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Imperial Army: How do you do it?

"For me, all Armies are local.
The Imperium projects power through the Navy and Marines."

I agree with Atpollord, but I see an Imperial Guard for the Capital and maybe Archdukes.

In fact the way I see it the main Imperial problem is manpower as the planets try and keep the best manpower for their own defence, (planetary army and navy) and try and palm their criminals/undesirables off on the imperium, which has the drill sergeants to turn them into effective marines etc cf 18th and 19th century colonial powers.

Regards

david
 
>And yes I do think that frontier dukes would try to maintain the largest forces they can afford to equip and support. Since the duke has access to top of the line Imperial equipment, the limiting factors are going to be population and local TL - higher pop means more taxes, and higher TL means more local stuff can be used.

GURPS Nobles addresses huscarles - cant remember what it says off the top of my head but there were size/rank limits

>The why no other huscarles is an interesting question - it could be that other subsector dukes keep them home so there was no point providing counters for them, or it could be that they are Imperialised in time of war and show up subsumed into the replacement/reinforcement units

or they are subsumed into the planetary defence forces ?
 
For me, I borrow a bit from the WEG-SW... there is a sidebar about "Major Generals are Everywhere"...

IMTU, the "Imperial Army" exists, but has no permanent party personnel who are not part of Corps-level command HQ's or higher. All lower postings are part of activated Regiments, brigades and Divisions of various local forces. Each Subsector has one or more Army HQ's, each sector has 1-4 Army Group HQ's. Major systems or multi-world sub-Subsector polities get a Corps HQ. Local units, when activated to imperial service, add the JIS rank insignia (if not already worn routinely), and get attached to a particular Army or Corps headquarters, with ad-hoc divisions and brigades as needed.

Likewise, Huscarles are technically imperial army IMTU. They are seconded from the local armies and the imperial marines. (Usually the majority of the cadre are marines, while the majority of troops are army, in both cases, a 2:1 ratio.) This trains army troops in marine operations, and creates lasting ties. A few, up to a limit of 10% by decree, may be direct enlistees. Most huscarles are seconded for a period of 4 years, then returned to their service of origin. A few serve longer, especially officers.

See also COACC (MT)... which specifies a similar approach to local vs. imperial army.
 
I think that if there really wasn't an Imperial Army, as GT:GT claims, then one would need to be created. By which I mean that the Emperor will need someone to keep an eye on the Unified Armies, and if he doesn't have an Imperial Army to draw his "watchmen" from, he'd draw them from the Army of the Domain of Sylea, if one existed, or from the Army of the Duchy of Core, if one existed, or from the Army of Capital, which we can assume does exist, even if the other two don't. Which means that the Capital Army would assume the functions of any Imperial Army that didn't exist.

A historical example is Britain, which did not have a 'Generalty' to do for the Army what thje Admiralty did for the Navy. With the result that the Horse Guards, conveniently billeted close to the government, took over those functions (promotion, postings, etc.).


Hans
 
Army

What we know:

There is an Imperial Army, despite any GURPS book to the contrary, G:T says so itself on P.100, SMC says so on P.4. Invasion: Earth shows Regulars, Colonial, Merc & Marine. (ditto as mentioned FFW)

The Army (& Marines) are meritocracies, you start as a private and earn rank including becoming a member of the officer corps. No ROTC/Mil Academy direct commission. The Imperium maintains a Draft, it is semi-voluntary. This would discourage nobles except for younger children who are unlikely to inherit. It mostly serves as garrison troops. It has Staff & War colleges for advanced officer schooling.

I see Imperial Army as a cross of Imperial German/modern Germany. A cadre of officers and NCO's that do most of the work. a load of short timers passing through and a few places in the Imperium that have nagging brush wars requiring protracted army presence rather than Marine in & out Op.
 
Probably the best source I can think of to answer this question is the Fifth Frontier War board game. Looking it over again I see that there is a clear distinction between Regular (i.e. Imperial), Colonial, and Local forces.

