Imperial Nobility and change of government...

[Hal]

Ok, you're the Baron of some Jerkwater planet that has been part of your family's charter for the last 200 years. Through time, you've seen the government change forms not once, but twice. Unfortunately, it seems like a third revolution is about to take place and a decision has to be made. The local president has come to you requesting help in the form of Imperial Troops or even subsector army troops to help secure the government's security. The president has also come to remind you of your holdings currently owned by your family and that the Huscarles you've been employing to act as security forces at your privately held holdings are there at the express permission of the presidency. In the meantime, a member of the Insurgency - some fellow known as the Haka of Dardin (a religious office that seems to be like a bishop or something) has sent a strongly worded "Warning" that Imperial intervention against the insurgents would be seen as interfering with the planet's Dardin given right to determine its own form of government. In addition the Haka has stated that it will respect the Imperial reservation as land whose sovereignity is sancrosact and that no attacks will ever be made against Imperial lands precisely in order to avoid Imperial Intervention. The Haka also warns that although the insurgents will not be permitted to attack Imperial holdings, it does not believe that the current and corrupt presidency will not resort to falsely attacking Imperial lands in the hopes of making it seem as though the Insurgents will not honor that treaty. As a result, a hostage of the Prophet's own son will be offered up as proof that the Insurgents will not give the Presidency that choice of mounting a false attack and blaming it on them.

So you're the man on the spot. The insurgency has been a quiet little affair for the most part, but it has been growing. A recent scandal has erupted and now the locals favor the insurgents instead of the planetary government. While it is not an overwhelming mandate for the Theocracy, the balance of power is shifting to favor it.
On one hand, the presidency is asking for help combating the insurgents. He reminds you of the fact that at Efate, the Imperials are actively working to suppress the insurgency there. He points out that although the Imperium has by either law or by custom, left certain affairs in the sovereign domain of each world's government, his government is actively asking for help and offering the Imperials the right to land troops on his planet's domain.

Sadly? You know that should the insurrectionists consider Imperial intervention as an "all bets are off" affair, you know they may very well target your privately held holdings from the local government as a means of punishing your "wrongful intervention". On the other hand, the president has rightfully pointed out that other governments have in the past (or if you run a CT adventure set around 1107 - currently in the present!) are or have helped put insurrections down.

Finding someone to insure your non-imperial holdings is going to be the devil's own work. Finding someone to insure the holdings for cheaper than it is worth will also be an unlikely event. Last but not least, if this insurrection keeps on, the Travellers Aid Society just might change their coding of your world from amber to red! If Imperial troops intervene, it will definitely be changed to red. What to do, what to do...

 

[alanb]

Clearly whoever was in charge of the Barony for the past few years was asleep at the wheel. If it was the previous Baron, it's probably too late to do much about it, but if somebody else was running the show while I was offworld, they are in serious trouble...

That aside, though, the situation may well be past the point where it is possible to do much.

Obviously intervention is undesirable, but a lower key process might be possible. Essentially, this means using mercenaries.

Their mission should essentially be one of preventing the immediate fall of the government. Parallel to this should be a process of negotiations with the rebels.

The government may not be willing to negotiate. Depending on the situation, it might be possible to pressure them to change their minds. Failing that, it might be necessary to consider a coup!

The idea would be to negotiate a transition that would lend itself to co-opting (corrupting!) the new regime into essentially supporting the social status quo, albeit with a change of personnel.

This may or may not work.

To allow for the possibility that it doesn't, it would be necessary to prepare for the possibility of taking refuge in exile, and/or organising a counter-revolutionary coup against the new regime once its leaders are out of the underground. Ideally, this would take place once their popularity has begun to wane.

Failing that, it would be appropriate to begin to prepare strongholds where it would be possible for supporters of the old regime to hold out against the forces of the new one for an extended period. That way, you would have the possibility of bleeding the new regime dry through an extended war.

Intervention is always an option, of course. Just not the first one.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Hal:
Ok, you're the Baron of some Jerkwater planet that has been part of your family's charter for the last 200 years. Through time, you've seen the government change forms not once, but twice. Unfortunately, it seems like a third revolution is about to take place and a decision has to be made.

Hal,

Is the baron the only Imperial noble associated with the system? Your description implies a rather healthy population; enough to resort to honest-to-ghu revolutions, over a long period; three centuries.

