Ideas for 2320

[SteveC]

Both the Santa Maria (I think it was called?), enroute to Alpha Centauri full of Mexican colonists, and the Carolina Dreamer, vanished under mysterious circumstances... While we know that the CD was probably destroyed (hinted in one of the Challenge adventures), what happened to the Mexicans was never revealed...

I always assumed that they were "jumped" somewhere else, and that, eventually, we would run into them, again! They would have had as long to set up their colonies as we have had to set up the three arms!

Then there's the Zeta Reticulii mystery... We know that one of the alien races (the Eber) comes from there, and they left biological weapons on Kormoran... Very interesting, to me, that the first "Alien" book took place in the Zeta Reticulii system... eh?

The aftermath of the Kafer War should be fun. What happened to the other alien races?

The Xiang: are they now free of Sung domination? Do the males now roan the universe, crewing starships? Are they still stoneage tech?

The Sung: Have they caught up to Humans in stuttertechnology, yet? Have we had more wars with them, over Sos-soon-atchachar?

The Eber: Their immunity to radiation means they can stutter farther than we, but they're iron-age tech. Will we raise them?

The Pentapods: Have we charted the Pentapod Finger, yet? If so, is it open, or closed? Have we met the "Pentagods" yet? Do we know what they want?

What about the Agra Intelligences? Have we figured out what they want, yet? What they're building? Why?

What about the aliens and their enemies from the "Shadows of the Past" adventure in the Nyotekundu Sourcebook? Have we encountered them? (Either of these last two allow for the insertion of Psychic abilities, even if Humans aren't allowed to have them).

New races?

What about the American treaty which allowed the Scandinavian Union (among many others) to colonize one of the post-Vegan planets (Alighieri or Highland, IIRC)? What's been done there, in the last 20 years?

What about the Ylii? Has compter-tech taken off since we met them? Have colonies gotten "greener" under their influence? Have they tried to adopt Humanity? What do they think of the Xiang?

Are the Sung Pentapod upgrades of the small food-critters on the Xiangs' Homeworld, and is their "Sea-Mother" a spacefaring PentaGoddess?

What new wprlds have been explored?

What is the current stutterwarp limit, after integrating Kafer Stutter-tech and Ylii computer-tech?

What have those lost Mexicans been up to, all these years? Did their Machismo save us, in the nick of time, in the Kafer War?

Just some thoughts...

 

[robmyers]

Originally posted by SteveC:
Have we met the "Pentagods" yet? Do we know what they want?

They want our women.

Well, I don't know, but you can imagine the poster.

- Rob, who may have originated the word "Pentagod".

 

[Gallowglass]

Originally posted by robmyers:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SteveC:
Have we met the "Pentagods" yet? Do we know what they want?

They want our women.

Well, I don't know, but you can imagine the poster.

- Rob, who may have originated the word "Pentagod". </font>[/QUOTE]OH
MY
GOD

I just had a horrible thought - we must never let the 'pods watch Mars Attacks...

(I'm running away to hide now)


Nick Middleton

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by SteveC:
Both the Santa Maria (I think it was called?), enroute to Alpha Centauri full of Mexican colonists, and the Carolina Dreamer, vanished under mysterious circumstances... While we know that the CD was probably destroyed (hinted in one of the Challenge adventures), what happened to the Mexicans was never revealed...

I always assumed that they were "jumped" somewhere else, and that, eventually, we would run into them, again! They would have had as long to set up their colonies as we have had to set up the three arms!

Then there's the Zeta Reticulii mystery... We know that one of the alien races (the Eber) comes from there, and they left biological weapons on Kormoran... Very interesting, to me, that the first "Alien" book took place in the Zeta Reticulii system... eh?

The aftermath of the Kafer War should be fun. What happened to the other alien races?

The Xiang: are they now free of Sung domination? Do the males now roan the universe, crewing starships? Are they still stoneage tech?

The Sung: Have they caught up to Humans in stuttertechnology, yet? Have we had more wars with them, over Sos-soon-atchachar?

The Eber: Their immunity to radiation means they can stutter farther than we, but they're iron-age tech. Will we raise them?