Based on this I would have to go with a combination of options 2 and 3 from the post above: An Imperium-wide monolithic army, as well as local colonial armies based on certain planets and brought under higher command during a crisis. (Sorry, I’m not familiar with GT: Ground Forces at this time).

Combining the 5FW boardgame with the article “Troops in the Fifth Frontier War” from JTAS #10 I tend to agree with Nick’s basic assessment. The JTAS article gives the rule for determining colonial forces from defensive battalions.

However, IMTU colonial units are not quite as hodge podge as this might suggest. At the subsector level there is often a NATO-like military alliance for coordinating and standardising. These are recognised and assisted by various and overlapping Imperial programs (include programs for disposal of surplus equipment to colonial forces and equipment purchase subsidies). Mobile units, as defined in the JTAS article, that are part of a subsector military alliance are numbered colonial units, those that aren’t retain the name of their homeworld. But Imperial Army units are raised independently of these rules.
 
Probably the best source I can think of to answer this question is the Fifth Frontier War board game. Looking it over again I see that there is a clear distinction between Regular (i.e. Imperial), Colonial, and Local forces.
GT:GT does have an explanation for that. Certain units of each planet's forces are trained to certain standards and are at the disposal of the Duchy's high command. Those are the regular troop.

The counters indicate that the Imperium has no less than 8 regular field armies available in the Spinward Marches during the Fifth Frontier War, as well as 6 corps and numerous smaller regular units. Regular units range in TL from 14 to 15. There are also 8 regiments of Imperial Marines equipped at TL 15.

The colonial armies (both named and numbered) include up to 5 field armies, 15 corps and 10 smaller units. Colonial units range in TL from 8 to 15 with the average around 11.5.

Individual systems have local forces ranging from 0 to 150,000 battalions, but these are not available for transport off-world.
FFW is not the best source of information about the number of troops in the Imperium, although it may be useful for the proportions that belong to one category or another. Why? Because FFW was published before the population multiplier was introduced. So the number of planetary battalions is based on what is effectively a population multiplier of 1 for all worlds, which we (now) know is wrong in 8 out of 9 cases. Since Imperial funding is based on the military budgets of the worlds (Striker), one must assume that the colonial and regular forces are likewise wrong.

The only huscarles listed in the game are the 6 elite battalions of the Duke of Regina’s Own 4518 Lift Infantry Regiment (TL 15). As Norris is Sector Duke at the time, I would expect that his unit of huscarles are the largest in the sector. This suggests to me that the huscarles units of other nobles are probably too small in size to play a significant roll in a major war.
As Norris is merely a subsector duke at the time, I think that the absence of the Duke of Rhylanor's Huscarles and the Duke of Lunion's Huscarles from the countermix means that the countermix is not 100% representative of the units actually present in the Marches. Maybe the Duke of Rhylanor wasn't on Rhylanor during the historical Zhodani attack and the Duke of Lunion never got within sniffing range of a battle; that ould account for their huscarles not being included in the countermix. But it doesn't prove that they don't exit.

Finally, there are 10 units of mercenaries, ranging in size from battalion to division. Several of these units are noted as being elite, and TL’s range from 12 to 16! The combined strength of the mercenary units is just slightly less than that of the available Imperial Marines, suggesting that they are capable of a significant strategic effect in the war.
Or the proportions of the total number of mercenaries that got involved in the fighting is bigger than the proportion of regular and colonial troops that got involved.


Hans
 
Combining the 5FW boardgame with the article “Troops in the Fifth Frontier War” from JTAS #10 I tend to agree with Nick’s basic assessment. The JTAS article gives the rule for determining colonial forces from defensive battalions.
And as the number of planetary battalions is off by a factor of 1 to 9 (see my previous post), the colonial foces are likewise off by a factor of ~5 (probably a bit lower; IIRC many of the pop 10 worlds have low population multipliers).

However, IMTU colonial units are not quite as hodge podge as this might suggest. At the subsector level there is often a NATO-like military alliance for coordinating and standardising.
An organization that I like to call the Duchy of <Wherever> Army ;).


