Improved Laser Weapons

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

has anyone else noticed that even in the basic rules that the TL6 auto rifle has better armor pen than the TL9 laser rifle, weighs about half as much fully loaded and is easer to handle the only advantges are accuracy over range, lack of recoil for use in 0g and wound trama (damage) but if you score mutiple hits even the damage bounes is gone, and then if you use the book 4 weapon list it becomes even less competive compared to the TL10 ACR and the TL12 gauss rifle now I relise that later introduced (TL wise)weapons will be better but if they can improve on projectile weapons why not beam weapons prior to the introduction of plasma and fuision guns, so what I'm asking is their a listing for improved laser weapons for Classic Traveller and if so where or should i keep working on my home growen rules as i need somthing scarrier for my Joe players (for my Zhodani campain) and NPC's (in my normal campain)to use without them looking just like the imperials TO&E wise only with funny suits, after all in all the GDW adventures that have Zhodani the basic long arm is the laser rifle.

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

has anyone else noticed that even in the basic rules that the TL6 auto rifle has better armor pen than the TL9 laser rifle, weighs about half as much fully loaded and is easer to handle the only advantges are accuracy over range, lack of recoil for use in 0g and wound trama (damage) but if you score mutiple hits even the damage bounes is gone, and then if you use the book 4 weapon list it becomes even less competive compared to the TL10 ACR and the TL12 gauss rifle now I relise that later introduced (TL wise)weapons will be better but if they can improve on projectile weapons why not beam weapons prior to the introduction of plasma and fuision guns, so what I'm asking is their a listing for improved laser weapons for Classic Traveller and if so where or should i keep working on my home growen rules as i need somthing scarrier for my Joe players (for my Zhodani campain) and NPC's (in my normal campain)to use without them looking just like the imperials TO&E wise only with funny suits, after all in all the GDW adventures that have Zhodani the basic long arm is the laser rifle.

 

[Ranger]

Striker has two versions of all the Laser weapons in the equipment book, one at minimum TL and a more advanced version. Page 31 has the individual energy weapons table with TL 13 versons of all three (carbine, rifle, and pistol).

Hope it helps

 

[Ranger]

Striker has two versions of all the Laser weapons in the equipment book, one at minimum TL and a more advanced version. Page 31 has the individual energy weapons table with TL 13 versons of all three (carbine, rifle, and pistol).

Hope it helps

 

[Blue Ghost]

313; I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying. But I'll take a crack at it. Remember that all weapons gain a plus bonus on their to hit roll per tech level. That is if the TL for a LASER rifle is 9, and the firer is using a TL 13 LASER rifle, then he's got a plus 5 on his to hit roll. Of course you need to factor in the target's armor, and do the same TL deal to bring the to-hit number back up. At least that's what I recall. Most of the time we just used the basic modifiers, since most of the worlds our group visited were within one or two tech levels of one another.

So a TL 8 ACR may, potentially, be able to deliver more damage per shot to a target, but in the CT system its chances of "hitting" aren't as great as a mid-high TL LASER weapon. That and the LASER weapon has a significant advantage in range. And on the battlefield if you can see and hit your enemy before he has a chance of hitting you, then you've essentially won. That, and the LASER weapon is only significantly effected by ablative or reflective armors (including some forms of Combat Environmental Suits, and all Combat Armor and Battle Dress models... or so I recall).

Having said that our group experimented (succesfully I think) with new and different LASER weapons. I listed some of the concepts under "Do LASERs make sound" thread. As I said there I had created a number of LASER weapons to steer the group away from becoming Fusion Gun and Gauss Gun happy. The weapons I developed had plus modifier to the damage delivered, and were marginally better or inferior depending on what I wanted the weapon to do.

 

[Blue Ghost]

313; I'm not sure I really understand what you're saying. But I'll take a crack at it. Remember that all weapons gain a plus bonus on their to hit roll per tech level. That is if the TL for a LASER rifle is 9, and the firer is using a TL 13 LASER rifle, then he's got a plus 5 on his to hit roll. Of course you need to factor in the target's armor, and do the same TL deal to bring the to-hit number back up. At least that's what I recall. Most of the time we just used the basic modifiers, since most of the worlds our group visited were within one or two tech levels of one another.

So a TL 8 ACR may, potentially, be able to deliver more damage per shot to a target, but in the CT system its chances of "hitting" aren't as great as a mid-high TL LASER weapon. That and the LASER weapon has a significant advantage in range. And on the battlefield if you can see and hit your enemy before he has a chance of hitting you, then you've essentially won. That, and the LASER weapon is only significantly effected by ablative or reflective armors (including some forms of Combat Environmental Suits, and all Combat Armor and Battle Dress models... or so I recall).

Having said that our group experimented (succesfully I think) with new and different LASER weapons. I listed some of the concepts under "Do LASERs make sound" thread. As I said there I had created a number of LASER weapons to steer the group away from becoming Fusion Gun and Gauss Gun happy. The weapons I developed had plus modifier to the damage delivered, and were marginally better or inferior depending on what I wanted the weapon to do.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
Remember that all weapons gain a plus bonus on their to hit roll per tech level.