The Pentapods: Have we charted the Pentapod Finger, yet? If so, is it open, or closed? Have we met the "Pentagods" yet? Do we know what they want?

What about the Agra Intelligences? Have we figured out what they want, yet? What they're building? Why?

What about the aliens and their enemies from the "Shadows of the Past" adventure in the Nyotekundu Sourcebook? Have we encountered them? (Either of these last two allow for the insertion of Psychic abilities, even if Humans aren't allowed to have them).

New races?

What about the American treaty which allowed the Scandinavian Union (among many others) to colonize one of the post-Vegan planets (Alighieri or Highland, IIRC)? What's been done there, in the last 20 years?

What about the Ylii? Has compter-tech taken off since we met them? Have colonies gotten "greener" under their influence? Have they tried to adopt Humanity? What do they think of the Xiang?

Are the Sung Pentapod upgrades of the small food-critters on the Xiangs' Homeworld, and is their "Sea-Mother" a spacefaring PentaGoddess?

What new wprlds have been explored?

What is the current stutterwarp limit, after integrating Kafer Stutter-tech and Ylii computer-tech?

What have those lost Mexicans been up to, all these years? Did their Machismo save us, in the nick of time, in the Kafer War?

Just some thoughts...

I don't think SW works that way, I think a "misjump" is impossible. Still, if the ship was a freeze ship, they could still be alive and waiting to be found....

Zeta Reticulii is being dealt with. One of the non-canon listmembers (Tom Vickers) got the plot from the writer of Ranger is is writing the followup.

The Pentapods are apparently confined to the one world (their homeworld) and haven't colonised elsewhere, although their bullets have.

The SU thing was Avalon. I can't see it happening, it's just AECA trying to push through a budget increase.

Bryn

 

[robmyers]

Originally posted by BMonnery:

I don't think SW works that way, I think a "misjump" is impossible. Still, if the ship was a freeze ship, they could still be alive and waiting to be found....

Zeta Reticulii is being dealt with. One of the non-canon listmembers (Tom Vickers) got the plot from the writer of Ranger is is writing the followup.

The Pentapods are apparently confined to the one world (their homeworld) and haven't colonised elsewhere, although their bullets have.

Stutterwarp is a fairly local tunneling phenomenon. That said, if you measure where the ship is whilst in stutter, you could fork to another universe.
"Why, once we 'warped into a whole other universe, what with the women in charge and time running backwards. But it was just for 1/1000th of a second, and we only saw it from radio transmissions the onboard computer cached." - 'Unreliable' Jim Nolson, veteran spacer.

If warp failed and the ship had any sort of habitat onboard, the ship would end up a generation ship.

I've been waiting for ages for Thomas to write up the Eber scenario, I'm looking forward to seeing what he comes up with.

The 'pods have an enclave on Beta Canum and IIRC there's a couple of stars between their homeworld and the French Arm, so who knows what's there?
"My friend who spent a couple of months at Nyotekundu met someone who went to Pentapod space with an exploratory mission and saw a world terraformed to look like Earth. The 'Pods are just waiting to get our DNA so they can populate it, he reckoned." - 'Unreliable' Jim Nolson, veteran spacer.

 

[GJD]

I'm hoping that the Kafer war won't just be neatly tied up, so to speak. I can see the Kafers are never going to reach a peace with 'The smart Barbarians' and unless humanity is prepared to undertake a campaign of genocide or subjugation, its just going to drag on and on. Humanity is either going to have to fight a united kafers nation (and see the bit about geometric prgression in the Kafer sourcebook) or have to find a way to contain them.

I'd also like to see some more colonial tensions. Lots of these colony worlds and nations are now getting to the level of maturity where they are going to want greater degrees of self determination. For instance, the colonies on Elysia have been around for, what, 200 years. Can you imagine if the US had still been a British colony after that long! A few new nations, and perhaps some interstellar wars of independance would be good, IMHO.