IMHO and IMTU there are other Imperial nobles in the system and they must be consulted too.

... and that the Huscarles you've been employing to act as security forces at your privately held holdings are there at the express permission of the presidency.

He's got a revolution on his hands and he's threatening an Imperial noble? It wouldn't be the first time someone has tried to create a strawman with which to divert the anger of the masses.

... member of the Insurgency - some fellow known as the Haka of Dardin (a religious office that seems to be like a bishop or something) has sent a strongly worded "Warning" that Imperial intervention against the insurgents would be seen as interfering with the planet's Dardin given right to determine its own form of government.

Another warning from another wog? Getting rather uppity, aren't they? Just like the president, the Haka may only be setting up an Imperial boogeyman for domestic political purposes.

Also, to mangle a metaphor, a planet's 'right' to self-government extends just as far as the Imperium's nose. Get that nose out of joint and your self-determination goes out the airlock.

... the Imperial reservation as land whose sovereignity...

IMHO the term 'sovereignty' is one that is overused and misapplied by the Hobby when discussing the Imperial government and it's relationship with it's memmber worlds. Simply put, the word 'sovereignty' and it's uses carry quite a few relatively modern connotations, connotations that may not exist in the 57th Century.

What we assume to be territorial sovereignty could simply be territorial supremacy. The former phrase is a relatively modern idea, one that has gained strength since the national revolutions of the 1700s/1800s and one that underpins the very idea of the nation-state. The latter is an older model of governence and one that is primarily associated with fuedal organizations. (I'll get back to this later in another post.)

... it does not believe that the current and corrupt presidency will not resort to falsely attacking Imperial lands...

First a threat and then the promise of assistance? That's a trick as old as the Fertile Crescent. It seems as if both sides will be making the same claims and trying to tar each other with the same brush. Plenty of work ahead for those huscarles and travellers then.

As a result, a hostage of the Prophet's own son will be offered up as proof...

Beware of Hakas bearing gifts. The Prophet's own son? Who, if he dies in Imperial custody, will further inflame the situation? Sure, send him right over. The baron can't wait to play the patsy.

So you're the man on the spot.

You shouldn't be. If you were, you should have been in consultation with the surrounding nobles and your superiors. If you weren't, your decision - however bad - is still Imperial policy. The Imperium will either support it or use you as a fall guy when that policy fails. Seeing as the planet is a 'jerkwater' one, the Imperium isn't going to be terribly upset one way or another.

... now the locals favor the insurgents instead of the planetary government.

shrug Crowds are fickle.

[He reminds you of the fact that at Efate, the Imperials are actively working to suppress the insurgency there.

And you remind the president that the insurgency on Efate is Zhodani inspired, funded, and led. As soon as the president's forces capture and present an actual Zhodani advisor to you, the baron, the Imperium will take an active interest. Don't try and pass off any ringers either, make sure whoever you find has the proper number of teeth.

...they may very well target your privately held holdings from the local government as a means of punishing your "wrongful intervention".

Threatening the Imperium again? Silly wogs need to be taught a lesson it seems.

Finding someone to insure your non-imperial holdings is going to be the devil's own work. Finding someone to insure the holdings for cheaper than it is worth will also be an unlikely event.

Insurance? That's no concern at all. First, I very much doubt that the baron's insurance is a year-to-year type policy complete with monthly payments. Communication speeds simply forbid it. Next, the institution providing the insurance should be happy to take a loss here in order to ensure further business there, must not anger all those nobles enough to lose their custom, must we? Furthermore, the insurance carrier most likely has Imperial nobles on it's board.

What to do, what to do...

What the Imperium always does and what it did during the last three revolutions. Set itself up as an 'honest broker'. The current government and the insurgents are more than welcome to hash things out by force of arms if they wish. If things get too nasty - such as if either side infringes on Imperial interests - the Imperium reserves the right to intervene. Just what those interests are should be kept artfully vague. In the meantime, the baron can act as a go between for the two parties. If one or the other side is pushed to the wall, the Imperium can step into the fray and arrange a surrender that will avoid mass executions.

This isn't a problem for the Imperium. This is an opportunity instead, an opportunity that will allow the Imperium to show the locals just how necessary it's presence on the planet can be. What's more, the baron has been educated from birth by family, friends, and schools, to see this opportunity for what it is and make the most of it.

