How do you use Tactics?

[McPerth]

I like the tactics pool from MT.

I think it may be abused too easily for me to like it...

 

[bjjones37]

Of course, that will depend on how do you intend to resolve the situation (I mean what rules you intend to use).

If you intend to use any RPG man-to-man combat (be it LBB1, MT or AHL), then I wish you luck, as controlling the 90+ men and several vehicles involved will need lots of bookeeping and probably will bog down the bame to pure boredom.

I won't talk about using Striker (though it probably seems to be the most apropiate rules set) as I don't know it..

If you use the abstract system in LBB4:

• US has a platoon, I guess NVA/VC would count as a reinforced platoon too, so I'd set it as among a company and a platoon. Modifiers of platton vs company would be -1 for the platoon and +2 for the company (I'd reduce to -1/+1, as the NVA/VC is not a full company).
• I see it as a firefight (no one clearly attacking), as none of them seems to be in prepared defenses
• TL for US would be 7, for NVS/VC 6, giving a +1 for US and -1 for NVA/VC.
• Let's asume the US Lt has tactics 2, while the NVA Col has tactics 1, so there would be a +1 for US and -1 for NVA/VC.
• I'd give a -1 to NVA /VC for the lack of maneuver capacity they have due to the need to defend a position they'd not chosen (the SAM).

So, finally, the US platoon will have a DM of +1, while the NVA/VC tropos will have a DM of -2.

Let's asume both players roll a 4:

• US roll will be modified to 6, producing 20% losses on NVA/VC troops (12 men downed)
• NVA/VC roll wil lbe modified to 2, producing 5% losses (1.5 men, I'd rule one downed and another lightly wounded)

Now is where cohesion takes effect, with the VC troops having to chek morale (something they are not known for), modified by the NVA Col (or their own leader) leadership and the 20% losses they have received.

The most likely effect is for (or their own) troops to decide that the best part of valor is keeping themselves alive to fight another day, leaving the NVA troops (now reduced to a platoon or a section., depending how losses have been applied) alone, assuming they don't decide to fight another day too....

Should have said this before, but it is nice to see an analysis of this scenario crunched into numbers.

 

[kilemall]

I am casting my vote for the modify player action version with information rolls rather then tactical pool.

One use of tactics with a successful roll would be to anticipate what the enemy will do, allowing the PC to get the jump on possible enemy actions.

Of course this is predicated on the information available to the tactician. A bad recon missing forces, or simply not knowing the reinforcements arrive in two hours, may cause the PC to get incomplete information even despite a success roll.

The tactician however should recognize when the enemy is deploying to receive reinforcements, it just may be too late due to time pressure.

I substitute Forward Observer with Recon, at least treat it that way, so regular forces may have a specialist in that realm of getting information.

 

[McPerth]

Should have said this before, but it is nice to see an analysis of this scenario crunched into numbers.

Glad you liked it.

I am casting my vote for the modify player action version with information rolls rather then tactical pool.

One use of tactics with a successful roll would be to anticipate what the enemy will do, allowing the PC to get the jump on possible enemy actions.

I guess that is represented in MT by using it to modify interrupts...

 

[Supplement Four]

The first thing it suggests to me is that traveller typically works with smaller units.

Well, you've been asking about Classic Traveller, and CT is not a war game. Though there are rules to use with Traveller that handles lots of troops: Striker or the abstract system in Book 4, for example. The tactical point systems in Snapshot and Azhanti High Lightning can also be used, to a point--depending on the number of combatants.

As I see it, you are using tactics to achieve surprise and to provide a modifier to certain Attack (but not Damage) rolls. It would also appear that traveller works more on the scale of a fire team rather than a platoon or company.

Classic Traveller is an rpg meant for a few combatants. One player playing one character. As I said above, Striker is more of a platoon level game that can be used for Traveller.



I didn't use Tactics for Surprise. I suggested its use, based on your description, in two ways. One is that the LT provided a tactic to keep his officers from getting sniped, so I suggested using Tactics to modify a roll for the Sniper to recognize targets.

