Imperiallines #6

[agorski]

Got the email and bought a copy. Haven't read it yet but it looks good.

On a slightly side note, I noticed that the credits for the T5 Core Rules were sketchy and Imperiallines is doing the same. The individual articles aren't credited to specific authors and you can't tell who is the editor. Drives me nuts.

 

[DonM]

Rob was the main editor, and because I had health issues when the bulk of the issue was put together, the three main articles were contributions by everyone except me.

 

[AndreaV]

You can tell from the writing style

 

[rancke]

Well, there goes my view of the Imperial Scouts interdicting worlds with primitive populations to safeguard them. <sigh>.

I'm going to have to do some extensive reconstruction of my history of Regina.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

Well, there goes my view of the Imperial Scouts interdicting worlds with primitive populations to safeguard them. <sigh>.

It might have taken the IISS a few headline news worthy examples to adopt that policy. Regina was settled surprisingly early.

 

[rancke]

It might have taken the IISS a few headline news worthy examples to adopt that policy.

Quite a few canonical worlds must have been interdicted from the start (of the Imperium's interaction with them) in order to make sense. But there could be some reason for making an exception in the case of Regina. What would make the Scouts not interdict a primitive population?

Come to think of it, Robert must have had an explanation in mind when he wrote up the Amindii. Robert?

Regina was settled surprisingly early.

Indeed. My history has an expedition of nuns emigrating from a world where their rich order was being persecuted and taking with them a number of devout lay people to support them in their exile. Obviously I didn't account for a native population of non-humans (because previously published information made them non-existent), but when I found out that I would have to retcon in the Amindii, I first thought of the Scouts muffing the initial survey and overlooking these primitive forest-dwellers confined to one of the lesser continents, thus making the Sisters of St. Regina expedition unaware of their existence until they had settled there. With a TL2 population spread across much of the world, that doesn't seem very plausible.


Hans

 

[inexorabletash]

I was very pleasantly surprised to see this. Kudos to the gang who put it together. A great combination of info-dump and rules walk-through.

Looking forward to issue 7 already.

Also: retro TNS? I might have to dust off my RSS feed of canonical TNS articles.

 

[Ulsyus]

Top work guys, very good to see this come out. Great article on the Amindii and the walk through sophont creation!

 

[robject]

Rob was the main editor, and because I had health issues when the bulk of the issue was put together, the three main articles were contributions by everyone except me.

Part of my job is to make Don so insanely jealous that he'll conquer his health issues for the sole purpose of contributing to Imperiallines. But then, what happens when THAT cat is out of the bag?

 

[Ackehece]

.... I want to contribute... forget DonM

 

[GypsyComet]

thus making the Sisters of St. Regina expedition unaware of their existence until they had settled there. With a TL2 population spread across much of the world, that doesn't seem very plausible.

I doubt they were all TL2. There weren't very many of them. Even in 1105 Regina doesn't have all that many people, and 80% are Human.

At first Imperial contact, the Zhodani community probably popped up on sensors right away. While the Imperials and the Zhodani weren't blood enemies yet, their presence would likely lead the IISS to consider the cat out of the bag.

As for the Nuns of St. Regina:
"Mother Superior, our sensors are picking up campfires across many parts of the planet."
"Then just pick a spot where there aren't any, Captain."

 

[rancke]

I doubt they were all TL2. There weren't very many of them.

Article says TL2, so at least some of them were TL2. It's not the numbers so much as how easy it is to miss the signs of their existence if they have cities and farms. I did think that the People of the Forest might practice silviculture rather than agriculture, but even in forests you can spot buildings.

At first Imperial contact, the Zhodani community probably popped up on sensors right away. While the Imperials and the Zhodani weren't blood enemies yet, their presence would likely lead the IISS to consider the cat out of the bag.

The Zhodani visit must have been around -1000. That's when they were preparing the area for expansion, before the Consulate changed policy.

As for the Nuns of St. Regina:
"Mother Superior, our sensors are picking up campfires across many parts of the planet."
"Then just pick a spot where there aren't any, Captain."

It just gives a different tone to the first settlers than the one I had imagined. Originally I thought of them as settilng an empty world. When I heard about the Amindii being retconned in, I thought maybe they hadn't known about it. There were, after all, other pretty nice empty worlds around. You have to admit that there's quite a difference between:

"Did you know that there's a native race on Regina and that the Scouts ought to have interdicted it?"

(Regretfully) "Oh, dear, how unfortunate. But we're here now and we can't move, we turned our starship into an abbey."​

And

"Did you know the Scouts have interdicted Regina because there's a native race."

(Truculently) Yeah, we know. What are you going to do about it?"​

But I guess the sisters were tougher-minded than I had originally envisioned. Breaking an interdict and grabbing someone else's world was evidently not something to cause them any loss of sleep.

Mind you, I don't mind the Imperium failing to enforce an interdict. It can't have been very strong in the Marches at first. Imperial settlement didn't begin in earnest until 200; before that it was mostly private enterprise. Regina was independent of the Imperium for the first 175 years of the settlement.


Hans

 

[Swiftbrook]

So this is Imperiallines 6.

I have Imperiallines 1 & 2, from the MT era. And a copy of the combined Imperiallines 3/4. Is there an Imperiallines 5?

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Yea for Imperiallines!

So Rob, about all those vehicles and new JTAS stuff, you were serious after all. Looks awesome.

