• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.
  • We, the systems administration staff, apologize for this unexpected outage of the boards. We have resolved the root cause of the problem and there should be no further disruptions.

How do you use Tactics?

bjjones37

SOC-12
In MGT, tactics is used to improve initiative. In CT it referred to as an intangible that can be used to improve combat but without defined implementation. How do you guys normally implement the Tactics skill? It seems like an important skill in land combat.
 
In MGT, tactics is used to improve initiative. In CT it referred to as an intangible that can be used to improve combat but without defined implementation. How do you guys normally implement the Tactics skill? It seems like an important skill in land combat.

I like the tactics pool from MT.
 
In CT it is easier to discuss this if you provide an example. So much of the application of rules in CT depends on the situation and circumstances, and what the PCs attempt to do.
 
Okay, you are an army lieutenant leading a platoon with 30 men on the active roster. They are mostly carrying the original M16s (not the A1s), but there is also an M2 mortar, an M60 machine gun, and one troop has an M40A1 sniper rifle. Most of the guys with the M16s are grumbling about having to give up their M14s for this piece of .... You have been tasked with taking out a mobile SAM unit that has been harassing your Thuds but is reported to have broken down forward of your area of deployment. You are advancing on it's last reported position when you start taking fire from an indeterminate number of VC elements concealed in the undergrowth of a jungle across a shallow river on your left flank.

How are tactics going to help you in this scenario?
 
Last edited:
I like the tactics pool from MT.

I've always liked that rule too.

But, I think it too closed for CT gaming. In CT, the influence of Tactics varies depending on the situation.

The Ref looks at the situation, hears what the player has to say, and decides on how best the Tactics skill would be a benefit to the player.

Let's read the example below...



Okay, you are an army lieutenant leading a platoon with 30 men on the active roster. They are mostly carrying the original M16s (not the A1s), but there is also an M2 mortar, an M60 machine gun, and one troop has an M40A1 sniper rifle. Most of the guys with the M16s are grumbling about having to give up their M14s for this piece of .... You have been tasked with taking out a mobile SAM unit which is reported to have broken down forward of your area of deployment. You are advancing on it's last reported position when you start taking fire from an indeterminate number of VC elements concealed in the undergrowth of a jungle across a shallow river on your left flank.

How are tactics going to help you in this scenario?

Somebody sounds like they've been in one of the Armed Services for a time. :)

As Ref, I now understand the situation, but the player hasn't said a thing. What's he trying to do? What are the LT's orders? What's the goal of the PCs?

How does the PC react to this situation?

What actions is he declaring for the first round of combat? (Sounds like the VC have played out a Surprise Round).




The Tactics skill in the Traveller Book says that the Ref should get creative and customize the use of the Tactics skill to benefit the PC who has the skill.

I can't do that until I know what the PC's actions will be.

Is he taking this round to look at his left flank to make sure he's not getting VC from both sides?

Does he send his sniper off to find a quick position to act as cover and slow the VC while he does a strategic retreat with the rest of the platoon?

Is he trying to keep his men from routing? Having them stand their ground?

Is he calling in an airstrike?

Give me some idea of what the PC is doing (I'm assuming the PC is the LT in charge, the rest of the platoon are NPCs).

Do that, and we'll have opportunities for the Tactics skill to help. Because there will be rolls made, and the Tactics skill can apply to some of them if the Ref thinks the tactics are sound.
 
Assuming that I, the GM, know tactics better than the player, and especially if the player knows virtually no tactics (quite possible in Traveller, where you can get forced into a career you didn't want), I might have the player make two rolls.

The first is to give him some idea of what the enemy may be doing, based on the situation. The better the roll, the more detailed the insight.

The second, made after a plan is laid out, is a "save vs stupidity". The better the roll, the more glaring flaws in the plan I will point out.
 
How are tactics going to help you in this scenario?

ad hoc. the troops being better-directed will get their support weapons into play before their opponents and with better fields of fire, reinforcements will arrive sooner, withdrawals will be more organized, ammunition usage will be better controlled, orders will be better understood and implemented sooner, casualties will be fewer. any or all.
 