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by GJD:
I'm hoping that the Kafer war won't just be neatly tied up, so to speak. I can see the Kafers are never going to reach a peace with 'The smart Barbarians' and unless humanity is prepared to undertake a campaign of genocide or subjugation, its just going to drag on and on. Humanity is either going to have to fight a united kafers nation (and see the bit about geometric prgression in the Kafer sourcebook) or have to find a way to contain them.

I'd also like to see some more colonial tensions. Lots of these colony worlds and nations are now getting to the level of maturity where they are going to want greater degrees of self determination. For instance, the colonies on Elysia have been around for, what, 200 years. Can you imagine if the US had still been a British colony after that long! A few new nations, and perhaps some interstellar wars of independance would be good, IMHO.

I agree on the Kafer War. IMHO it can go two ways, Terra can try and invade the Kafers, causing them to unite against Terra (and TD had >1/3rd of their strength), or they can go into an internal civil war phase, with the OS taking TDs territory and settling for a frontier, with occassional sniping across it (particularly on the Ylii worlds).

The colonies are already moving away. Take Britain for example:

Wellon: granted Dominion status 60 years ago and total independence (within various treaties) 25 years ago (as of 2301)

Alicia: granted Dominion status

New Africa: ?

Crater and New Cornwall: Crown Colonies (government appointed by the UK, advised by a local assembly).

Britain seems to have accepted the inevitable, and may remain a power for another century because of it.

Germany OTOH has independence movements in most of its colonies, probably a reaction to the change of government from the loose "Commonwealth" of Bavaria to a centralised "German" government. The French too have problems, but are held together by a common identity.

America is bound to loose Tirania and New Columbia eventually, but may incorporate Hermes into the US, like they have Ellis.

If you us the NC rather than SM writeup, then New Canberra is a colony in the old sense, a people dominating another nationality and this can't hold. The same goes for Huntsland as New Columbia.

Japan is written up by Ed as a commonwealth style federation and so may hold together.

By 2400AD, I doubt Earth will hold any colonies, but rather there will be other governments on other worlds, but by 2320 I don't know how far the process will have got.

Bryn

 

[robmyers]

Originally posted by BMonnery:

I agree on the Kafer War. IMHO it can go two ways, Terra can try and invade the Kafers, causing them to unite against Terra (and TD had >1/3rd of their strength), or they can go into an internal civil war phase, with the OS taking TDs territory and settling for a frontier, with occassional sniping across it (particularly on the Ylii worlds).

I'm not sure Earth's strong enough to take on the full might of the Kafers straight after the Invasion. Triumphant Destiny's defeat is more likely to unify the Kafer nations in fear rather than cause infighting. It would take Earth about, say, twenty years to get ready to defend itself properly, before which point the bugs would have to strike pre-emptively to avoid being wiped out.

By 2400AD, I doubt Earth will hold any colonies, but rather there will be other governments on other worlds, but by 2320 I don't know how far the process will have got.

I agree, it'll just be the interstellar equivalent of the Falkland Islands by 2400: a few rocks and some vacuum penguins. By 2320 there will definitely be Australian-style independence movements in some colonies. Maybe even some American-style ones. I'm not sure throwing bread off the beanstalk will have the same effect as throwing tea in the harbour, but it's an image. Earth's failure to protect the colonies won't have helped.

- Rob.

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by robmyers:

Originally posted by BMonnery:
[qb]

I agree on the Kafer War. IMHO it can go two ways, Terra can try and invade the Kafers, causing them to unite against Terra (and TD had >1/3rd of their strength), or they can go into an internal civil war phase, with the OS taking TDs territory and settling for a frontier, with occassional sniping across it (particularly on the Ylii worlds).

I'm not sure Earth's strong enough to take on the full might of the Kafers straight after the Invasion. Triumphant Destiny's defeat is more likely to unify the Kafer nations in fear rather than cause infighting. It would take Earth about, say, twenty years to get ready to defend itself properly, before which point the bugs would have to strike pre-emptively to avoid being wiped out.