Hans
 
Bk 4 includes (as does MT) ROTC and Academies.

Military Academies aside, isn't ROTC a U.S. thing? I can see adding Academies to the mix of options for a player, but why would the future look like the U.S. otherwise (when it strongly doesn't, i.e. Nobles and such)?

IMTU, it's as said before - military stuff is based on merit. It is assumed that a person promoted to officer status goes to academy to cement the gain, much like in Heinlein's "Starship Troopers." Or that's my take, anyway.
 
>isn't ROTC a U.S. thing?

Australian as well .... and I suspect british etc still do as well too .... although Australia is effectively moving away from having 2 partly integrated "armies" with standardised training ..... the situation was kind of like if the US army and National Guard was under federal control permanently

In my traveller universe there have always been tiers of military. Planetary averaging at their TL+1, subsector and sector based on the common high TL (eg if 5 decent worlds are 13 and 2 are 14 then they are at 13) and imperial with the occassional 'group' polity in between the planet and sector level to account for imperial members that have a common identity. Most of the money above subsector level is for naval power.

military service above the planetary level is voluntary and volunteering must be allowed by the worlds .... although one adventure did involve smuggling someone into the ET zone to enlist.
 
ROTC as a term is a US thing. College Student Cadet Programs have existed as a means of commissioning in many countries.

NOTC isBk5 p15

I stand corrected on Bk 4 (I just dug mine out). MT, however, has academy and OTC for Army, Marine, and Navy; see MT PM p47-47.
 
Back to the Imperial Army concept, I would say it all depends on one's view of the Imperium. My inclination is to view the actual Imperial Army as large in real terms, but small in relative terms. Say several army groups around 3 to 5 corps each. Then Domain armies of around 5 corps, then Sector Armies, Subsector Armies, and so on. The higher Armies would likely be more staff-intensive than the lower ones, so expertise could be provided on an Imperial basis.

Or work it from the bottom in a feudal manner (not manor :) ). A system might be responsible for providing x number of battalions (corps level for pop 10 or larger), Barons might be held to providing a battalion, a Count a division, a Duke a corps, and so on in that manner.

IMHO, of course.
 
>ROTC as a term is a US thing.

It's also used by other countries like the philippines (not similar in results) and Singapore (very similar)
 
Rotc

I'm a TRAV snob. Anything stated in CT is usually real, anything after, that conflicts, is usually ignored.

So SST or STARFIST style promotions. Navy has NOTC, but navies are and always have been full of class snobs.
 
Getting back to the original question.

I run Imperial Army as system specific - each system will have its own seperate un-integrated army. On the plus side Imperial taxation can be paid in having "standing armies available for transit" which gives a strong reason for high pop worlds to have large standing armies to minimise any tax burden.

These mobile Armies are used for peace keeping purposes, and very occasionally for full scale invasion.
 
Hi,

I was basing my previous comment on the absence of any sign of an Imperial Army in district 268 in the epic adventure 1 forgotten war.

On thinking about it, it would make sense to make starport defence the responsibility of the imperial army, rather than the marines. After all you wouldn't waste your shock troups in such duty prefering to keep them availble for response.

I've also decided that the Vilani would form the bulk of the Officer Corps, all those bureaucrats would love checking people's papers at starports.

Regards

David
 
On thinking about it, it would make sense to make starport defence the responsibility of the imperial army, rather than the marines. After all you wouldn't waste your shock troups in such duty prefering to keep them availble for response.

But on the other hand, a starport--especially one with a naval base--might be a good place to "keep them available", and that would kill two birds with one stone.


Marian
 
Here's my take. I see the Imperial Army as technically being all ground forces, but actually being mostly a small cadre force that can back up local forces with officers and NCOs, and a few field units to act a local reserve for the local armies (and deter rebellion). I think that's kind of implied in the original Bk1 CG system, where you only have to roll a 5+ to get a commission (compared to 9+ for the Marines). That implies to me a force that has a lot of officers.