Umm, is that a house rule, or can you remember where it's written

If it is a house rule it's a good one

, a bonus or penalty to hit based on the relative TL of the weapon compared with armour.

What about against unarmoured opponents or natural armour?

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
Remember that all weapons gain a plus bonus on their to hit roll per tech level.

Umm, is that a house rule, or can you remember where it's written

If it is a house rule it's a good one

, a bonus or penalty to hit based on the relative TL of the weapon compared with armour.

What about against unarmoured opponents or natural armour?

 

[hirch duckfinder]

maybe clumsy lumps of metal do more damage to a living being than self-cauterising coherent light because of their mass ( as opposed to energy ) state .????

 

[hirch duckfinder]

maybe clumsy lumps of metal do more damage to a living being than self-cauterising coherent light because of their mass ( as opposed to energy ) state .????

 

[Blue Ghost]

Sigg Oddra; you know, I could've sworn I found that rule somewhere... I remember a friend bringing it to my attention some fifteen or seventeen years ago, but we never used it because we thought it was just too time consuming to keep track of TL differences.

Huh, I can't seem to find it now. Did we just imagine it? I wonder if I'm not misremembering it.

Maybe I read it in a JTAS or Dragon.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Sigg Oddra; you know, I could've sworn I found that rule somewhere... I remember a friend bringing it to my attention some fifteen or seventeen years ago, but we never used it because we thought it was just too time consuming to keep track of TL differences.

Huh, I can't seem to find it now. Did we just imagine it? I wonder if I'm not misremembering it.

Maybe I read it in a JTAS or Dragon.

 

[Ranger]

Blue Ghost,

It may not be official, but it sounds like a really good idea. Since armor quality is built into the CT combat to hit number, including a mod for comparative tech makes perfect sense to me. Not too dificult, just weapon tech minus armor tech equals to hit mod. Not really nessessary when you start using Striker rules that seperate to hit from penetration, but if you want to keep it CT simple, sounds good to me.

 

[Ranger]

Blue Ghost,

It may not be official, but it sounds like a really good idea. Since armor quality is built into the CT combat to hit number, including a mod for comparative tech makes perfect sense to me. Not too dificult, just weapon tech minus armor tech equals to hit mod. Not really nessessary when you start using Striker rules that seperate to hit from penetration, but if you want to keep it CT simple, sounds good to me.

 

[far-trader]

Not sure it would be such a good idea. Using examples (maxing tech) and not factoring in the range mods for simplicity...

Lets say I want a nice stylish bit of high tech fashion armor, call it TL15 Jack. So being its available at TL1 I have Jack +14 for defense. It weighs only 1kg and cost me all of Cr50. You attack me with your TL15 Auto Rifle introduced at TL6 so you have a +9 for attack. The total mods are +5 on my defense vs the weapon/armor matrix adjustment of +6 to attack for a final +1 for your attacks. I feel pretty good about that.

Now lets say you're wearing TL15 Combat Armor, introduced at TL11 so its +4 defense and I'm using my antiqued reproduction TL15 Shotgun introduced at TL4 so I have a +11 to attack. After factoring it all in again I have a +2 for my attack.

Does that feel right? I don't think it does. It might work for me if there was some sort of factor to it. Something like a minimal TL step before each improvement. Maybe every 3 full TL after introduction grants a +1 factor. Otherwise the table and classic 8+ on 2d6 system is overwhelmed by the TL mods imo.

 

[far-trader]

Not sure it would be such a good idea. Using examples (maxing tech) and not factoring in the range mods for simplicity...

Lets say I want a nice stylish bit of high tech fashion armor, call it TL15 Jack. So being its available at TL1 I have Jack +14 for defense. It weighs only 1kg and cost me all of Cr50. You attack me with your TL15 Auto Rifle introduced at TL6 so you have a +9 for attack. The total mods are +5 on my defense vs the weapon/armor matrix adjustment of +6 to attack for a final +1 for your attacks. I feel pretty good about that.

Now lets say you're wearing TL15 Combat Armor, introduced at TL11 so its +4 defense and I'm using my antiqued reproduction TL15 Shotgun introduced at TL4 so I have a +11 to attack. After factoring it all in again I have a +2 for my attack.

Does that feel right? I don't think it does. It might work for me if there was some sort of factor to it. Something like a minimal TL step before each improvement. Maybe every 3 full TL after introduction grants a +1 factor. Otherwise the table and classic 8+ on 2d6 system is overwhelmed by the TL mods imo.

 

[Ranger]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Not sure it would be such a good idea. Using examples (maxing tech) and not factoring in the range mods for simplicity...