The O/S's objective was for TD and its allies to be killed in human space, allowing it to take TD's powerbase. Its achieved this objective, and now has the rebel Suzerains to deal with. TDs war with the humans is little to do with it, its another nations war. OTOH, a lack of Terran understanding may bring the O/S into conflict with them, which is bad news (the O/S has 90+% of the Kafer population)

Bryn

 

[SteveC]

Originally posted by robmyers:

- Rob, who may have originated the word "Pentagod".

Heya, Rob! You in on this re-write?

 

[GJD]

Originally posted by thrash:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GJD:
For instance, the colonies on Elysia have been around for, what, 200 years. Can you imagine if the US had still been a British colony after that long!

Just a reminder: 1783 - 1608 = 175 years of technical British rule. If you don't consider the matter of American independence entirely settled until after the War of 1812, it's more than 200 years. </font>[/QUOTE]I did modern (C20) history in school, and that was nearly 15 years ago, so forgive me if my estimates were off by a few years, but you get my drift.

Mind you, there are some that might feel that the matter of US independence (or rebellion, depending on your point of view) has never really been settled...

I'm just kidding, of course.

 

[GJD]

Originally posted by BMonnery:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robmyers:

Originally posted by BMonnery:
[qb]

I agree on the Kafer War. IMHO it can go two ways, Terra can try and invade the Kafers, causing them to unite against Terra (and TD had >1/3rd of their strength), or they can go into an internal civil war phase, with the OS taking TDs territory and settling for a frontier, with occassional sniping across it (particularly on the Ylii worlds).

The O/S's objective was for TD and its allies to be killed in human space, allowing it to take TD's powerbase. Its achieved this objective, and now has the rebel Suzerains to deal with. TDs war with the humans is little to do with it, its another nations war. OTOH, a lack of Terran understanding may bring the O/S into conflict with them, which is bad news (the O/S has 90+% of the Kafer population)

Bryn

</font>

Plus, the OS represents a single leader for the Kafers, notionally now controlling the largest power block. Humans don't have that single point of leadership or control, as was evident in the problems with leadership during the Kafer War. Short term national interests may not nessecarily lay in the same direction as the best long term interests for the species, leading some countries to go their own way. We've already seen that America is willing to take the initative, leading the probing raids to Arcturus and instigating Operation Backdoor. It may be that the developments to the "Kafer Threat" come about as a result of one nation, or a small group of nations, antagonising the entire Kafer race. I'm not suggesting that this would be the US/Australian/Ukrain triumvate, it might well be a Chinese fleet that goes stomping past Arcturus (far fetched, I know) and hacks off the OS.

 

[robmyers]

Originally posted by SteveC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by robmyers:

- Rob, who may have originated the word "Pentagod".

Heya, Rob! You in on this re-write? </font>

Oh, if only. But I like the sound of what Colin's doing with the project and I'm very excited about it.

- Rob.

 

[robmyers]

Originally posted by BMonnery:

The O/S's objective was for TD and its allies to be killed in human space, allowing it to take TD's powerbase.

Rilly? I know TD was acting alone (ish), but I didn't realise the Over Suzerain wanted it/them/however one refers to a Kafer/ to fail.

- Rob.

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by robmyers:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BMonnery:

The O/S's objective was for TD and its allies to be killed in human space, allowing it to take TD's powerbase.

Rilly? I know TD was acting alone (ish), but I didn't realise the Over Suzerain wanted it/them/however one refers to a Kafer/ to fail.

- Rob. </font>

TD wasn't acting alone in the main invasion of 2301 (the 2297 was entirely TD's forces). It led several suzerains. Checking my KSB it breaks down as:

Ch*gh'ng (The Oversuzerain): Not bright, but aggressive with able lieutenants. Hopes TD will get killed beyond the Gateway stars, and has seized several systems from TD's allies, trying to break up its coalition. Is now realising that TD may invite an invasion of the Smart Barbarians down on them.

Triumphant Destiny: Ultimately plans (planned) to usurp the O/S and unite the whole of the Kafer Collective under its rule. It is using the human threat as a rallying point to unite the other suzerains, and has notional support from 4 others.