And then, if he still drops the ball, the Imperium will back him to nearly every extent. No wogs on a jerkwater planet are going to tell an Imperial noble what to do.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Bill, I'm not sure that's what Hal has in mind by "insurance".

And, for the most part, I endorse Bill's bits above.

Speaking of insurance, though, I would go with a low-key merc troupe that knows how to play the, "That's a nice little temple you got there, Haka. Sure would be a shame if something should happen to it." game. Especially bad, if things start dropping from orbit onto it. And, I would be sure to let him know that I would have kept my snooty Imperial nose out of things if he hadn't started threatening the Imperium. Now, he needs to play nice or get squashed like the bug he is. The Imperium is plenty big enough it won't care what the peons on this "jerkwater" planet think.

 

[aramis]

IMTU, the president would be politely, but firmly, reminded that he has NO say in my holdings, granted me by the emperor from lands donated by the government at admission.

If he balks, He gets intervention... starting with his removal.

See, the basic premise that the world has any say over the noble is not true IMTU.

Any incursion to the fief WILL bring a full-on intervention by the Imperial military. Fastest way is to do so.

Maybe some mercs, if he's polite and the government is of use. If the rebels get stupid and set foot in the fief, all bets are off.

If the local gov't isn't that useful, quiet aid to the rebels is in order. "Misplaced a Tank, M'lord" kind of stuff.

 

[flykiller]

imtu the imperium rules the space between the stars, i.e. it rules the starport via the local noble. unless the local planet/imperium treaty says otherwise, any other holdings he has are his own investments and subject to local laws and conditions, which the imperium tries to stay out of.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by flykiller:
unless the local planet/imperium treaty says otherwise, any other holdings he has are his own investments and subject to local laws and conditions, which the imperium tries to stay out of.

Of course, if he has his own Huscarles, the degree to which he is subject to local laws may vary.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Bill, I'm not sure that's what Hal has in mind by "insurance".

Fritz,

What? You never heard of merc insurance?

I did read it incorrectly. That's what I get for posting "fast & loose"!


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Hal]

Hi Guys,
As you might guess, I'm grinning as I read the replies. Bill's commentary was rather succinct and to the point, and I've no doubt that the Baron in this case who follows Bill's methodology is going to be in for some interesting times. That doesn't mean that the President nor the Haka aren't in for some "interesting times" as well, as it turns out...

My basic reason for putting this forward was to examine the concept that if the Imperium permits wars between member states, does the Imperium also consider its duty as being one to maintain status quo? Like the song says "Nothing lasts forever but the midnight sky", and one has to wonder what the mechanisms are for a change of government.

What I had hoped to point out was that a Noble has two types of holdings. The first type is that which the Imperium grants the Noble with his charter. Mess with this land as a planetary entity, and you are messing with (in my opinion) a very nasty fuse that could activate and explode with some nasty consequences. After all, if one world can take back what the Imperium regards as its own, and any other world can do it too. But the area gets a little greyer when dealing with on-world investments. If you use baronial money/profits to expand on a planet, you are counting on the government in current control, that it will honor your investments and leave you in control of those lands you purchased by their laws, and let you keep the profits generated by those lands in your control by their laws. Legally? If something goes badly on THAT property - can the Imperium intervene? Morally, the answer is yes, as the Noble has access to Imperial firepower. Legally however, he does not have the right to send in the Marines. In theory, a government could nationalize all off-world assets. Would the Imperium intervene against such a government? Would a world cut its own throat if off-world investers found themselves burned? Heck, what if those self-same offworld investors decided to hire the services of some mercenaries, and shore up the government in exile or an insurgency that they know will be more sympathetic towards returning the nationalized property? If the Baron got stung by the nationalization, might he not turn a blind eye towards "mercenary activity" that violates the "May not bear the brunt of the cost" provision in the Imperial Rules of War as it pertains to the Mercenaries?

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by flykiller:
imtu the imperium rules the space between the stars, i.e. it rules the starport via the local noble. unless the local planet/imperium treaty says otherwise, any other holdings he has are his own investments and subject to local laws and conditions, which the imperium tries to stay out of.

