How many subsectors have you hand-created from scratch?

[robject]

Traveller has a toolkit mentality, right? From the beginning, you could roll the same sort of subsector that the publishers rolled up. I mean, this may be a bigger thing than you might think, so I'll repeat it.

From the beginning, you could roll the same sort of subsector that the publishers rolled up.

Think about it.

Anyway, how many subsectors have you created, by hand, from scratch, starting from a completely and totally blank subsector grid?

 

[BRJN]

I found four partially- or wholly- complete subsector UWPs (or text notes on worlds) in my Traveller notebook. None of them are meant to interact with each other.

That doesn't include anything I threw out over the years, whether because I didn't like it, it got all wet after a storm, &c.

 

[Ptah]

Traveller has a toolkit mentality, right? From the beginning, you could roll the same sort of subsector that the publishers rolled up. I mean, this may be a bigger thing than you might think, so I'll repeat it.

From the beginning, you could roll the same sort of subsector that the publishers rolled up.

Think about it.

Anyway, how many subsectors have you created, by hand, from scratch, starting from a completely and totally blank subsector grid?

I believe I got Traveller Christmas '78. I spent the next three days generating sectors. Generated 1 sector plus many surrounding sub sectors, still use the core sector to this day, although have modified the stellar primary types to reflect more M type stars and added in a few of my own "stellar types".

 

[Enoki]

I've only created a few. As of late I've been increasing the amount of stuff I have done on the sectors and subsectors of the known Traveller space map. My view is "Why reinvent the wheel?"

There's plenty of stuff in that map that hasn't been touched. The Spinward Marches has been done to death by comparison.

 

[agorski]

In testing my recent iOS SectorMaker app, I created quite a few!

 

[Whipsnade]

I chose more than 16 because we didn't own any published subsectors for years.

IIRC, the first published subsector I saw was in A:1 Kinunir and the first published sector was in The Spinward Marches Campaign. I owned SMC for a few years before I saw S:3.

 

[aramis]

5 by hand.

about 200 when testing Rob Prior's excellent tool for MacOS 9... just before Mac OSX launched, and made it incompatible.

 

[ffilz]

Why the emphasis on by hand? Even back in the late 70s if I had got big into Traveller I might well have written a program to roll up UWPs (I had access to computers and printers at my high school).

I have rolled world placement and star port by hand for several sub-sectors even in the past two years (and I'm sure at least one or two back in the day). I rolled at least some UWPs for those recent sub-sectors by hand.

My current campaign runs in about 3 sub-sectors worth of space. I hand rolled star ports and space lanes, but a computer generated all the UWPs for me. I've done tweaking by hand.

I've not answered the poll because there really isn't a good answer for me.

Frank

 

[nobby-w]

Back when I were a lad I rolled up a whole sector. That was quite hard work in the end. Plus, I've rolled up quite a few subsectors in clusters of one or two.

Then I got a computer and worked out that you could automate it. Never looked back, although they often got the attention of a text editor.

 

[Timerover51]

I have one just about done for my Piper-Norton Out Rim sector, with 5 partially done. I am not sure what you mean by hand, as I am starting to work with Agorski's Sectormaker tool. However, I am using that as a starting point, and then changing each subsector around as needed. Does that count by hand then?

 

[infojunky]

One Cruise while I was in the service I got stuck on Boat Watch a Lot. So I sat in the Boat waiting for a order to Launch at moments notice rolling up worlds....

 

[aramis]

Why the emphasis on by hand? Even back in the late 70s if I had got big into Traveller I might well have written a program to roll up UWPs (I had access to computers and printers at my high school).

Frank

Because, when rolling by hand, it's far more likely, almost inevitable, that a few rolls get changed. It's interactive in a way pressing a button isn't. And further, it's a time-taking activity which is itself a form of play; pushing the button on a generator isn't.

I never used any of the computer done ones. Never. I did use all 5 of the hand rolled ones.

 

[Timerover51]

One of my biggest problems in developing an entire sector is naming all of the planets. Using Piper and Norton helps, as well as having certain sub-sector have a primary theme. All of the names are from me, not the generator, which is also true of the planetary characteristics.

 

[Ulsyus]

I've been working on a sector. Man, that's a bit of work that has to be done so that it all hangs together. The current line of effort is to complete some courier/Xboat routes, which means amending Importance for the addition of a Way Station...

 

[ffilz]

One of my biggest problems in developing an entire sector is naming all of the planets. Using Piper and Norton helps, as well as having certain sub-sector have a primary theme. All of the names are from me, not the generator, which is also true of the planetary characteristics.

When I was setting up my Wine Dark Rift region (the rift itself spans two sub-sectors, to give enough wiggle room around the rift, I extend up and right into adjacent sub-sectors, so the whole region is almost 3 sub-sectors (234 hexes vs. 3x80 = 240). Also running a Wilderlands of High Fantasy OD&D game, I got the idea to name the rift The Wine Dark Rift. I then looked at the Wilderlands maps and started copying place names from them that were on or near the Wine Dark Sea until I had enough names. I then merged them with the world list, and then after printing the map with sec2pdf and seeing where names landed, I moved a few around and changed one or two slightly to make some more consistent looking names (there's a polity with sort of Arabic looking names). I then asked folks if they recognized the source of the names... (pretty easy with Tegel being the one Class-A world in the portion of my Imperium that is in the region...).

As to hand vs. computer...