Lets say I want a nice stylish bit of high tech fashion armor, call it TL15 Jack. So being its available at TL1 I have Jack +14 for defense. It weighs only 1kg and cost me all of Cr50. You attack me with your TL15 Auto Rifle introduced at TL6 so you have a +9 for attack. The total mods are +5 on my defense vs the weapon/armor matrix adjustment of +6 to attack for a final +1 for your attacks. I feel pretty good about that.

Now lets say you're wearing TL15 Combat Armor, introduced at TL11 so its +4 defense and I'm using my antiqued reproduction TL15 Shotgun introduced at TL4 so I have a +11 to attack. After factoring it all in again I have a +2 for my attack.

Does that feel right? I don't think it does. It might work for me if there was some sort of factor to it. Something like a minimal TL step before each improvement. Maybe every 3 full TL after introduction grants a +1 factor. Otherwise the table and classic 8+ on 2d6 system is overwhelmed by the TL mods imo.

I was thinking of comparing actual tech levels, so in your example, a TL 15 shotgun vs. a TL 15 combat armor would be a wash so zero modifier for armor versus weapon.

Or you could just set a max tech level for some more basic armor types. If there is no tech overlap, then no bonus. I would max jack armor out at TL 4 or 5, and since a Laser Rifle starts out at TL 9, you just get +1 for each tech level over 9 for the Laser Rifle regardless of the difference between the Laser and the Jack armor.

(How's that for a tap dance?)

 

[Ranger]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Not sure it would be such a good idea. Using examples (maxing tech) and not factoring in the range mods for simplicity...

Lets say I want a nice stylish bit of high tech fashion armor, call it TL15 Jack. So being its available at TL1 I have Jack +14 for defense. It weighs only 1kg and cost me all of Cr50. You attack me with your TL15 Auto Rifle introduced at TL6 so you have a +9 for attack. The total mods are +5 on my defense vs the weapon/armor matrix adjustment of +6 to attack for a final +1 for your attacks. I feel pretty good about that.

Now lets say you're wearing TL15 Combat Armor, introduced at TL11 so its +4 defense and I'm using my antiqued reproduction TL15 Shotgun introduced at TL4 so I have a +11 to attack. After factoring it all in again I have a +2 for my attack.

Does that feel right? I don't think it does. It might work for me if there was some sort of factor to it. Something like a minimal TL step before each improvement. Maybe every 3 full TL after introduction grants a +1 factor. Otherwise the table and classic 8+ on 2d6 system is overwhelmed by the TL mods imo.

I was thinking of comparing actual tech levels, so in your example, a TL 15 shotgun vs. a TL 15 combat armor would be a wash so zero modifier for armor versus weapon.

Or you could just set a max tech level for some more basic armor types. If there is no tech overlap, then no bonus. I would max jack armor out at TL 4 or 5, and since a Laser Rifle starts out at TL 9, you just get +1 for each tech level over 9 for the Laser Rifle regardless of the difference between the Laser and the Jack armor.

(How's that for a tap dance?)

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

thanks so far for the in-put I'll have to track down a replacement copy of striker as the bane of all roleplayers non (game wise) simpthatic family kind of messed with my clasic travller set years a go so i unfortanalty only got about half my once near perfict colection . but in the mean-time I'll just have to keep working on the home-brue rules

.

on a related note i once talked to a uni phisics professor and the explonasion she gave was the same as in 2300AD futher more the way she explainded how wounds would most probabaly work was (and I'm largly derect quoting hear) "that once reacting with any protective measure the incoming pulse would would then react with the intended target causing the same kind of reaction but with the added fun of the watter in our blood and tisues flash boiling all this helps half-cook the flesh around the point of explosive vaporision and help conduct the concusion from the exploision" add in the hot frafments of any armor that where sent inwoulds and the ruslting infection (if you live that long) and not only is the myth of neet cauterised wounds dispeled but you have got a even more grissily wound that is more difficalt to treat, and we know that ablat works as stated in the rules but from the same conversasion I got a good bogous rasnal for reflec as well, I'll post it if any one is intersted.

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

thanks so far for the in-put I'll have to track down a replacement copy of striker as the bane of all roleplayers non (game wise) simpthatic family kind of messed with my clasic travller set years a go so i unfortanalty only got about half my once near perfict colection . but in the mean-time I'll just have to keep working on the home-brue rules

.

on a related note i once talked to a uni phisics professor and the explonasion she gave was the same as in 2300AD futher more the way she explainded how wounds would most probabaly work was (and I'm largly derect quoting hear) "that once reacting with any protective measure the incoming pulse would would then react with the intended target causing the same kind of reaction but with the added fun of the watter in our blood and tisues flash boiling all this helps half-cook the flesh around the point of explosive vaporision and help conduct the concusion from the exploision" add in the hot frafments of any armor that where sent inwoulds and the ruslting infection (if you live that long) and not only is the myth of neet cauterised wounds dispeled but you have got a even more grissily wound that is more difficalt to treat, and we know that ablat works as stated in the rules but from the same conversasion I got a good bogous rasnal for reflec as well, I'll post it if any one is intersted.