OTU in the guise of GURPS NOBLES (if I recall correctly) agrees with you. There are two distinct holdings that a Noble may own. The way GURPS NOBLES paints it, a Noble may be stripped of his holdings for cause - but that his non-hereditary holdings owned privately may not be stripped. This implies that the Imperium does recognize that even if they are going to punish a noble by taking away his "fief", that what is privately owned is subject to planetary laws and is in the domain of the planet from which the now stripped of his fief noble has access to. Conversely, Privately held property is not an Imperial concern.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by alanb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flykiller:
unless the local planet/imperium treaty says otherwise, any other holdings he has are his own investments and subject to local laws and conditions, which the imperium tries to stay out of.

Of course, if he has his own Huscarles, the degree to which he is subject to local laws may vary. </font>[/QUOTE]And therein lies a very interesting statement

If you lived in Buffalo and we were gaming face to face, I would LOVE to spring such a scenario on you. I'd detail the presidency of the world in question, detail the insurgents, and then give you an operational budget based on the holdings of the Baron on planet. Then I'd ask if you own a copy of STRIKER and let you have the fun of designing your own Huscarle unit(s) and see where you use them and how. Might be a fun scenario at that

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Aramis:
IMTU, the president would be politely, but firmly, reminded that he has NO say in my holdings, granted me by the emperor from lands donated by the government at admission.

If he balks, He gets intervention... starting with his removal.

See, the basic premise that the world has any say over the noble is not true IMTU.

Any incursion to the fief WILL bring a full-on intervention by the Imperial military. Fastest way is to do so.

Maybe some mercs, if he's polite and the government is of use. If the rebels get stupid and set foot in the fief, all bets are off.

If the local gov't isn't that useful, quiet aid to the rebels is in order. "Misplaced a Tank, M'lord" kind of stuff.

Keep in mind that OTU distinguishes between holdings of the Fief and privately held holdings of the Baron as he interacts with the government of the world itself. One set of holdings are sanctioned by the Imperium as Imperial protected, the other, the domain of the planetary government.

Now, here's a twist that might be worth considering...

What if, the Rebels offered the Baron a bribe along the lines of "We will gift you with another 100 square kilometers of land if you withhold official help for the president's forces. If you help us covertly, we will offer you more land of course."

Talk about incentives for a CORRUPT Imperial nobility!

 

[Liam Devlin]

Ah, a High SOC level campaign question! My experience with this is limited to MTU only, and how big and powerful I believe the 3rd Imperium is in the spinward marches (since the Efate Insurgency is quoted):

Originally posted by Hal:
Ok, you're the Baron of some Jerkwater planet that has been part of your family's charter for the last 200 years. Through time, you've seen the government change forms not once, but twice. Unfortunately, it seems like a third revolution is about to take place and a decision has to be made. The local president has come to you requesting help in the form of Imperial Troops or even subsector army troops to help secure the government's security. The president has also come to remind you of your holdings currently owned by your family and that the Huscarles you've been employing to act as security forces at your privately held holdings are there at the express permission of the presidency.

I, as Baron of Jerkwater IV nod, (interrupting him) and gently/ firmly remind the elected president that the previous two administrations had similiar agreements with the Imperium, and my Noble House these past 200 years...

In the meantime, a member of the Insurgency - some fellow known as the Haka of Dardin (a religious office that seems to be like a bishop or something) has sent a strongly worded "Warning" that Imperial intervention against the insurgents would be seen as interfering with the planet's Dardin given right to determine its own form of government. In addition the Haka has stated that it will respect the Imperial reservation as land whose sovereignity is sancrosact and that no attacks will ever be made against Imperial lands precisely in order to avoid Imperial Intervention. The Haka also warns that although the insurgents will not be permitted to attack Imperial holdings, it does not believe that the current and corrupt presidency will not resort to falsely attacking Imperial lands in the hopes of making it seem as though the Insurgents will not honor that treaty. As a result, a hostage of the Prophet's own son will be offered up as proof that the Insurgents will not give the Presidency that choice of mounting a false attack and blaming it on them.

I understand the Haka's veiled threat, yet send through our offices to his esteemed personage that the Imperium, and by defacto, my family's holdings & the starport, our huscarles, and citizens, nor my self will not be threatened nor held hostage to to his group. I thank & assure this 'Haka of dardin' after his rhetoric and warning the "full weight of the Imperium will be on his back should any attack happen to Imperial property, (my family's or the starport)or personnel in short order.

