Icelandic for Sword Worlders

[rancke]

And that reaction is exactly the kind of response we would see from Solomani PR types in response to the merest suggestion that Vilani might be the source of anything in Terran history (cue certain theories of "ancient aliens").

Actually, it's the reaction of a world-builder who knows for a fact that Sumerian is a Terran language, related to other Terran languages, and that there is no trace of Vilani genes in the Terran gene pool.

This is not only the case in the Real Universe, but also in the OTU. Unless you think that the existence of Vilani genes in the Terran gene pool prior to the Solomani invention of the jump drive wouldn't have come up in the various discussions about the minor or major status of Solomani?


Hans

 

[rancke]

So, Hans, you have a problem with the notion of a Sumerian/Vilani connection?

See previous post. And think for a moment about the implications of such a connection. A group of Vilani with knowledge of TL10 powerful enough to establish themselves as the dominant population group (so dominant that their language replaces the original one), an elite population group with longer life spans¹, and all without leaving behind any trace of advanced technology or Vilani genes. We're detecting Neanderthal genes from tens of thousands of years ago; don't you think we'd be able to detect Vilani genes from thousands of years ago?

¹ Though still not anywhere near the spans claimed by the Bible.​

Hans

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

... you have a problem with the notion of a Sumerian/Vilani connection? Seems like an interesting angle...

And an effectively impossible one. Sumerian was a fully-blown written language by 3300BC (circa -7800 Imperial), and was largely extinct as a spoken tongue by 2000BC (circa -6500 Imperial). The Vilani were in space at that time, but their exploration frontier was hundreds of parsecs away and separated from us by a large swathe of Geonee-settled space and at least a sector beyond that of howling wilderness. Nobody even bothered to reach the Vegans until 1500BC (-6000PI) -- by which time, one may note, Sumerian had been an exclusively liturgical tongue for almost 500 years.

Any similarity between Vilani and Sumerian is one of those things (like the flat galaxy) that should be studiously ignored.

Or it could be fun to include it, purely conjecturally, as a part of the no-doubt vast body of 57th Century crank science woo-hoo that rich Traveller patrons are so prone to believe in -- sort of like a Vilani-supremacist version of people who can't stop talking about Bigfoot, Ancient Droyne Astronauts, and the Bradeeva Conspiracy.

See previous post. And think for a moment about the implications of such a connection. A group of Vilani with knowledge of TL10 powerful enough to establish themselves as the dominant population group (so dominant that their language replaces the original one), an elite population group with longer life spans¹, and all without leaving behind any trace of advanced technology or Vilani genes. We're detecting Neanderthal genes from tens of thousands of years ago; don't you think we'd be able to detect Vilani genes from thousands of years ago?

Never mind the DNA (that would just confuse Vilani science), any decent Ziru Sirka linguist would take less than five minutes to identify Classic Sumerian as a dialect of Archaic Vilani if the two were connected -- maybe a bit longer, if the stranded Vilani had had the wherewithal to invent a new writing system out of whole cloth, just to be cheeky. Archaic Vilani (which would be contemporary with Classic Sumerian) is undoubtedly an extremely well-documented language, and there is certainly enough Sumerian bits lying around to make comparisons with it. Even the most mediocre Vilani linguist could probably read Sumerian right out of the box if the two were related, and how long do you think it would take for the Vilani to crow about it once that was figured out?

¹ Though still not anywhere near the spans claimed by the Bible.​

Nor anywhere near the spans claimed by the Sumerians themselves, who's earliest kings were reported to have reigned for tens of thousands of years at a time.

 

[sayatmenace]

This is why I really wish the para-/demi-canonized Vilani language materials that are floating around out there would be scrapped and purged. There was far too much goofing around with Sumerian (and other actual languages) in it.

Not that I'm the only guilty party in this respect: look at the misery that is T:0, where Vilani government/aristocracy was slapped with names directly copied from Assyrian, without even an attempt to make them "look Vilani" in terms of existing canon -- and yet that nomenclature has been repeated in print and I reckon is pretty much canonized.

Can I get a title/author for this German-Sumerian phrasebook? It doesn't ring any bells, but I think I'd enjoy it.

For somewhat more modern language materials to use as ersatz Travlangs, you can also look up the training materials published by the Peace Corps and the Foreign Service Institute -- as US government works, they're not subject to copyright, and are free. (At least older editions/courses -- I think their work has been privatized since then.)

 

[Timerover51]

This is why I really wish the para-/demi-canonized Vilani language materials that are floating around out there would be scrapped and purged. There was far too much goofing around with Sumerian (and other actual languages) in it.

Not that I'm the only guilty party in this respect: look at the misery that is T:0, where Vilani government/aristocracy was slapped with names directly copied from Assyrian, without even an attempt to make them "look Vilani" in terms of existing canon -- and yet that nomenclature has been repeated in print and I reckon is pretty much canonized.

Can I get a title/author for this German-Sumerian phrasebook? It doesn't ring any bells, but I think I'd enjoy it.

It is more of a means of translating Sumerian cuneiform into a more modern language. I knew the title when I was studying Egyptian in 1978 to 1980, but I would have to see if I can find a cite for it.

For somewhat more modern language materials to use as ersatz Travlangs, you can also look up the training materials published by the Peace Corps and the Foreign Service Institute -- as US government works, they're not subject to copyright, and are free. (At least older editions/courses -- I think their work has been privatized since then.)

I have a fair number of US Army phrase books from World War 2 downloaded from online. Looks like I should make a list and post it.