I rolled all the star ports and space lanes by hand (after rough outlining the rift and NOT rolling world placement in the rift), and yes, a few things got fudged. Then I typed all of the hex numbers and star ports into a document and used it as input to a world generation program I wrote. I may have hand rolled a few worlds and placed one or two UWPs (from adventures that I knew I wanted). After that was output, I then hand tweaked a few (in some cases, to drop some overly high Tech Levels in places I didn't want a high TL). All UWPs are subject to change (in fact, one got changed due to my NOT sharing the right map so it didn't get shared with the intended UWP to fit the planned adventure, in the end, the UWP is a mashup of the adventure UWP and the original UWP). If I need to change a UWP because it really doesn't make sense when I go to actively develop the world I will. If I decide I really want to use a particular adventure and need to change a UWP, I will (it need not match the adventure's UWP exactly of course).

Using a computer doesn't mean I can't tweak and fudge things. Yes, it does remove the mini-game of rolling dice and looking up on tables and figuring DMs etc. Honestly, I don't have that sort of time anymore, so, computer assisted it is for me...

Frank

 

[robject]

Beating a Horse to Death

I learned Perl in 1994. I learned it precisely because I was using C to generate subsectors, and Perl was recommended to me as a better way to do it.

I've written many Traveller tools to do everything, because like every human, I don't have the time to do it all by hand.

When someone generates a subsector by hand, they're playing Traveller. So when I ask how many subsectors you have generated by hand, that is shorthand for asking how many times you've played that subset of Traveller.

The data (so far) seems to indicate that this was more common in the earliest years, and less common now, due to setting material and automation.

 

[Whipsnade]

Why the emphasis on by hand?

First, you're confusing "hand rolled" with the terms the OP used: "hand-created" and "hand-built".

Second, look at your own Wine Dark Rift. You rolled ports and space lanes by hand, next used a program to create the raw UWPs, and then adjusted some of those UWPs by hand.

So why don't you tell us why the emphasis on by hand?

 

[Whipsnade]

The data (so far) seems to indicate that this was more common in the earliest years, and less common now, due to setting material and automation.

Agreed. While more setting materials and computer programs have done away with the "stoop labor" required to "roll up" a subsector or sector, neither much effected the work needed to the "tweak" or "tune" a subsector or sector.

The Pareto principle had been firmly in effect. You spent 20% of your time doing 80% of the work rolling up UWP after UWP. You then spent 80% of your time "tweaking" the 20% of those UWPs which caught you eye. When the former is either automated or "pre-rolled", the time freed up isn't necessarily saved but more likely to instead be spent on the latter tweaking/tuning more individual UWPs.

Automated or "pre-rolled" UWPs just allow a referee to spend more time on other things. In many cases it's a shift of emphasis more than a labor savings.

 

[ffilz]

First, you're confusing "hand rolled" with the terms the OP used: "hand-created" and "hand-built".

Second, look at your own Wine Dark Rift. You rolled ports and space lanes by hand, next used a program to create the raw UWPs, and then adjusted some of those UWPs by hand.

So why don't you tell us why the emphasis on by hand?

I read the initial post "you created, by hand, from scratch, starting from a completely and totally blank subsector grid" as take a piece of paper and pencil, roll dice, look up on tables, change as you see fit.

By that criteria, the Wine Dark Rift isn't hand crafted. But as you point out, there is a lot of hand crafting in the making of the Wine Dark Rift. So sure, if that's the criteria, then I've built a bunch, at least 5+ (the three Wine Dark Rift plus an earlier attempt, plus who knows how many done with paper, dice, and pencil lost to time).

So to answer some of the questions of why I hand crafted stuff...

The Wine Dark Rift got it's origin in riffing off Christopher Kubasik's (creativehum) examination of The Five Sisters and for my purposes, expanding that view into District-268, and then a bit larger to get the whole J1 route around the rift, and then a bit larger to take in some adjacent things. Then deciding I didn't really want to deal with 3I "canon" buffs, plus I thought it more interesting if the "Imperium" came into the rift from the bottom instead of the right. So I sketched out a rift on some hex paper and then started rolling world locations and star ports, and then the space lanes, making a couple tweaks there to make things "look good" and be assured of a J1 route around the rift. Then I turned to the computer to spit out UWPs. As mentioned, I made some tweaks to reduce the TL of some worlds. I made other tweaks so worlds would match up with those in adventures I thought would be fun to use. I also reserve the right to change UWPs in the future as I develop more worlds for actual play.

So why? Because while random generation is useful to spark imagination, sometimes the imagination so sparked doesn't quite match what the dice (or computer) spit out or maybe I just can't make sense of a particular UWP. Or maybe someone puts out a really cool adventure that would drop into things and there isn't a suitable UWP in the area, so out comes the chisel and file and a UWP is changed so the adventure fits in.

Frank

 

[agorski]

I've been working on a sector. Man, that's a bit of work that has to be done so that it all hangs together. The current line of effort is to complete some courier/Xboat routes, which means amending Importance for the addition of a Way Station...

Exactly. Although my app can randomly generate systems based on the stellar density you pick, there's all kinds of fine tuning like this that should be done to get a satisfying result.

Note that when you change a parameter of a mainworld, you need to revisit every parameter that's dependent on that one to get a legal result that Traveller Map will display in POSTER MAKER. For example Importance is dependent on Starport, TechLevel, TradeCodes, Population, and Bases. Importance affects Infrastructure, Acceptance, and Nobility.

My app randomly regenerates these "lower" parameters, so you need to change parameters from "top to bottom" so to speak and will probably re-adjust several things to get the world you want.