I've always liked that rule too.

But, I think it too closed for CT gaming. In CT, the influence of Tactics varies depending on the situation.

It works just fine with CT... except that it's potentially too strong in CT.

Remember: it's a floating pool of DM's per turn per each side.

Two or three combatants with tactics can make one PC into a superguru. In MegaTraveller, there's a presumption of other uses as well - because a PC makes on average just under 2 rolls per turn - one for the interrupt, and one for the action, possibly one for the movement, too, if the terrain requires.

Different approach to rolls by the design team.
 
Your men return fire and the resistance melts away. Apparently a recon element then. But VC are always tempted to take a shot at G.I. Joe when they get the chance, especially from cover. They especially like collecting those shiny insignia of officer rank. You learned a long time ago not to wear yours. Everyone knows who is in charge and that is all that matters. Even the new guy, especially after you clubbed him with a rifle for not following orders.

The occasional shot still rings out, but the river curves off to the left and falls away as you advance toward your objective. A hill looms before you in the distance and you can see a slight twinkle at the top of it. Field glasses. You call Big Red over. He is tall and broad shouldered with a shock of red hair and a temper to match. Courtesy of his Irish heritage. But he knows his stuff and it was not long before you made him squad leader. Funny thing is he claims that drinking the stuff keeps his hair from turning grey. And everyone know better than to contradict him. Does not look red right now though, with mud slathered under the edge of his helmet.

You tell him to send someone to take out the observer at the top of the hill. There is only one choice really. Chavez. Big Red relays the necessary orders and Chavez pulls out a big Bowie knife just sort of melts into the surroundings. You would never have known he was there. After an hour and a half or so the twinkle disappears. Quietly. You know those field glasses are surveilling the other side of the hill now. Meanwhile you have been advancing toward the hill when Chavez reappears like a green and brown ghost. As usual there is bad news and bad news. But maybe not too bad.

The way up the hill is pretty much clear. There were 3 or 4 VC stationed up the hill, but not any longer. There are about 60 troops stationed in the ravine at the base of the hill on the other side. They are protecting a Mobile SAM unit that has a broken axle. Apparently they are just waiting for a detail to arrive with the parts to repair it. From the looks of it about 40 are VC, vicious but unpredictable. The remaining 20 are NVA regulars - disciplined and tough as nails. They have enough men to protect the SAM unit but only if they can keep the VC elements in line. The Colonel in charge knows military tactics and how to deploy his men for a structured defense. But that assumes that the VC will stand there ground and follow orders, something they are not known for.

They have a field artillery unit that could you a real headache. They also have a T-54 tank. But there are ways of dealing with those, especially in this broken terrain. And if you hurry, you can get your men to the top of the hill before the NVA realize that their surveillance team is missing. Then you have the high ground.

You cannot call in an F-105 Thud strike because someone got to the fuel dump and they are waiting for more to be flown in. But navy does have some F-8 Crusaders available. Problem with that, the VC have learned how to bring them down with small arms fire. Just takes one round in the intake and all those delicate turbine blades start breaking loose. Not too mention that the SAM may still be operational. Still, those four 20mm cannon could do a lot of damage to that T-54. But it would take awhile to get here.

The decision is made for you when you start to here the artillery booming and realize that the race is on to the top of the hill.

Assume your men are amply stocked with ammunition and grenades and have a small supply of C4.

We'll say that the actual PCs are the LT, Big Red, Chavez, and Johnson the sniper.
 
Last edited:
Wow. You've got a big scenario here.



Your men return fire and the resistance melts away. Apparently a recon element then.

So, the first encounter has come and gone. VC used surprise. PC fought back. VC retreated.





But VC are always tempted to take a shot at G.I. Joe when they get the chance, especially from cover. They especially like collecting those shiny insignia of rank. You learned a long time ago not to wear your. Everyone knows who is in charge and that is all that matters. Even the new guy, especially after you clubbed him with a rifle for not following orders.

