• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

How is spacecraft combat supposed to work?

A

AnotherDilbert

SOC-14 1K
Are defences overpowered?

Meson Screens (cheap, compact) automatically stops Meson Guns?
Nuclear Dampers (cheap, compact) automatically stops Nukes?
AM AB S-L-Ms stops any number of missile attacks, even massive KK missiles?
AM AB S-L-Ms stops any number of beam attacks?
Even civilian ships have enormous AV against beam attacks?
A layer or two of anti-Rad easily protects against PAs (and does not degrade)?

What's left, ramming and boarding?
 
Is there a war between Imperial ships going on somewhere? Or do they only happen when players show up in the Traveller Universe?
 
I too have been faced with these problems. Its probably my fault for attempting to use the T5 rules for a homebrew setting, but ship combat feels almost impossible to run. The biggest culprits are already stated above.

I typically get around the issue by being more cinematic, and by refusing to allow my players to build up an armada. Boarding actions are common in the current campaign, helped by the fact that the players designed their cargo bay to 'swallow' ships under 200T.
 
My problem is in the level of detail, as always. I'm not a very good High Guard player; I don't get off on the accounting detail. That makes me a "light" wargamer.

So when I look at Traveller ship combat rules, I'm always looking at where the corners can be cut, and where there's unnecessary detail that can be simplified or even (horrors) ignored completely.

Then when I look at Traveller5 ship combat rules, I know there's a game in there somewhere, but what I read is Marc's thoughts on how combat systems interact with each other. But I don't feel like the rules are an actual *game*, as in something I could sit down with Dave McKienzie and actually play out in a satisfying or enjoyable session of blasting the bejeezus out of the bad guy's ships.

So here's how I am approaching it:

I backed off and came at it in a different direction: I told Marc to write prose on what he thinks a ship battle looks like. He has two in AOTI, and they're brief and almost without firing guns -- in other words almost completely unlike space battles. And then I wrote a little prose on what I think a ship battle might look like, and I got as far as the setup but haven't followed through with the actual BATTLE itself.

Because getting the prose out of Marc, and showing Marc prose portraying Traveller space combat in theory, is the best way to get consensus and understand what he sees. The interactions printed in Traveller5 show what numbers he's thinking about. And we have prior art of all existing other ship combat rules from other Traveller games to draw from. From there I can guesstimate and work out a playable set of rules.

I can do this because Marc likes elegant rules, too, but feels the pull to kitchen-sink things. If I get an elegant set of rules in front of him, and he likes it, he will resonate with it and we'll have a solution. Then he'll suggest a dozen tweaks, own the text, I'll stop him from over-doing it, and we'll have it.
 
robject said:
My problem is in the level of detail, as always. I'm not a very good High Guard player; I don't get off on the accounting detail. That makes me a "light" wargamer.
Click to expand...
I rather agree, an RPG combat should be fairly quick, so as to not take an entire session.

Which is why I like HG as the least detailed space combat system I know in Traveller. I don't have to keep track of every missile, or the movement of every ship. Adding a third ship does not stall the timing of the combat.

It can be played with only USP (or LBB2 style ship card), without any laborious detailed hit charts.

It is also well defined, so I never have to wonder how things should be done, or in what order (like a wargame). As Referee I can override whatever I want, but it is nice that the basic system is sound.


I'm also gearhead enough to enjoy building ships and see how they work, so a combat system based on a simple attack and defence factor (like Imperium) is in my opinion too simple.
 
robject said:
My problem is in the level of detail, as always. I'm not a very good High Guard player; I don't get off on the accounting detail. That makes me a "light" wargamer.

So when I look at Traveller ship combat rules, I'm always looking at where the corners can be cut, and where there's unnecessary detail that can be simplified or even (horrors) ignored completely.

Then when I look at Traveller5 ship combat rules, I know there's a game in there somewhere, but what I read is Marc's thoughts on how combat systems interact with each other. But I don't feel like the rules are an actual *game*, as in something I could sit down with Dave McKienzie and actually play out in a satisfying or enjoyable session of blasting the bejeezus out of the bad guy's ships.

So here's how I am approaching it:

I backed off and came at it in a different direction: I told Marc to write prose on what he thinks a ship battle looks like. He has two in AOTI, and they're brief and almost without firing guns -- in other words almost completely unlike space battles. And then I wrote a little prose on what I think a ship battle might look like, and I got as far as the setup but haven't followed through with the actual BATTLE itself.

Because getting the prose out of Marc, and showing Marc prose portraying Traveller space combat in theory, is the best way to get consensus and understand what he sees. The interactions printed in Traveller5 show what numbers he's thinking about. And we have prior art of all existing other ship combat rules from other Traveller games to draw from. From there I can guesstimate and work out a playable set of rules.

I can do this because Marc likes elegant rules, too, but feels the pull to kitchen-sink things. If I get an elegant set of rules in front of him, and he likes it, he will resonate with it and we'll have a solution. Then he'll suggest a dozen tweaks, own the text, I'll stop him from over-doing it, and we'll have it.
Click to expand...

Coming as I do from the land of Star Fleet Battles, and entire game session consisting of basically 3 turns of combat (when starting on the same map), I am in agreement that for role play purposes the mechanics should be quick and easy, allowing for expansive colorful storytelling and not bogged down in minutiae.

Of course, that would be space combat for Adventure Class ships. Combat for Battle Class Ships should very much work on the order of SFB since PCs on those ships would have effects on the outcome like "legendary" characters in SFB---weps giving you a bonus to hit, engineering better damage control, etc.
 
Perhaps the battle breaks down to missile volleys and laser point defense when everything else cancels out. In this case meson guns become a great weapon against inferior technology but of little actual value against your peers.
 
David Johansen said:
Perhaps the battle breaks down to missile volleys and laser point defense when everything else cancels out. In this case meson guns become a great weapon against inferior technology but of little actual value against your peers.
Click to expand...

Way back in CT:HG there was an option to effectively neuter MGs via the full combo of agility, ship hull and Meson Screens. PA spinals kept that from being the 'I win' button.
 
AnotherDilbert said:
Are defences overpowered?

Meson Screens (cheap, compact) automatically stops Meson Guns?
Nuclear Dampers (cheap, compact) automatically stops Nukes?
AM AB S-L-Ms stops any number of missile attacks, even massive KK missiles?
AM AB S-L-Ms stops any number of beam attacks?
Even civilian ships have enormous AV against beam attacks?
A layer or two of anti-Rad easily protects against PAs (and does not degrade)?

What's left, ramming and boarding?
Click to expand...

Sounds like Albedo combat.

The answer there was AI missile launcher drones closing on suicide approaches. In a cloud of missile launches, just one kinetic impact at frac-c does the job.

But I assume T5 doesn't do vee maneuver, does it?
 
David Johansen said:
Perhaps the battle breaks down to missile volleys and laser point defense when everything else cancels out.
Click to expand...
Each point defence mount can engage every missile and beam attack, and we can mount them on firmpoints (three per 100 Dt). Effectively if an attack can be defended against, it will be.


David Johansen said:
In this case meson guns become a great weapon against inferior technology but of little actual value against your peers.
Click to expand...
A 1 Dt meson screen will automatically stop all meson attacks, and experimental versions can be built at TL-10.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

kafka47
Megatraveller Tidbits from HIWG CD Rom
Replies
19
Views
7K
Vargr Breath
V
Back
Top