Gvah (Name of names): Has no interest in the politicing of TD but truly believes the humans are a grave threat to the Vah, and threw in with TD. The O/S used the human threat as an excuse to seize 2 systems from Gvah, and it considered openly rebelling against the O/S instead (in the end its fleet crossed the frontier)

V'schch*agh!k (What Strikes!): An ultra-loyalist, how perhaps sees itself as the O/S's heir.

Vv'ghahthr (Sky Seizer): Supports TD against the O/S, but had second thoughts, considering itself a more logical successor.

Vagaa Chok'an (Wiley Cunning): In near open rebellion against the O/S and opposing TD as well. WC's ultimate objective is succession from the collective and the formation of an independent empire.

Rrrah: One of the dimer suzerains, with one of the larger domains. A staunch loyalist on ground of principle.

Vakach* (Fight for Fun): One of the two Kafers occupying Ylii space, its objective is finally conquering the Ylii once and for all. It has supported TD as it hopes to gain support for its war against the Ylii.

V'ded'ah (Great One): The second suzerain occupying Ylii space, it also is plotting to "assume the throne" and sees the Ylii as crucial to its plans. It has supported TD but hopes that it and its followers will be killed past the Gateway Stars.

Kafer social structure has each of these 9 suzerains as head of its own government. There is provision for a kind of parliament, where the 9 suzerains meet and literally thrash out (with claws!) policy, or not. The O/S is simply recognised as senior suzerain, rather than a real leader. The Kafer states often fight one another.

With TD dead, Gvah is the natural head of the anti-human coalition, and will probably try to continue offensive action as best it can, fighting a withdrawal back to Kafer space (as of July 2303 the remaining fleet units have withdrawn from Terran space, and only a few cutoff ships and ground forces remain).

V'ded'ahs forces have already come into contact with the Terrans (US-German-Australian forces) which have entered from the backdoor. For the Terrans this is bad news, as V'ded'ah is a considerably better off Suzerain than TD, and its fleet is certainly larger than TDs (TD is known to have 1 Delta, 1 Improved Alpha, 2 Alphas, 4 Betas and 6 Epsilons, which constitute the "bulk of its fleet"). V'ded'ah could smash any American force entering by the backdoor, making it a rather poor approach.

Attacking via the Gateway stars immediately brings Terra into conflict with the O/S, whose powerful fleet is guarding them. However, I don't think the O/S will counterinvade. Simply, unless you cross the border in real force (with something like Graham's combined fleet) you'll be swallowed up.

IMHO: The future holds a stalemate. Attempts to invade the Kafer sphere will prove futile, as the bulk of Kafer power has not been committed. At the same time, Gvah will continue its war against the Terrans but support from other suzerains will wane. Wiley Cunning will rebel, starting a war with the O/S. Rrrah may or may not become involved (on either side). Vakach* will continue to attack the Ylii, while V'ded'ah will sweep aside American incursions and attempt an invasion of the Ylii homeworld.

Bryn

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by GJD:
Plus, the OS represents a single leader for the Kafers, notionally now controlling the largest power block. Humans don't have that single point of leadership or control, as was evident in the problems with leadership during the Kafer War. Short term national interests may not nessecarily lay in the same direction as the best long term interests for the species, leading some countries to go their own way. We've already seen that America is willing to take the initative, leading the probing raids to Arcturus and instigating Operation Backdoor. It may be that the developments to the "Kafer Threat" come about as a result of one nation, or a small group of nations, antagonising the entire Kafer race. I'm not suggesting that this would be the US/Australian/Ukrain triumvate, it might well be a Chinese fleet that goes stomping past Arcturus (far fetched, I know) and hacks off the OS. [/QB]

It's perhaps better to think of the 9 Suzerainities as 9 nations, with the O/S representing the largest (China on todays Earth, France in 2300)? c.f. KSB 44-47.

