thesmiths4
SOC-8
Good point. Patience, I suppose, is the best advice, then. Thanks for your take on this!
I just got T-5
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I agree that T5 is workable too. I like the T5 feel, but i was hoping for an errata release that patched glaring holes in an "as-is" fashion. So, I've spent my free time analyzing OTU. I think we all can appreciate those that have put time into testing, and free tools.
As for an updated CD someday, Marc does a better job keeping his word than many of the vendors out there.
As for an updated CD someday, Marc does a better job keeping his word than many of the vendors out there.
Thoom
SOC-11
I'm guessing that most of you have been Traveller referees for a while (perhaps through multiple editions), so that you can "patch the holes" (as you yourself put it) and so find T5 playable. I know I do that in many other systems I'm used to referee.
But, as a first time referee trying to use T5, I find it very hard, and trying to read the book with the partial errata open and the forum errata thread open to see if the page I'm reading should be read as is or modified, or might be modified because of open questions, is hard.
Thoom, I suspect it has more to do with being old-school gaming experienced than Traveller experienced. I know of a few old-schoolers whose first exposure to Traveller was T5, and they're having little issue except the sheer bulk.
That said - it's a resource kit, not a teaching manual.
That said - it's a resource kit, not a teaching manual.
Aramis is right, but there is more to it. I'm pretty busy with numerous activities. I have endeavored to address my OTU concerns, but "be careful what you ask for". I really just don't have the time to walk through and build an errata.
Marc has a schedule somewhere. He may be putting an errata into it somewhere. I would like it if he mentioned a rough schedule of his releases, activities so that we understood what other things we're coming in.
As someone mentioned, he's one guy and he may have a couple people assisting a bit but its not the GDW army. He also doesn't have a partner like Frank or even a Loren doing peer reviews. We cannot hold up the same expectations.
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Thoom
SOC-11
I have 31 years experience in gaming. How old are you?
And a resource kit isn't a teaching manual, but it's not a game either.
Thoom
SOC-11
I understand Marc is one guy. All I said is I wish he'd communicate more so we know where things stand. Communication goes a long way to alleviate perception problems, and I don't think it's too much to ask, considering.
Anyways, I was trying to give my perspective on things in reply to those saying they manage well with T5 as is, but apparently it's simply that I'm too slow witted.
I am sure your wits are fine.
Marc's layout for the T5 reference book lacks examples. I think that is the Achilles heal that confused everyone. I believe I have re-iterated that a communications plan would be nice to have.
You know, something like this example:
T5 Reference monolith- full of tables - 2013
T5 products (dice, t-shirts, cards via kickstarter) - 2013
T5 errata updates - every quarter
T5 Deckplans set 1 - 2014
T5 Galaxian historical background book - 2014
T5 players guide - 2014
T5 High Guard - 2015
T5 etc....
When you look at this, he looks much more busy.
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
I started my first RPG in 1976, my first board wargame in 1974 (warning, board wargames are a gateway drug). Most around here are similarly well versed.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
One of my problems with T5 is that I don't trust it. I've found enough broken mechanics that, every time I see something new in the game that I kinda like, I find myself spending way too much time testing the new mechanic to see if its any good. It gets a bit irritating. I don't want to do this, but I feel I have to--or just not use the game (which is where I've been leaning).
I'm hopeful (always hopeful, when it comes to Traveller), that the game will eventually be fixed, completely.
I'm hopeful (always hopeful, when it comes to Traveller), that the game will eventually be fixed, completely.
I've been RPGing about 34 years. Wargaming longer.
If you started in the mid 80, the odds are good you really don't have a true "old school" mindset, as, by the mid 80's, most games except Traveller & D&D had moved away from the very schematic rules presentation of CT and D&D, and the construction set mentality.
T5 is more complete than Books 1-3, and includes more introductory material. If you truly had significant old school mentality experience, you'd look at T5 and see the game, and it would be "slap you upside the head" obvious. You might not like the game you saw, but you'd see the game.
I learned on D&D (little digest sized books) in the late 70s, and still run 1st edition Chivalry & Sorcery today. Is that old school?
And when I look at T5, I don't see a game at all. I see a bunch of ideas, mostly good, some bad, that are poorly organized, and in far too many cases, contradictory. And basically no chance that will ever change. Marc's got too much on his plate for one person to do, and is unwilling to let anyone help where he needs it the most.
I've said it before: he desperately need the services of a professional editor with game design experience. Without that, T5 is just too much for the resources he has available (mostly time) by himself. In programming, it takes the form of "for every bug you fix, you introduce more than one new bug," which happens somewhere a little before a million lines of code. In roleplaying games, it apparently happens somewhere before 700 pages of rules.
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