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ice baby ice

Don't firearms (modern ones, duh) work in outer space? I think they would have even better range, and muzzle velocity (gas expanding to fill a vacuum). And, the oxygen for them is built-in to the cartridge (cartridges are fairly well sealed). (As far as extreme environments, don't they work (poorly) underwater, as well?) The only issue is reactive forces in 0-g. And GG's have that, too.

As long as the weapon was manufactured to appropriate heat/cold tolerances, wouldn't it function in almost any environment?
 
Don't firearms (modern ones, duh) work in outer space? I think they would have even better range, and muzzle velocity (gas expanding to fill a vacuum). And, the oxygen for them is built-in to the cartridge (cartridges are fairly well sealed). (As far as extreme environments, don't they work (poorly) underwater, as well?) The only issue is reactive forces in 0-g. And GG's have that, too.

As long as the weapon was manufactured to appropriate heat/cold tolerances, wouldn't it function in almost any environment?
 
Firearms would work in space for a while, but weapons designed for atmospheric use will have heat and lubrication problems and possible issues with vacuum welding. Firearms not designed for use underwater work work quite poorly and are dangerous to use, as they may explode.

In general, regular firearms should be happy enough in atmosphere types other than 0, B, or C; those atmosphere types would not prevent the weapon from firing, but would be likely to damage the weapon.
 
Originally posted by Fritz88:
Don't firearms (modern ones, duh) work in outer space? I think they would have even better range, and muzzle velocity (gas expanding to fill a vacuum). And, the oxygen for them is built-in to the cartridge (cartridges are fairly well sealed). (As far as extreme environments, don't they work (poorly) underwater, as well?) The only issue is reactive forces in 0-g. And GG's have that, too.

As long as the weapon was manufactured to appropriate heat/cold tolerances, wouldn't it function in almost any environment?
Click to expand...
I don't know about underwater, having the barrel effectively plugged with an uncompressable fluid might not be safe. As for space, I think they would work fine with the mods you suggested. Temperature changes on the ammunition might be a bit tricky and some materials will outgass badly but these could be figured in the design. Maybe 10% extra for "vaccuum-certified" weapons? ;)
There's an essay here that talks about it. I think he may be overstating the case about lubricants, but it's worth a read.
 
Firearms would work in space for a while, but weapons designed for atmospheric use will have heat and lubrication problems and possible issues with vacuum welding. Firearms not designed for use underwater work work quite poorly and are dangerous to use, as they may explode.

In general, regular firearms should be happy enough in atmosphere types other than 0, B, or C; those atmosphere types would not prevent the weapon from firing, but would be likely to damage the weapon.
 
Originally posted by Fritz88:
Don't firearms (modern ones, duh) work in outer space? I think they would have even better range, and muzzle velocity (gas expanding to fill a vacuum). And, the oxygen for them is built-in to the cartridge (cartridges are fairly well sealed). (As far as extreme environments, don't they work (poorly) underwater, as well?) The only issue is reactive forces in 0-g. And GG's have that, too.

As long as the weapon was manufactured to appropriate heat/cold tolerances, wouldn't it function in almost any environment?
Click to expand...
I don't know about underwater, having the barrel effectively plugged with an uncompressable fluid might not be safe. As for space, I think they would work fine with the mods you suggested. Temperature changes on the ammunition might be a bit tricky and some materials will outgass badly but these could be figured in the design. Maybe 10% extra for "vaccuum-certified" weapons? ;)
There's an essay here that talks about it. I think he may be overstating the case about lubricants, but it's worth a read.
 
Interesting stuff. Most of the weapons are from the nearby planet which is tech 7-8 and has an average daily temp in town of 38c.It's more that the players did not take it into account that leaves me ammused. Only one of them has a weapon that is fairly well cold tolerant..he..he..he ;)
 
Interesting stuff. Most of the weapons are from the nearby planet which is tech 7-8 and has an average daily temp in town of 38c.It's more that the players did not take it into account that leaves me ammused. Only one of them has a weapon that is fairly well cold tolerant..he..he..he ;)
 
Thanks Piper for the wind chill charts.I er broke it, it could not do the calculations due to my over enthusiastic wind speed :D
file_22.gif

Poor players.
 
I think that about sums it up Anthony.

penal, do none of these guys know how to make a crossbow? Or, how about melting the permafrost under the attackers - that's not very nice, but it is effective?
 
I think that about sums it up Anthony.

penal, do none of these guys know how to make a crossbow? Or, how about melting the permafrost under the attackers - that's not very nice, but it is effective?
 
The barbarian amongst them is rather good at crossbows, he is also the one with an ACR and willing to fight. I'm sure they will get rescued in time as long as they don't
1)crash another starship
2)roll another ATV
3)Get arrested/offend the highly religious Hindu troops they are with, again!
 
The barbarian amongst them is rather good at crossbows, he is also the one with an ACR and willing to fight. I'm sure they will get rescued in time as long as they don't
1)crash another starship
2)roll another ATV
3)Get arrested/offend the highly religious Hindu troops they are with, again!
 
As for the resistance of ice to TL 7 weapons, ice is both soft and low density, which makes it fairly cruddy armor; ice is probably worse than sandbags, and will have the annoying property that it will shatter rather than absorbing the blow.