The other use was by the NPC Colonel. He's got some shifty troops--the VC. I'd probably use the Book 4 Morale rules to see how steady the VC were, and I suggested using the Colonel's Tactics skill to influence that Morale Roll.

Neither of these were an attack or damage roll.

 

[Supplement Four]

This will, again and IMHO, test the players tactics skill, not the character's one...

Once the players start to see how Tactics is used, they'll figure ways to be more tactical in the game.

The Ref can always help out a player who has a character with high Tactics skill but doesn't really know anything about tactics in real life by giving him some suggestions.

Roleplayers are basically smart people. Smarter than average. Most will catch on quick.

 

[Supplement Four]

One will offer a +1 DM on attacks, and you can sneak over there no problem. Or there's another spot that's better, but the cover en route is lighter. You'll get your full Tactics-2 as a +DM if you reach it, but you'll need to make a Throw 6+ to get there without being spotted."

I would refrain from using Tactics as a modifier to an attack roll. There are lots of modifiers already. With weapons like the SMG, you can easily have automatic hits. The 2D6 system is too short on plots. There's only 11 numbers. So, I try to never hand out any modifier to an attack, except for what the book gives you.

I need to add, of course, that these early RPGs explicitly expected the Players to show up,with skill, imagination, and problem solving.

Sing it, brother! :rant: That's the only way to go!

I guess it was not really an appropriate scenario for traveller, but I learned some things anyway.

I'm glad. I'm trying to help.

Read below for some other ways to use Tactics....

I think it may be abused too easily for me to like it...

And, I completely agree with this. The MT Tactics Pool is too easily abused in that it becomes a Pool of bonus modifiers without a lot of Tactics behind them.

Tactics, like most skills, isn't used all the time. Combat scenarios happens without a bonus from Tactics happening. Like a roll pilot a speeder in a chase, or an Mechanics roll to fix the jeep's engine, the test of Tactics happens when appropriate. It must be justified.

This is why I said that the MT Tactics pool is too closed for CT. In CT, the Tactics skill can be used in a number of ways, all dependent on the Ref's discretion.





TACTICS AS A PERCEPTION SKILL.

The LT in the earlier scenario is wary of ambushes. He leads the platoon to a point that he thinks would be a good place to get ambushed.

Secretly, the Ref rolls the LT's Tactics skill. He rolls 1D for Tactics level or less.

If successful, the LT detects the ambush before it happens.





TACTICS AS A KNOWLEDGE SKILL

No roll at all is made. Instead, the Ref decides that any character with Tactics 2+ will know something about a cache of land mines that have just been found by the recon element.

(Any character with Tactics-2 or higher will know....) That the land mines are old TP-86 models, left over from the Fifth Frontier War. If you step on one, don't move! The mine is armed. But, if you can lift and depress your foot very quickly, there's a safety on these mines that most people don't know about.

Any character stepping on a mind will notice it and be able to stop her forward momentum--that will get him immediately blown up--on a roll of 2D for DEX or less.

If a character knows about this specific mine, either because he has Tactics-2 or has been told by someone who knows, then the character can attempt to use the Safety. But, it's not easy. Roll 3D for DEX or less. If successful, the character quickly removes his foot from the mine. If the check fails, then the mine goes boom.





TACTICS WITH GREAT INFLUENCE

Your modifiers don't have to be +1 all the time. This is CT.

There is a gray-green fog on this planet. Constantly, it swirls around knee height, and it is always present.

Have players roll 10+ to realize that the fog is thick with a combustible gas. If you can get an enemy surrounded by the fog, a grenade or even a torch (but not a gunshot) should be enough to ignite the fog.

PC can use this in a tactical situation, so allow +4 on the throw per level of Tactics skill (which is another way of saying that Tactics 2+ knows this automatically).





TACTICS & SURPRISE

Don't forget that Tactics skill is used as a modifier to the roll for Surprise. See page 45 of the Traveller Book for the chart, and page 34 of that same book for description.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

In MGT, tactics is used to improve initiative. In CT it referred to as an intangible that can be used to improve combat but without defined implementation. How do you guys normally implement the Tactics skill? It seems like an important skill in land combat.

I pick an edition of Traveller to use, and ignore all the rest when it comes to rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

I pick an edition of Traveller to use, and ignore all the rest when it comes to rules.

