to be available as surplus (or salvage, for that matter). They will almost certainly be "loaners" to which the operator is bonded, and again, a plainclothes Naval or Marine attaché is probably part of the package. Plus, the IRoW again, you know.

FWIW, boarding actions IMTU can be summed up in two words: Warhammer 40K...

Conversely, the most appealing corsair tactic is probably hijacking; taking control of the target vessel from within so that it may be boarded with little more than small arms fire in holdout resistance. (This is probably why -- as a game feature -- low berths are so unreliable; it insures that by default the passengers are awake and underfoot and requiring constant supervision as much as possible...)

 

[far-trader]

Been following this for a bit, just some thoughts on this latest...

...Conversely, the most appealing corsair tactic is probably hijacking; taking control of the target vessel from within so that it may be boarded with little more than small arms fire in holdout resistance. (This is probably why -- as a game feature -- low berths are so unreliable; it insures that by default the passengers are awake and underfoot and requiring constant supervision as much as possible...)

Not just the most appealing but pretty much the only one with much chance of success. And the biggest reason such Q-ships won't really work as a tactic or deterrent. (I think the reason for the low-berth problems is to convince PCs to not travel low and miss all the excitement of the closed room mystery during the week in jump space )

Pirates just can't work by lying in wait for a Merchie to come along, surrender, and have easily fenced cargo. And you can't expect the Merchie to be willing to lose their ship too in the bargain so most will fight to the death and inflict unacceptable losses on the Pirate/Corsair in the bargain.

About the only way Piracy can work is the inside man so the ship can be neutralized without serious damage to anyone or thing. And before it comes to that you've made sure the ship you pick can be neutralized (like it isn't running an Anti-hijack program for one) and that it has a cargo worth your time. Then the Pirate ship simply becomes the transport vessel for the goods back to the fence. Said Pirate is likely to even let the Merchie keep his ship and life to better keep the authorities from getting involved and insure a continuing stock of future victims. Unless the Merchie's ship is better than the Pirate's own ship, then it's time for a trade up. Like when the Pirate ship is overdue for maintenance or has suffered too much damage. Of course the Pirates will swap some of the items, like computer upgrades and weapons, and the all important hacked transponder.

It's only the really desperate or new to the game Pirates who try the "show the flaming eye and signal them to heave to" scenario cold. There are bold Pirates, and old Pirates, but no old bold Pirates.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Q-ships, but they need to be properly thought out. For a Q-ship to work it has to be able to perfectly blend into the regular Merchie operation, including the ocassional hiring of replacement crew, shipping of real passengers and cargo, and hanging out in port like Merchies. To bait the Pirates it has to appear undefended, lax about security, and eventually ship a cargo too good for the Pirates to pass up. It will then have to allow the inside man to seize the ship and make the rendezvous with the Pirate ship. Only then can it spring it's trap, whatever that may be, in the hope to capture the Pirates.

Yes, capture. For dead Pirates can't be questioned for intelligence on all the other Pirates and most importantly their Fence.

So, no, a Q-ship who's sole purpose is to blast the Pirates to ash is no more sensible than Pirates waiting over the horizon for the Merchie to sale out of port and surrender their cargo without a fight.

 

[aramis]

Q-Ships generally were not, historically, anti-pirate.

They were anti-commerce-raider. While, from the standpoint of a merchant, there isn't much difference (you're dead or broke either way), the goals of raiders are to disrupt shipping. Pirates want to sieze cargoes and/or ships. Raiders can just destroy them.

Also, many cargoes are just as easily grabbed when the target is dead.

Take, for example, my "typical" piracy scheme. Pirate has observed, and does not put a man aboard. He simply posts course for same system at same time, and launches parallel. He then boosts to catch up by about 20 diameters, and tries really hard to KO your guns and engines with 5-10km precision shots... once you're slower, he then gives you a choice: drop cargo back at him, or be destroyed. His barbettes can do either... But, if you get lucky, and he doesn't take out those guns, and you put damage on him, he's likely to jump out on a risky jump, just like he would if he got your cargo. He'll do a J1 to deep space, then an immediate j1 again in a different direction.... Oh, and any life forms in the cargo containers dropped back (checked with an NAS) get treated to that APAWS in the barbette.

He's got about 10 minutes to get you to surrender, and 10 minutes to load., from first shot. (I use MT vehicle rules, so time is in 6min rounds. Works well in MoTrav, too...)

Longer than that, and the ground intercept can match course. Caveat: don't try this if significant PlanDef batteries are present...

A raider simply flys up, blows you to bits, and grabs what cargo they can, then leaves.

 

[boomslang]

(I think the reason for the low-berth problems is to convince PCs to not travel low and miss all the excitement of the closed room mystery during the week in jump space )

OT: And don't forget all the paper & pencil tabletop RPGing that surely goes on!

:nonono:

 

[boomslang]

Q-Ships generally were not, historically, anti-pirate.

<analysis snipped>

Which would lead us back to the idea of the fully-militarized Q-ship that simply pretends to be an ordinary merchantman when encountered under way in the shipping lanes, rather than a civilian naval auxiliary that tries to win a boarding action...