Imperial Intervention is guaranteed should any harm befall property or persons of the Imperium, on that the Haka may sleep soundly knowing--I need no hostages, thank you. Your son is safe enough with now, he shall so remain by your side, thank you. I offer instead my offices between your party, and the Government in talks to resolve the issues between yourselves and the Government. You have 3 planetary days to decide, upon receipt of this message or I will presume you are merely a sophist and a terrorist, and will see you for what you are--Baron of Jerkwater IV, 360-1107.

I consult the nobles within the chain of my fiefdom above me (to let them know a subtle, but blatant threat has been issued,& that I am setting ourselves up to broker between the parties, and failing to instill respect for the Imperium, I may require assistance of military grade) and below me (to be aware of the situation, and be prepared--including my huscarles & their commander).

So you're the man on the spot. The insurgency has been a quiet little affair for the most part, but it has been growing. A recent scandal has erupted and now the locals favor the insurgents instead of the planetary government. While it is not an overwhelming mandate for the Theocracy, the balance of power is shifting to favor it.

Local politics and fickle crowds. It bears my interest in researching the previous two revolutions and reasons behind them for the upcoming talks.

On one hand, the presidency is asking for help combating the insurgents. He reminds you of the fact that at Efate, the Imperials are actively working to suppress the insurgency there.

"mssr President (of jerkwater IV), That insurgency is sponsored by the Zhodani, and its presence there hence bears that the Imperial Army and Navy are involved in suppressing it. Are there Zhodani among these insurgents here? If so, prove it to me, and such can be affected in short order.

He points out that although the Imperium has by either law or by custom, left certain affairs in the sovereign domain of each world's government, his government is actively asking for help and offering the Imperials the right to land troops on his planet's domain.

I nod, and reply," And the insurgents I take heed have quarrel with you, and your government , not the IMperium. The Imperium whom I serve, nor myself will not be shackled to you and your administration if in discovery is in the wrong. Beware how you stir our sleeping sword of war sir. If you have need of extra troops, may I suggest the hiring of mercenary forces?"

Sadly? You know that should the insurrectionists consider Imperial intervention as an "all bets are off" affair, you know they may very well target your privately held holdings from the local government as a means of punishing your "wrongful intervention".

Sadly, the insurgents as well as countless civilians they hide among will die if they do attack my holdings, and by defacto-the Imperium whom I represent. (see my above response to the 'Haka').

On the other hand, the president has rightfully pointed out that other governments have in the past (or if you run a CT adventure set around 1107 - currently in the present!) are or have helped put insurrections down.

Sadly, I correct the President those interventions were for the reasons of state--the Zhodani, on Efate, the Imperium's sworn enemy. Or Imperial trade interests and resources were jeopardized. "No, Mssr President, you and your administration seem to have lost the faith with the people you were sworn to govern wisely, and well. The Imperium is not the strawman for you to hide behind here, when it is malfeasance on your subordinates part at the issue sir."

"In days of old, a once honorable man undone by his own dishonorable means, or by those under his orders when given the easy way out, fell on his sword. You have no such luxury here and now. Might i suggest you avert war, discharge those in the Scandal immediately and hold them to trial and justice, or entirely dissolve the government, and order the formation of a new one, with the disaffected parties at the table. In this regard, the Imperium might be able to save you.

Finding someone to insure your non-imperial holdings is going to be the devil's own work. Finding someone to insure the holdings for cheaper than it is worth will also be an unlikely event.

If this is part of a fief, of which I as Baron have sway, I am not in doubt I can raise through credit an impromtu Mercenary host as "insurance". Likewise, if there are Huscarles, I must have some resources to pay them with, and the caveat being any attack on my personnel, and property will be seen as an attack on the Imperium itself.

Last but not least, if this insurrection keeps on, the Travellers Aid Society just might change their coding of your world from amber to red! If Imperial troops intervene, it will definitely be changed to red. What to do, what to do...

I will use the TAS zone coding as a lever between both parties. I will cite what current affairs examples there may be in the loss of trade goods the people of both sides will lose should either opt out of this dilemma into outright war. Neither will profit from a Red Zone, nor will the planets' folk, with the embargoes that follow such a coding--disease, famine will follow such a conflict, and no matter "the right" of each side, the winner will rule a charnel house.