I dig the "old" new TNS entries, looking forward to more. And I found out why the HMS Herald is heading to the Zhodani Consulate at the beginning of 1100, taking back the naughty Zho. :devil:

Oh, and also put me on tap for writing stuff, though I suspect I was already on the short list.

Hans, just a thought, but for your Regina have you considered that, hell yeah they were some tough minded old penguins they had already schismed with their Mother Order. They just packed up and took off for a unpopulated world to start a new abbey. I suspect they might made a lot of hard decisions. But as to the Amindii first they have been around since the pic in Imperiallines which I am pretty sure I have in a hard copy CT book. That is hardly a retcon, may be a miss by you and me (I thought they were Aliens, didn't know they were Natives), but not a retcon. We missed them even though they were right there all the time, dude it happens, let it go.

And maybe, just going out on a limb as I know nothing if your SStR, but maybe they took it as opportunity to preach The Word to some heathen aliens. Just a thought. Also, I always thought Regina was settled by some radical Vilani, but that was just me and what references I had, which I now know are actually quite thin.

Me, I loved the whole thing, though I did skip the Walkthru having just made three playable Sophonts for my [T5 ATU] The Permatic Imperium. Otherwise, I read the whole thing and it was Traveller zine goodness through and through.

 

[rancke]

Hans, just a thought, but for your Regina have you considered that, hell yeah they were some tough minded old penguins they had already schismed with their Mother Order. They just packed up and took off for a unpopulated world to start a new abbey. I suspect they might made a lot of hard decisions.

Oh, I'll come with something and adapt. I usually do.

But as to the Amindii first they have been around since the pic in Imperiallines which I am pretty sure I have in a hard copy CT book. That is hardly a retcon, may be a miss by you and me (I thought they were Aliens, didn't know they were Natives), but not a retcon.

The picture didn't inform anyone that those aliens were native to Regina and the other reference seems to have been a VERY obscure one. Meanwhile, Regency Sourcebook fails to mention them, BtC fails to mention them, MgT's The Spinward Marches fails to mention them. I call it as I see it, and I see it as a retcon. Even if Marc Miller meant them to be included all along. Because they weren't included all along.

We missed them even though they were right there all the time, dude it happens, let it go.

I'm letting it go insofar as I'm going to adapt to them, which is, I presume, the important part.

And maybe, just going out on a limb as I know nothing if your SStR, but maybe they took it as opportunity to preach The Word to some heathen aliens. Just a thought. Also, I always thought Regina was settled by some radical Vilani, but that was just me and what references I had, which I now know are actually quite thin.

I have the Imperium dump four different groups on four different continents during the Pacification Campaigns. Some of them have some Vilani traits. The group on Ishkis establish a monarchy called the Karunate (from the Vilani Karun).


Hans

 

[Ulsyus]

The picture didn't inform anyone that those aliens were native to Regina and the other reference seems to have been a VERY obscure one. Meanwhile, Regency Sourcebook fails to mention them, BtC fails to mention them, MgT's The Spinward Marches fails to mention them. I call it as I see it, and I see it as a retcon. Even if Marc Miller meant them to be included all along. Because they weren't included all along.

Hans

Was there anything that said that they didn't exist? The Regency Sourcebook references to Regina focus more on the world's position and role, and internally only mentions the university.

Is it retconning (?!?) to include them now, or just adding detail to a planet/system that hasn't been comprehensively written about? I reckon that's it's really just the latter.

 

[inexorabletash]

MWM/T5's vision of NIL being extremely common is not something I inferred from any previous edition of Traveller.

And yet... perhaps it was there all along. While there are plenty of worlds that are obviously only habitable thanks to technology, the literature is full of shirtsleeve worlds that do have native life.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that this may have been in the eye of the beholder. Just as certain narratives of European expansionism would like to portray "colonization" as brave and noble (and pasty white) explorers planting flags in otherwise deserted corners of the globe and not the messy story of genocide and subjugation of already populated territories, perhaps we weren't getting the whole story of the spread of "civilization" in the OTU.

I recently re-read Clifford Linehan's interview with MWM about the Zhodani Core Route - http://web.archive.org/web/20021020...ies.com/traveller_core_route/proj001/faq.html - and was surprised that, with a fresh set of eyes, it contained many hints about the OTU that seemed like recent revelations, but that Marc has been pondering for (apparently) many, many years now.

 

[inexorabletash]

Imperiallines 1-5

If I recall correctly, issues 1, 2 and 3/4 are on the MT CD-ROM, and 5 is unpublished.

Is there any chance these will find their way up for purchase on DriveThruRPG?

 

[DonM]

So this is Imperiallines 6.

I have Imperiallines 1 & 2, from the MT era. And a copy of the combined Imperiallines 3/4. Is there an Imperiallines 5?

Yes. While several sources indicate it never left GDW, I have a bad scan of it from outside sources.

Marc has recently come into better scans of the old Imperiallines. I suspect they will be added at some point to one of the CDs. When that happens, there will be an announcement.

 

[rancke]

Was there anything that said that they didn't exist?

Yes, all three sources are supposed to be in-depth descriptions of the Marches. In which case absence of evidence really is evidence of absence. Especially for such a central world as Regina.

The Regency Sourcebook references to Regina focus more on the world's position and role, and internally only mentions the university.

You'll notice I didn't mention The Spinward Marches and The Spinward Marches Campaign as evidence for the non-existence of a couple of hundred million non-humans.

Is it retconning (?!?) to include them now, or just adding detail to a planet/system that hasn't been comprehensively written about? I reckon that's it's really just the latter.

And I disagree.


Hans