The occasional shot still rings out, but the river curves off to the left and falls away to as you advance toward your objective.


OK. As Ref, I look for what the player does that is a tactical benefit. I've got my NPC VC out in the jungle, skirting the road. As we proceed with the game, I'll take some sniper shots at the PC and his platoon.

I'll have my VC NPC snipers take priority with officers. But, the player has stated that the rank insignia is gone. You can't tell him from the others.

I will roll, say, INT or less on 2D for the sniper to pick the most likely leader. I'll look at the spread out on a map, if we're using a map, and decide what the sniper can see. When I pick a likely target, I'll roll 2D for INT or less for the VC character to decide to shoot at that specific target. A successful roll says the VC decides to shoot and thinks he's found a worthy target--an officer or Sargent. Failing the roll, the VC shoots at one of the NPC enlisted men under the command of the PC.

I'll use Tactics skill to skew that roll. I can use it as a penalty modifier to skew it towards failure.

As the Ref, I look for something tactical that the player does, and I use the Tactics skill to help the PC accomplish his goal. In the above, what I see is the player using the PC to keep his main character and squad leaders from getting hit by snipers. Thus, if I play a VC and pick a target that looks like a commander from the VC's point of view, I use the Tactics skills to skew the VC's opinion to move on to a non leader target.







Now, it looks like a third section of the gaming night. VC Ambush. Then the push down the road. Now, the twinkle on the hill encounter....

A hill looms before you in the distance and you can see a slight twinkle at the top of it. Field glasses. You call Big Red over. He is tall and broad shouldered with a shock of red hair and a temper to match.

Courtesy of his Irish heritage. But he knows his stuff and it was not long before you made him squad leader.

Funny thing is he claims that drinking the stuff keeps his hair from turning grey. And everyone know better than to contradict him. Does not look red right now though, with mud slathered under the edge of his helmet.

You tell him to send someone to take out the observer at the top of the hill. There is only one choice really. Chavez.

Big Red relays the necessary orders and Chavez pulls out a big Bowie knife just sort of melts into the surroundings. You would never have known he was there. You wait for an hour and a half or so and the twinkle disappears. Quietly.

We would, of course, play this out. Chavez is a PC, or he is a NPC that the player takes over and gives a lot of love to as we watch him sneak up on the VC observer.

This is an encounter all by itself. Chavez doesn't have Tactics skill, lets say, to keep this simple. But, let's also say that this encounter went as you described it. The rest of the platoon waits, undercover, as Chavez, alone, sneaks off into the jungle, up the hill, and takes out the VC observer with the biggest damn Bowie knife that you've ever seen (with a blackened black, of course, so that it won't cast reflection).







We're at the fourth encounter of the night. VC Ambush. Snipers. Chavez and the Hill. Now...

You know those field glasses are surveilling the other side of the hill now. Meanwhile you have been advancing toward the hill when Chavez reappears like a green and brown ghost. As usual there is bad news and bad news. But maybe not too bad.

The way up the hill is pretty much clear. There were 3 or 4 VC stationed up the hill, but not any longer.

This was part of Chavez's solo encounter.





There are about 60 troops stationed in the ravine at the base of the hill on the other side. They are protecting a Mobile SAM unit that has a broken axle. Apparently they are just waiting for a detail to arrive with the parts to repair it. From the looks of it about 40 are VC, vicious but unpredictable. The remaining 20 are NVA regulars - disciplined and tough as nails. They have enough men to protect the SAM unit but only if they can keep the VC elements in line.

The Colonel in charge knows military tactics and how to deploy his men for a structured defense. But that assumes that the VC will stand there ground and follow orders, something they are not known for.

They have a field artillery unit that could you a real headache. They also have a T-54 tank. But there are ways of dealing with those, especially in this broken terrain. And if you hurry, you can get your men to the top of the hill before the NVA realize that their surveillance team is missing. Then you have the high ground.