As Bill has pointed out, this is an opportunity for the Imperium, and myself as baron. The rebels and their 'Haka' are trying to have the field clear between themselves and the government free to play war and mayhem on, and alluded to "false attacks". Having telegraphed me his intent, the Haka has announced his ploy and deniability--I have put him on notice as the "guilty dog barking first", his head, and his followers will be the first served to a platter if such a thing happens.

The President and his government may hire mercs and fight their insurgents if they wish, but to both parties I will steer as the "honest broker", and enhance the the Imperium's role to these folk of Jerkwater IV, and let them have a better appreciation of the Imperium's role in interstellar affairs.

If I succeed greatly, my holdings are secured, my reputation amongst my peers and superiors is enhanced, & the Imperium here is secured, and well served.

if neither side wishes to talk, or see reason and open rebellion & full scale war ensues, I conclude the Imperium's issue on sovereignty to the winning side, and accomodate the winner.

I have to concur with Bill, the Baron might look like he's in a pickle, but he's/she's not. Its all opportunity for him/her to act upon in a positive manner.

Through inaction, and delay, and lack of consistent actions--yes, the baron of Jerkwater IV could damage his reputation, lose his holdings, and if it was really deplorably executed, might even be stripped of his title.

Might there be a time for violence and action? Yes, you are not bluffing either side with the defense of your holdings or any Imperial citizen or property. If the rebels test you, flatten them (use the mercs "insurance" policy).

You are not bluffing the President by telling him his blaming his troubles and lack of troops is the Imperium's problem, and any threat of saying "sory Baron, my men cannot protect your holdings etc," is a cop out and a threat.

And he will get much the same response from me, as the 'Haka' did.

he can reform his government, clean his own house, or hire mercs to bolster his defending of his side being in the wrong by hiring offworld mercenaries (Ruie has TL7 billions needing employment). But he doesn't get carte blanche to blame me, or the Imperium for his mess.

Thats how a Baron in my Imperium would handle this. YMMV.

 

[Spiderfish]

Originally posted by Hal:
In theory, a government could nationalize all off-world assets. Would the Imperium intervene against such a government?

Does a bear defecate in the woods?

Somehow I can't see the nationalisation of a megacorporation's assets on gashworld III being wise.

does the Imperium also consider its duty as being one to maintain status quo?

Francis Rossi is a good friend of the Emperor himself to say the least.

 

[dark1]

IIRC the world pays taxes and the imperium protects the world from non-imperial and lawless threats

A baron could make sure the local government had an "accident" and could not pay their taxes at that point you would then confiscate land for the imperium as payment

It all really depends on whether the nobility as a whole has more noble aims or if the imperium is just a giant protection racket

IMHO i think the evil imperium is more likely

 

[Hal]

Hmmm. Now I'm tempted to work out the specifics of something like this using GURPS NOBLES, as well as use a Spinward Marches planet for an example. At present, based on the need to be relatively near Efate, be a representative democracy, and be of reasonable tech level, is 2414 Turedad in the Lanth subsector. Population is 6 x 10^5, an agricultural, non-industrial world. Why it would have such a low population rating is anyone's guess - but perhaps therein lies the story eh?

Hmmm. Using GURPS NOBLES regards to Huscarles, it states that shooting at mercenary units is usually self-defense. Shooting at Huscarles may be treason. Note it isn't automatic, but then again, I'm sure that anyone who has cause to fire upon Huscarles is going to be very unhappy having to worry about it.

Barons in general have the right to raise a company of Huscarles while some at frontier regions may have more. Peace time duties of the Huscarles can include paramilitary police functions as well as bodyguard duties. They are legally exempt from local laws regarding weapon possion providing they are on duty and in uniform. In addition, they are part of what GURPS GROUND FORCES terms "Unified Army of the Imperium". The question remains however, whether or not a Unified Army can enter the "turf" of a planetary Domain without permission of the Planetary government. Still reading on that one

As I look at both GURPS GROUND FORCES and GURPS NOBLES - it looks as though using this world, the numbers work out thus:

Baron's Huscarles: 1 Company
Planetary Army: 1 Battalion
Total Population 600,000
Gross Domestic Product: 2,108.16 MCrimps

Hmmm, this could work out as a nice little "war" scenario...