However, much like sandbags, it is often possible to collect very large quantities of ice. You're probably better off building ice entrenchments than ice walls, however (for the same reason that earth entrenchments are preferable to earthen walls).
 
As for the resistance of ice to TL 7 weapons, ice is both soft and low density, which makes it fairly cruddy armor; ice is probably worse than sandbags, and will have the annoying property that it will shatter rather than absorbing the blow.

However, much like sandbags, it is often possible to collect very large quantities of ice. You're probably better off building ice entrenchments than ice walls, however (for the same reason that earth entrenchments are preferable to earthen walls).
 
Packed snow will cause a bullet to begin tumbling, but will not stop a bullet unless it is several feet thick.
Ice will shatter into sharp projectiles (Frag) when hit by a bullet.
Packed snow will become ice if soaked with water or put under enough pressure. Do these guys have a mallet or a camp stove?
I must agree with Anthony about entrenchments. They get you out of line of fire instead of just putting frag in the way of incoming rounds.
Energy weapons and ice defenses are absolutly begging for Murphys Law's to make a dramatic appearance.
Steam explosions
Ice melting and refreezing around the feet or buttocks of the poor defenders.
A pressure ridge buckling near or under the unfortunate souls. LOUD! bang! and thrusting! of ice.
Just how thick was the ice and what was under it?
What local wildlife exists? Of course they are hungry.
 
Packed snow will cause a bullet to begin tumbling, but will not stop a bullet unless it is several feet thick.
Ice will shatter into sharp projectiles (Frag) when hit by a bullet.
Packed snow will become ice if soaked with water or put under enough pressure. Do these guys have a mallet or a camp stove?
I must agree with Anthony about entrenchments. They get you out of line of fire instead of just putting frag in the way of incoming rounds.
Energy weapons and ice defenses are absolutly begging for Murphys Law's to make a dramatic appearance.
Steam explosions
Ice melting and refreezing around the feet or buttocks of the poor defenders.
A pressure ridge buckling near or under the unfortunate souls. LOUD! bang! and thrusting! of ice.
Just how thick was the ice and what was under it?
What local wildlife exists? Of course they are hungry.
 
Originally posted by Fritz88:
Don't firearms (modern ones, duh) work in outer space? I think they would have even better range, and muzzle velocity (gas expanding to fill a vacuum). And, the oxygen for them is built-in to the cartridge (cartridges are fairly well sealed). (As far as extreme environments, don't they work (poorly) underwater, as well?) The only issue is reactive forces in 0-g. And GG's have that, too.

As long as the weapon was manufactured to appropriate heat/cold tolerances, wouldn't it function in almost any environment?
Click to expand...
The issue is really how far a bullet can travel underwater and still be effective. Or in a more severe case (at lower depths) will the pressure of the water force fire a round already in the chamber? Similarly would the same thing occur in a high pressure atmosphere (though such an atmosphere would probably kill any trooper, BD or HES not withstanding).

Vaccum can be a tricky thing, particularly for support weapons which generate a lot of heat. Most weapons assume ambient convection to cool them off, but even on a world where air is plentiful and blowing hard a weapon like a SAW will wear out its barrel under repeated use. Take that same weapon and put it in low orbit, and suddenly the barrel'll wear out a whole lot faster because there's no medium to carry away the heat.

Similarly a Gauss Gun rated for vaccum operation probably doesn't need to be sealed, or given anykind of special adapting because there's no explosive force for the weapon's material to contend with. Now, if you took that same weapon 100 feet below the surface of a lake you might fry its electronics, or any exposed (or semi-exposed) wires and/or circuitry.

Anyway, I'm sure there're other examples and counter-examples, but those are just my knee jerk reactions :D
 
Originally posted by Fritz88:
Don't firearms (modern ones, duh) work in outer space? I think they would have even better range, and muzzle velocity (gas expanding to fill a vacuum). And, the oxygen for them is built-in to the cartridge (cartridges are fairly well sealed). (As far as extreme environments, don't they work (poorly) underwater, as well?) The only issue is reactive forces in 0-g. And GG's have that, too.

As long as the weapon was manufactured to appropriate heat/cold tolerances, wouldn't it function in almost any environment?
Click to expand...
The issue is really how far a bullet can travel underwater and still be effective. Or in a more severe case (at lower depths) will the pressure of the water force fire a round already in the chamber? Similarly would the same thing occur in a high pressure atmosphere (though such an atmosphere would probably kill any trooper, BD or HES not withstanding).

Vaccum can be a tricky thing, particularly for support weapons which generate a lot of heat. Most weapons assume ambient convection to cool them off, but even on a world where air is plentiful and blowing hard a weapon like a SAW will wear out its barrel under repeated use. Take that same weapon and put it in low orbit, and suddenly the barrel'll wear out a whole lot faster because there's no medium to carry away the heat.

Similarly a Gauss Gun rated for vaccum operation probably doesn't need to be sealed, or given anykind of special adapting because there's no explosive force for the weapon's material to contend with. Now, if you took that same weapon 100 feet below the surface of a lake you might fry its electronics, or any exposed (or semi-exposed) wires and/or circuitry.

Anyway, I'm sure there're other examples and counter-examples, but those are just my knee jerk reactions :D
 
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