You cannot call in an F-105 Thud strike because someone got to the fuel dump and they are waiting for more to be flown in. But navy does have some F-8 Crusaders available. Problem with that, the VC have learned how to bring them down with small arms fire. Just takes one round in the intake and all those delicate turbine blades start breaking loose. Not too mention that the SAM may still be operational. Still, those four 20mm cannon could do a lot of damage to that T-54. But it would take awhile to get here.

The decision is made for you when you start to here the artillery booming and realize that the race is on to the top of the hill.

So, in the climax scene for the night's gaming, you haven't given me any tactics on the PC side. All you're doing is rushing your troops up the side of the hill. The artillery is raining down on you, so you've lost the chance at Surprise. The VC know that you're there (they probably got foot runners from the Ambush or the Sniper encounters, anyway).





I do see an opportunity for the VC Colonel to use his Tactics skill. This sentence, "The Colonel in charge knows military tactics and how to deploy his men for a structured defense," makes me think that the Colonel has the skill.

And this: "(Referring to the VC) But that assumes that the VC will stand there ground and follow orders, something they are not known for."

I'd probably use the Morale Rules from Book 4. And, I'd use the Colonel's Tactics skill to modify the morale results, skewing towards the Colonel's favor. If successful, the VC do as the Colonel orders. If the Morale roll fails, then I play the VC much more skittishly, prone to routing--which is in the PC LT's favor, as his enemy strength will drop.







MORE STRIKER THAN TRAVELLER

What you've described here is not a typical Traveller encounter. You could use the large encounter combat rules from Book 4, but that's a very abstract system. I'd use them in a Traveller game.

This encounter begs to be played out using the Striker rules, on a TL 6 world (like Aramanx, in the Spinward Marches).

A Traveller encounter is much more likely to have, maybe the crew of five on once side of the combat and maybe a like number of enemies, a the most.

Snapshot rules could used in this case, too, as well as the standard Traveller combat system.

I've striven to turn your large encounter above into a Traveller encounter, with the Ref running the VC, the player running his PC, the LT (and jumping into the skin of occasional characters like Chavez), controlling an NPC platoon.

I broke up your description into Traveller combat encounters (instead of a wargame style Striker scenario), and I tried to think of your description as just one Ref and one player having a good time playing Traveller one night.





TACTICS

As to the Tactics skill, I did exactly what the skill description says. I looked for tactical decisions made by the player, and then I used his skill to enhance that choice in the player's favor.

There is no limit to how Tactics can be used. The Ref should get creative. He needs to look at the scenario, look at what the players are trying to do, and pick out any instances where the players are being tactical.

When the Ref identifies a player tactical decision, then the Ref considers how best the skill can be applied to the situation.





THE HILL

I went with the scenario as you described above. But, let's go back to Chavez and the LT sending him up that hill.

Unknown to the player at that time, the Ref has the Colonel and his men, plus the tank, near the base of the hill.

A lot depends on if the LT and his platoon are spotted by the VC Observer.

The LT's tactic is to send his best stealthy guy, Chavez, up the hill to take out the Observer.

I would play out the encounter with Chavez, as I indicated above, but if the encounter ended and it wasn't clear if the Observer had time to signal the Colonel at the base of the hill, I might just roll this.

Here's another opportunity to use the Tactics skill. Did the Observer see the platoon and call it in before Chavez's got him? I don't know. Dice roll, modified by the LT's Tactics.





This is a long read. But, does it enlighten the use of the Tactics skill in the game?
 
In CT I've always used the CO tactics skill as modifier in to combat roll in the abstract system gien in LBB4 pages 32-36.

And it is used in the surprise determinatin too (LBB1 page 48).
 
This is a long read. But, does it enlighten the use of the Tactics skill in the game?

The first thing it suggests to me is that traveller typically works with smaller units. One of the things that I tried to imply with the scenario is that the LT and his platoon have the advantage of mobility. The NVA are stuck with the mobile SAM site and cannot abandon it. Thus the "stuctured defense".
He can use the VC as a screening force and try to maintain control of the hill top. While he never received a situation report due to the good services of Chavez, the failure to report indicated there was problem. Then of course the VC Recon patrol swung wide and finally arrived to report an American presence. The VietCong (untrained guerillas) by themselves could not hold out against a trained American unit, but they are backed by a smaller but well trained North Vietnamese Army unit.