Me too. When I play CT, I'm only interested in CT stuff. I don't want to cross-breed.

 

[Condottiere]

Tactics is about three things:

1. Know and understand your capabilities

2. Know and understand your enemies' capabilities

3. Exploit your advantages and your enemies's disadvantages, while minimizing your own.

 

[aramis]

Me too. When I play CT, I'm only interested in CT stuff. I don't want to cross-breed.

I'm a mix-n-match type, but I always start from a reference edition. These days, that edition is always MT.

When looking at canon, however, I pick an edition, and stick to it, because the editions are so different in what they present.

 

[bjjones37]

Tactics is about three things:

1. Know and understand your capabilities

2. Know and understand your enemies' capabilities

3. Exploit your advantages and your enemies's disadvantages, while minimizing your own.

Have you been reading Sun-tzu?

1. "Thus it is said that one who knows his enemy and knows himself will not be endangered in a hundred engagements."
2. "One who does not know his enemy but knows himself will sometimes be victorious, sometimes meet defeat."
3. "One who knows neither the enemy nor himself will invariably be defeated in every engagement."
Sun-tzu

 

[creativehum]

Then, if you play the doctor and you try to treat a carácter who has been injuried by shrapnel, you must detail to the referee what do you do?.

Would I? No.

No unless I can make something "gameable" out of that moment. Whereas, with combat there are several layers of DMs that can be applied to range, cover, and so on that the Tactics can help a PC gain.

If the Player with a PC with Tactics asks the Referee "What might get us an advantage here?" and the a Referee provides an answer I'm not sure how I see that means the Player has to be an expert in tactics. The "expertise" is being provided to the Player by the Referee providing new info the Player would not otherwise have.

An additional note: the descriptions of, for example, Medical and Tactics, are very different in quality, with Tactics skill noting "Because tactical skill is an intangible, the exact results in battle are left to the referee to implement as necessary or prudent."

This kind of "rule" is exactly the sort of ad hoc/seat of the pants style of play at the base of the rules for original Dungeons & Dragons and original Traveller. Either one likes this kind of play or one does not. As I've noted elsewhere, most RPG design after the mid-70s moved away from it, presumably because lots of people didn't like it. But I like it.

As for player skill with Medical... It is possible. If a PC has an alien life form jammed down his throat and is suffocating, the Player of a fellow PC might say "I'm going to perform a tracheotomy." The rules say nothing about this, but the player might know about it. And if the PC has Medical, (or perhaps a high INT and EDU) it's all good.

As for problem solving on the fly: if a PC is injured in an alien and abandoned medical base and needs urgent medical care, a PC with a high Medical expertise might say, I'm going to see if I can jury-rig this stuff to keep our guy's heart going till we get back to the ship." He might then describe going through diagrams of the aliens who once lived here to see if it is even possible and to gather DMs for the roll.

This sort of stuff happens all the time in RPGs. At least in the games I play. The grabbing of established fictional details waiting to be picked and used, the player's imagination and knowledge, and random die rolls.

That's what I've got, though it might not satisfy.

(Good point on Pendragon, by the way. But also, I believe there is no "Intelligence" stat because it would get in the way of characters living by their Traits and Passions. A really intelligent character cannot "think their way past the wrong choices.")

 

[Peter Newman]

"How do _I_ use tactics?" - Not at all, I don't have that skill.

"How do my usual PC's use Tactics?" - Not at all, they rarely have that skill.

"How did my active duty Imperial Marine Captain use his MT Tactics 3 skill during the 5th Frontier War in Aramis's campaign?" - Whatever way would kill the most Zho's before they killed us that I could get away with. When you're up against strong psionics you need constant vigilance and a willingness to use your tactics pool.

Good example: I roll dice, add the bonus from Dex & skill, and do the math. "That would be a miss by one point at this range; but I'm adding all three points from my Tactics pool, so that's a hit with a +2. That makes it a double damage hit with my FGMP. Hold on while I roll 28d6. It's a good thing I remembered to tell myself to wait for a clean shot and fire for center of mass with my no-recoil weapon. Oorah!"