There are also probably some insurance issues involved in underwriting Aux-Q operations (since you have a commercial vessel that's actively looking for trouble), but the OTU kind of gives insurance the brushoff (except to note that megacorporations somehow issue policies and make money from them)...

 

[BruceEdwinMorrow]

Again, this is where an active merchant ship equipped for anti-piracy work would excel. They would be taking on passengers and crew. They would be subject to pre-attack surveillance that some pirate outfits would conduct.

This is where an IN crewed, standard Q-Ship would fall short and would be detected and simply avoided.

As for fighting to the death over cargo, the point of this program would be to give them something to fight to the death with.

Even if you have a well equipped ship’s locker, and combat trained crew, killing all the borders only means the Corsair picks you apart with it’s three turrets. And for the majority of ships, the costs of turrets, and weapon systems will preclude their installation.

The software alone required to target an enemy ship, launch ordnance, return fire, and interface the gunner with the weapon system is 5.5 Million Cr, which is huge compared to the 37.08 Million spent on a Free Trader. Two double turrets with 2 beams, a sand and a missile between them comes to 4 million. 9.5 million for barely adequate defense against another up gunned freighter, much less a corsair. Upgrading from a Mod 1 Mod1/bis to a Mod 2 so you can run target, return fire, and gunner interact in the same combat phase is going to run 5-7 million more.

Therefore, my supposition is that the majority of the merchant fleet is unarmed. It’s quite simply more efficient to purchase dedicated anti-piracy ships if you are a major line, like Tukera or Al Mori than to arm your individual ships. And smaller lines and independents are barely paying off the mortgages as written. They simply can not afford to install weapons on their own.

Ships either have to surrender, or start dumping the cargo. Fight to the death isn’t an option because they will be punished for killing the boarders. If you can’t offer resistance on both fronts (boarding and ship to ship) then you wont’ offer any resistance.

Keep in mind, even if you dump all your cargo the net economic effect is 82,000 per occurrence for a free trader. Unless you are involved in speculative trade, that is not/not your cargo. You give it up; you lose your 1,000 Cr/ton. Call it a piracy exclusion, cargo value declaration limit, or whatever you want. It’s the shipper’s job to declare and insure that, not the carriers.

Put a 10,000 dollar piece of jewelry in your check in luggage next time you fly and watch what happens when it gets lost. You’ll get a couple of thousand domestically and maybe 700-900 internationally. The rest you will eat while learning a hard lesson about the need to declare high value cargo and purchase supplemental insurance. Certainly the facility to do so exists somewhere in the OTU, but the maximum we can expect a carrier to be libel for an act of piracy wont’ drastically exceed 1000 Cr /ton. Shippers will be arranging directly with insurance agents if this doesn’t cover their risk. And insurance agencies will be putting pressure on the nobility to force the Navy to control piracy. It’s all about profits.

So you give up your cargo sans fight to the death. Someone else is broke (or not.. you don’t care), and maybe you are down, but not out. But if you can’t afford to lose 82K, you surely can’t justify and pay for 10 million for a weapons package. Piracy becomes a matter of run up the black flag and tell them to heave to. No inside man required. Even a lowly Scout Pirate (which appears on the Book 2 piracy table) becomes viable, because if the target ship is unarmed, they are going to give up the cargo.

In steps the might Third Imperium, ready to eat the relatively minor costs of outfitting a few merchants to bite back instead of rolling over against pirates.

PS: As for insurance issues regarding the Q-ship itself, I actually see insurers supporting this because it lowers overall piracy. It's not like there are X number of pirates and if we equip 10% of all merchants with guns they all pirates figure "well, got to go get a bigger gun now". If Piracy is easy, there will be more pirates. If the difficulty of conducting successful piracy is increased, then there will be less pirates. They will turn to something else (forgery, or heaven forbid, honest employment?). Organized criminal elements and syndicates commit crimes that are lucrative, and that they believe they can get away with. If the barrier to entry is raised, the number of people participating will decrease.

Think about drug abuse in the 70s, and drug abuse now. Some people still do it, but it’s certainly not at the same levels it was before. Mandatory drug screening, educational programs, tougher DUI laws, etc. helped curb the problem. Same for smoking in the 50s’ vs. now days.

If the penalty is harsh enough, and the probability of detection is high enough, there will be a decrease in frequency.

It's not a closed system. When the pain threshold get's high enough, pirates will turn to something else.

Or, even better, someone else. I don't have to run faster than the bear, I just have to fun faster than you. When it's easier to commit piracy against the Zhodani, Sworld Worlders, Centars, Hivers, etc. than the Imperium, that's that's where the pirates will go.

 

[atpollard]

I always liked the idea of a shipyard that made a visually distinctive 1500 dTon merchant ship. Roughly 95% of the ships had Armor-0, 5 turrets and 2 large cargo doors. One ship in 20 was externally identical but internally was heavily armored, had an upgraded computer system and had only 1 large cargo bay door – the other door hid a 100 dTon weapons Bay.

Any would-be pirate has to wonder whether any particular target is one of the 19 or the '1 in 20' version. Pirates might decide that it is better to attack some other manufacturer’s ship instead - this one has a 'reputation'.