I wonder if I should write this up and place it at FREELANCE TRAVELLER...

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Hal:
At present, based on the need to be relatively near Efate, be a representative democracy, and be of reasonable tech level, is 2414 Turedad in the Lanth subsector. Population is 6 x 10^5, an agricultural, non-industrial world. Why it would have such a low population rating is anyone's guess - but perhaps therein lies the story eh?

Does it have to be a representative democracy? That isn't necessarily implied in the original situation. One of the bureaucratic government types would work equally well.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by dark1:
It all really depends on whether the nobility as a whole has more noble aims or if the imperium is just a giant protection racket

IMHO i think the evil imperium is more likely

Personally, I usually assume that "the nobility as a whole" don't really have aims. They are just too disparate.

Sure, most of them are probably interested in perpetuating their own privileges, but that's pretty much it. Aside from that, they can vary from the most shiny, fluffy-bunny Nice Guys to the ultimate Black Hats, with most, of course, somewhere in between.

In fact, I suspect most probably lean towards the Good Guy end - until their interests are threatened. Then they turn nasty, very fast.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Hal:
Hmmm. Now I'm tempted to work out the specifics of something like this using GURPS NOBLES, as well as use a Spinward Marches planet for an example. At present, based on the need to be relatively near Efate, be a representative democracy, and be of reasonable tech level, is 2414 Turedad in the Lanth subsector. Population is 6 x 10^5, an agricultural, non-industrial world. Why it would have such a low population rating is anyone's guess - but perhaps therein lies the story eh?

Turedad 2414-C465540-9 Ag Ni 614/Lanth/SM

Hmmm. Using GURPS NOBLES regards to Huscarles, it states that shooting at mercenary units is usually self-defense. Shooting at Huscarles may be treason. Note it isn't automatic, but then again, I'm sure that anyone who has cause to fire upon Huscarles is going to be very unhappy having to worry about it.

IMHO in any TU , an Imperial Noble should treat a hostile act upon his/her/its troops as an attack against his/her/its personage & thus the Imperium--period.

Barons in general have the right to raise a company of Huscarles while some at frontier regions may have more. Peace time duties of the Huscarles can include paramilitary police functions as well as bodyguard duties. They are legally exempt from local laws regarding weapon possion providing they are on duty and in uniform. In addition, they are part of what GURPS GROUND FORCES terms "Unified Army of the Imperium". The question remains however, whether or not a Unified Army can enter the "turf" of a planetary Domain without permission of the Planetary government. Still reading on that one

As I look at both GURPS GROUND FORCES and GURPS NOBLES - it looks as though using this world, the numbers work out thus:

Baron's Huscarles: 1 Company
Planetary Army: 1 Battalion
Total Population 600,000
Gross Domestic Product: 2,108.16 MCrimps

I prefer the TNE model here: 1% of planetary population for military personnel baseline expenditures.

Hence:
Turedad: pop 600,000
Milpers (1%) = 6,000.

Type C starport: 5% , or 300 personnel (less than 500, so not even a single SDB). SPA and satellite defense personnel

Wet Navy (hyd 5) 50% = 3,000 personnel (1x large vessel-1500personnel & 3x small vessels 500 personnel each).

Air Forces/COACC 20% = 1,200 personnel (6x PADM batteries, 6-launchers each, 600 personnel & 6x TL9 Aerospace orbital only interceptors-600personnel).

Ground troops = all remainder personnel= 1,500 personnel: (15x 100-man companies/ 1x elite; 3x veteran quality; 5x trained/experienced quality; 6x Green quality/ Police forces)


Hmmm, this could work out as a nice little "war" scenario...

I wonder if I should write this up and place it at FREELANCE TRAVELLER...

Have at it. I think GT underrates what a Noble's & a planet's military is, but thats me.

I could see the baron having 500-600 Huscarles (a battalion, or BN plus)--this time 0.001% of total.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Hal:

Might I suggest since you're looking at Lanth this possibility?

Quopist: -2215-B150678-A Ni De A721 Im/ Lanth/ SM.

Its already an amber zone ..

Its balkanized (Jonkereen & Non-geneered humaniti)...

And with the hydrosphere of being a desert, the imperatives of a Government that squanders money when water is so precious becomes so much more volatile..