Within Kafer society, ranks are:

Gnich*luchk'!ah (Suzerain of Power, one of 9 government leaders)
Gnich*ah (Suzerain, literally "Planner". One of the major government ministers, army commander, fleet commander etc.)
Chok'aav (Senior government functionaries, Battalion and Ship commanders etc.)
Gnich* (Literally "thinker", platoon/company leaders)
Chok'av (Government functionaries, squad leaders, snipers, vehicle commanders etc)

Kch*k (disciple?) may also be a position in society as well)

I like to think of it as a feudal structure:

Gnich*luchk'!ah: King
Gnich*ah: Dukes
Chok'aav: Barons
Gnich*: Knights
Chok'av: Squires, freemen etc.

Bryn

 

[robmyers]

Originally posted by BMonnery:

IMHO: The future holds a stalemate. Attempts to invade the Kafer sphere will prove futile, as the bulk of Kafer power has not been committed. At the same time, Gvah will continue its war against the Terrans but support from other suzerains will wane. Wiley Cunning will rebel, starting a war with the O/S. Rrrah may or may not become involved (on either side). Vakach* will continue to attack the Ylii, while V'ded'ah will sweep aside American incursions and attempt an invasion of the Ylii homeworld.
Bryn

I do wonder what Humanity's response to the invasion *can* be. Any effective attack would require a breakthrough in terms of technology or weight of numbers on the Human side (allegedly "Stutterwarp 2" would have filled this role, and the Ylii are clearly positioned to help as well).

On the Kafer side, with Triumphant Destiny's defeat, a genie has been let out of the bottle in Kafer society. The Smart Barbarian menace cannot be ignored. Used to further Kafer leaders own ends, yes, but just swatting Earth ships that cross into the Kafer Sphere won't be enough for Kafer society at large IMHO.

- Rob.

 

[GJD]

The Kafers have a problem that if they do nothing, they are effectivly falling into tyhe same cycle of smart barbarian kafers overrunning city dwelling kafers of their pre-history, with humans taking the place of the smart barbarian kafers. They can't just hole up and defend themselves without getting 'stupid and fat'. At least that's what I would say if i wanted to mobilise the kafers agains humanity. A smart Kafer leader (not the OS, i'm guessing) would point out that the Humans are in their safe places and the kafers have to turn the tables and over-run them, to become the smart barbarians before the humans do it to them.

 

[GJD]

Originally posted by robmyers:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BMonnery:

IMHO: The future holds a stalemate. Attempts to invade the Kafer sphere will prove futile, as the bulk of Kafer power has not been committed. At the same time, Gvah will continue its war against the Terrans but support from other suzerains will wane. Wiley Cunning will rebel, starting a war with the O/S. Rrrah may or may not become involved (on either side). Vakach* will continue to attack the Ylii, while V'ded'ah will sweep aside American incursions and attempt an invasion of the Ylii homeworld.
Bryn

I do wonder what Humanity's response to the invasion *can* be. Any effective attack would require a breakthrough in terms of technology or weight of numbers on the Human side (allegedly "Stutterwarp 2" would have filled this role, and the Ylii are clearly positioned to help as well).

On the Kafer side, with Triumphant Destiny's defeat, a genie has been let out of the bottle in Kafer society. The Smart Barbarian menace cannot be ignored. Used to further Kafer leaders own ends, yes, but just swatting Earth ships that cross into the Kafer Sphere won't be enough for Kafer society at large IMHO.

- Rob. </font>[/QUOTE]How much of an advantage stutterwarp 2 would be depends on what form it takes, but I think the Ylii advances in technology, particually computing technology, will be a huge advantage. The use of remotes and drones, sort of super-smart submunitions, is one advantage I can see, plus enhanced computing power means you can be more accurate in your predictions of where a stutterwarping ship will be going, and hence increase the accuracy of detonation missiles, as they will be more able to predict where to fire.

 

[Colin]

Earth has a response to the Kafers, and the pieces of the puzzle are already in play in the 2300 (2320) universe.

Note that, whatever the response, the Core worlds would be extremely unwilling to commit genocide, even against the Kafers. The scars of the Twilight War run too deep on Earth. On the Frontier, however, especially along the French Arm, others might see things differently.

No matter the effect of the response on the Kafer worlds, they will still have fleets running around causing trouble, even 20 years later.

But really, it's the Pentapods you have to keep an eye on...