So the Vietnamese have the advantage of numbers and equipment, but the Americans have the advantage of position (the NVA Colonel cannot really afford to spare many of the VC to try to hold the hilltop), mobility, and a better trained cohesive unit. He can only try to hold out until help arrives. He also has better heavy equipment but is not well situated to use it.
In theory the LT might be able to achieve tactical surprise against some of the VC by isolating a few of his men and making them appear exposed, a trap they are simply not trained to recognize. They are used to setting traps, not encountering them.

The Artillery was used more for shock value than to do any real damage. The Americans are still out of sight over the hill and cannot be sighted in. Only their general whereabouts are known from the recon. But initially the Americans cannot know if they have a spotter or not and it might give the Colonel a few extra minutes to get some men situated in strategic spots during the confusion.

The Americans have no anticipated reinforcements, and while the NVA Colonel expects some, they a largely a maintenance detail which could still assist, but neither side knows when they might arrive. Therefore more of a psychological factor than a physical one.

As I see it, you are using tactics to achieve surprise and to provide a modifier to certain Attack (but not Damage) rolls. It would also appear that traveller works more on the scale of a fire team rather than a platoon or company. So I am guessing I would need to break the platoon down into something like four-man elements and give them individual encounters with squad leaders overseeing for it to work.
 
Of course, that will depend on how do you intend to resolve the situation (I mean what rules you intend to use).

If you intend to use any RPG man-to-man combat (be it LBB1, MT or AHL), then I wish you luck, as controlling the 90+ men and several vehicles involved will need lots of bookeeping and probably will bog down the bame to pure boredom.

I won't talk about using Striker (though it probably seems to be the most apropiate rules set) as I don't know it..

If you use the abstract system in LBB4:

  • US has a platoon, I guess NVA/VC would count as a reinforced platoon too, so I'd set it as among a company and a platoon. Modifiers of platton vs company would be -1 for the platoon and +2 for the company (I'd reduce to -1/+1, as the NVA/VC is not a full company).
  • I see it as a firefight (no one clearly attacking), as none of them seems to be in prepared defenses
  • TL for US would be 7, for NVS/VC 6, giving a +1 for US and -1 for NVA/VC.
  • Let's asume the US Lt has tactics 2, while the NVA Col has tactics 1, so there would be a +1 for US and -1 for NVA/VC.
  • I'd give a -1 to NVA /VC for the lack of maneuver capacity they have due to the need to defend a position they'd not chosen (the SAM).

So, finally, the US platoon will have a DM of +1, while the NVA/VC tropos will have a DM of -2.

Let's asume both players roll a 4:

  • US roll will be modified to 6, producing 20% losses on NVA/VC troops (12 men downed)
  • NVA/VC roll wil lbe modified to 2, producing 5% losses (1.5 men, I'd rule one downed and another lightly wounded)

Now is where cohesion takes effect, with the VC troops having to chek morale (something they are not known for), modified by the NVA Col (or their own leader) leadership and the 20% losses they have received.

The most likely effect is for (or their own) troops to decide that the best part of valor is keeping themselves alive to fight another day, leaving the NVA troops (now reduced to a platoon or a section., depending how losses have been applied) alone, assuming they don't decide to fight another day too....
 
As Ref, I now understand the situation, but the player hasn't said a thing. What's he trying to do? What are the LT's orders? What's the goal of the PCs?

How does the PC react to this situation?

What actions is he declaring for the first round of combat? (Sounds like the VC have played out a Surprise Round).

This will, again and IMHO, test the players tactics skill, not the character's one...

My tactics skill is only about having played ASL, and I guess many assumptions are given there as to say it is in fact none.

If my character's skill is 5, this has to be featured some way, not reluing on my ASL experience (that is lilkely no to apply in any way in most Traveelr combat situations).
 
This will, again and IMHO, test the players tactics skill, not the character's one...