From my IMTU write up:

The Army theoretically comprises all terrestrial forces, and includes Nautical Forces Command (the “wet” Navy) and the Close Orbit and Atmospheric Command (flyers), in addition to Ground Forces Command. In practice, the Imperial Army itself does not maintain those forces, but leaves them to the local planetary governments. The Imperial Army is primarily a cadre force that trains ground Officers and NCOs to support local planetary Armies, and provide High Tech Level reserve forces that can be moved relatively quickly in the event of direct intervention or foreign invasion. The standing units of the Imperial Army serve as a training ground, with officers and young soldiers starting in them to learn leadership and tactics, then being posted to local Armies that are involved in or preparing for military conflicts to build combat experience.
Individual worlds are required to maintain standing and reserve forces based on the threat to the system from foreign enemies. In many cases, the local government will maintain larger forces for domestic political reasons. Any local government may request Imperial forces or personnel to augment their forces. Local wars and counter insurgency operations provide a valuable and regular training ground for the Imperial Army’s professional leadership, and the occasional opportunity to deploy regular army units as well. Local military forces will almost never be deployed out of system, but local soldiers may be integrated into Imperial Army units in the event of a major mobilization.

As a general rule, the Imperial Army will maintain a regular force capable of defeating the single largest planetary army in a subsector to ensure that it can put down any local rebellion successfully. Imperial Army units will always be at least one and preferably at least two Tech Levels above the best local army in the border regions.
The main tactical organization for the IA is the Combined Arms Brigade. Each brigade is capable of independent action, or can be combined with other brigades to from larger formations. Divisions are common, but Corps are not, and Field Armies are rare. Training units are Branch “pure” Regiments.
In determining the size of a local Imperial Army garrison, the Army will determine the size of the largest local army and then determine the proper combination of tech level and force size needed to defeat it with Imperial “Space Superiority”. This will normally be a one to one troop ratio reduced by one organizational level for each tech level advantage. For example, Jewell has a local army consisting of a TL12 Grav Cavalry Corps. The Imperial garrison would be one TL 13 Division, or one TL 14 Brigade of the same troop type.

There are four basic types of formations in the Imperial Army:

Field: Full strength tactical units capable of immediate combat operations.

Training: School Regiments that train civilians or Local Army personnel to serve in the Imperial Army. They provide minimum combat power themselves, but are critical to the manning of the IA.

Cadre: Full strength Headquarters and full compliments of equipment with small numbers of soldiers to perform maintenance. Designed to absorb large numbers of trained soldiers from training units or local armies in the event of mobilization.

AG: Augmentation Groups are ad-hoc formations tailored to the requirements of a local government’s military situation. They provide assistance to local armies on request.

Household Troops

Nobles are allowed to raise household troops. These forces are usually small and intended for the security of the Noble, their family, and valuable household property. In the case of high ranking nobles, these forces may be very large and significant. Most Dukes have a force large enough to deal with minor rebellions within their sub-sector (much better to deal with it quietly without having to bother the imperial admirals and marshals). Household troop will normally be veterans of other services as few nobles have the wealth to establish a permanent training base of their own.

Local Armies

The Imperial Army gives wide latitude to local governments in organizing and equipping their forces provided they meet the force minimums set by the Imperial Ministry of War. The general pattern that emerges is one of large standing forces closer to the borders diminishing to cadres and reserves in the core of the Imperium. Organization, uniforms, and doctrine of local armies are heavily influenced by local cultures and terrain.

Mercenaries

Since full scale Imperial Army intervention usually results in the replacement of local security officials and military officers with Imperial personnel, local governments are reluctant to call on the Imperial Army until the survival of the regime itself is threatened. To fill the gap between the need for outside military forces and the imperative for Imperial Army intervention a large number of Mercenary organizations have developed. The Imperium accepts and licenses these organizations, provided they to not operate against Imperial forces and abide by the Imperial Rules of War.


Just my take...
 
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