My tactics skill is only about having played ASL, and I guess many assumptions are given there as to say it is in fact none.

If my character's skill is 5, this has to be featured some way, not reluing on my ASL experience (that is lilkely no to apply in any way in most Traveelr combat situations).

If the Player says "I want to accomplish x..." [get to the best point for a flanking attack, for example], then the Referee says, "Your guys spots two positions that might work. One will offer a +1 DM on attacks, and you can sneak over there no problem. Or there's another spot that's better, but the cover en route is lighter. You'll get your full Tactics-2 as a +DM if you reach it, but you'll need to make a Throw 6+ to get there without being spotted."

In this case, the Player states what he wants, and the Referee provides the information in terms of fictional details the PC would recognize because of tactical expertise. Thus, using the expertise does not hang on the Player's understanding of tactics. The Referee hands out goodies of information as the PC would understand the situation simply by presenting more information. It is the PC recognizing facts as relayed by the Referee to the Player because of the PC's expertise that triggers the information and/or +DMs.

_____________
I need to add, of course, that these early RPGs explicitly expected the Players to show up,with skill, imagination, and problem solving. "I want to get to a better position for an attack" does depend on the Players actually thinking through how to handle situations. In early RPG play this is considered not only a feature and not a bug, but the point of play.

In contrast a lot of later RPG design is built upon the assumption the Player's ability/cleverness/problem solving should matter little and the point of the game is to model how the PC interacts with the world, with the Player sort of a "pilot" in the PC, pressing buttons to activate skills and powers to find out what happens.

Each has their fans. Each method is viable. But they are distinct approaches.

Classic Traveller is designed with the former method in mind.
 
Here's another opportunity to use the Tactics skill. Did the Observer see the platoon and call it in before Chavez's got him? I don't know. Dice roll, modified by the LT's Tactics.





This is a long read. But, does it enlighten the use of the Tactics skill in the game?

Just caught this. Not a combat roll but an encounter result that would definitely affect the game progression. That is a subtle use for tactics.
 
Just a side note. Under field conditions, the early M16s had a tendency to jam if they got dirty. Kind of hard to avoid in a muddy environment like Vietnam. Hence the grumbling. I am imagining one or two rifles jamming per (not round but) combat encounter. Don't know if that is the sort of thing Traveller models or not.

Not quite the same, but similarly, when I played Universe II, sensors were given a percentage chance to fail to detect. Don't know it there is an intermittent equipment failure option in Traveller.
 
I need to add, of course, that these early RPGs explicitly expected the Players to show up,with skill, imagination, and problem solving. "I want to get to a better position for an attack" does depend on the Players actually thinking through how to handle situations. In early RPG play this is considered not only a feature and not a bug, but the point of play.

In contrast a lot of later RPG design is built upon the assumption the Player's ability/cleverness/problem solving should matter little and the point of the game is to model how the PC interacts with the world, with the Player sort of a "pilot" in the PC, pressing buttons to activate skills and powers to find out what happens.

Each has their fans. Each method is viable. But they are distinct approaches.

Classic Traveller is designed with the former method in mind.

Then, if you play the doctor and you try to treat a carácter who has been injuried by shrapnel, you must detail to the referee what do you do?

I take the scalpel and make a cut on the shrapnel hit place he has on his abdomen, trying to avoid damaging the musclo more than it is and avoiding intestines, I take the piece of of shrapnel wiht care it is not toucjhing any blood vessel...

Or you just make the doctor to roll to see if (or how much) successful he is in the treatment...

That's what I mean. Of course some details, imagination and ingenuity can modify the roll, but, again IMHO, not the player skill, as the carácter is not the player, and has a different set of skills and knowledge.

Likewise, if you have an IQ of 180 but play a carácter who has INT 2, you should not be allowed to solve INT problems as player, but you should roll for you character to solve them, or the INT 2 only means he can have less skills (in CT/MT at least), but not the real effect being so dumb should have (see some games, as Pendragon, have no INT stat just to avoid this).
 
Back
Top