OK, I'm playing around with the vehicle design system in T20 and trying to come up with TL8-9 powered armour. My current design (which needs more tweaking) is rated at 500vl, but I'm having trouble envisaging exactly what that means. How big is it really? A normal human is apparently around 100vl, but how does that compare? I was expecting something the same size as a small car, but the ground car stats claim that they start at around 1000vl. I was aiming for something vaguely between a Heavy Gear or VOTOM and a Landmate (for those of you who speak Anime/Manga), so around the 10 to 15 foot tall mark I guess.
How big is 500vl? [T20]
- Thread starter daibaka
- Start date
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
A quick search of the T20 sections will turn up pages of debate on this very question. In brief the two official converisons differ and imo neither is quite right
MY call on what you want would be a chassis of just under a dTon (about 10m3) which would convert to 1000vl by the book. The alternate conversion from the Traveller's Aid book would halve that to 500vl.
As for a normal human, they are not 100vl, they are closer to 10vl. It is the seat/space for a human to ride or operate within a vehicle that takes up at least 100vl.
MY call on what you want would be a chassis of just under a dTon (about 10m3) which would convert to 1000vl by the book. The alternate conversion from the Traveller's Aid book would halve that to 500vl.
As for a normal human, they are not 100vl, they are closer to 10vl. It is the seat/space for a human to ride or operate within a vehicle that takes up at least 100vl.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I think it's only TA#3 (ground vehicles) but it might be in TA#6 (grav vehicles) too. It basically just halved the conversion used in the Handbook (pg.223).
For the vl I suggested I just took your size of about 5m tall and guessed it at 1m through and 2m wide as an averaged. It's close enough for the design steps and nice round numbers are easier. Then once it's all run through I usually just fudge to fit the description.
For the vl I suggested I just took your size of about 5m tall and guessed it at 1m through and 2m wide as an averaged. It's close enough for the design steps and nice round numbers are easier. Then once it's all run through I usually just fudge to fit the description.
1000vl is closer to my original intention. Think I'll refigure things and see how it comes out. Still left with a 500vl power suit, though. I'm guessing thats going to work out around 8 feet tall, being about half the size. Think there's an illustration in Mega Traveller Journal 3 by Blair Reynolds that is pretty close to what I'm imagining. Just need to figure out weapons for both now. The 500vl one is still close to human size so it may be able to get away with adapted regular weapons. Its big brother I was thinking could maybe use versions of the vehicle autocannon and lasers, but I haven't figured them out yet.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Aren't "vl"s liters? If so, 5m x 2m x 1m would be 10,000vl.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Nope, the book says it's 10L to 1vl.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
OK, Dan. I haven't had time to explore T20.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
No problem Fritz, didn't mean it to sound snarky if you got that impression
Just short on time.
Gnusam Netor
SOC-13
Was there any special reason for 1vl = 10l,
why not use liters or m^3 from the start?
well anyway... something just dawned on me (it is 0530 afterall
) 1cubicfoot is roughly the volume of one human ... so i weigh 200pounds and displace 1cf. Gurps Vehicles/space maybe got something afterall.
why not use liters or m^3 from the start?
well anyway... something just dawned on me (it is 0530 afterall
) 1cubicfoot is roughly the volume of one human ... so i weigh 200pounds and displace 1cf. Gurps Vehicles/space maybe got something afterall.
Gnusam Netor
SOC-13
early morning realisations prove to be somewhat unreliable... 1cf ~ 27liters.
( faulty reasoning was: 3^4 = 81, but since this booring universe only has 3 dimensions, 4 is one too much. )
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Sorry for mixing units, but this is how I always work it out.
The human body has a density pretty close to that of water - 1kg/litre
If your weight is 200lbs, that converts to 91kg for a volume of 91 litres.
1 '^3 = 28.3 litres
91 litres is 3.2 '^3, approximate to 3 cubic feet.
The human body has a density pretty close to that of water - 1kg/litre
If your weight is 200lbs, that converts to 91kg for a volume of 91 litres.
1 '^3 = 28.3 litres
91 litres is 3.2 '^3, approximate to 3 cubic feet.
Gnusam Netor
SOC-13
pfft...
I was tired ok? the time was 0530!!!
That lecture was so uncalled for. I now feel unjustly educated and when i feel unjustly educated i prepare longships for north sea travel, get it?
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Gnusam, where are you getting 1cf for a person? Are you only counting supermodels? (Oh... wait, you are in Sweden... well, that explains the supermodel calculations. )
At almost 6'H x 2+'W x 9"D, I am closer to 8-9cf. Now, I need to lose some weight, but I'm not THAT big (8-9 people )! Even taking my arms out of the width (~18"W), I still come up to 6cf.
This has made it crazy trying to create a robot from LBB8 where they claim 150l is a large human torso. Yes, it's large, if your B&T shop starts at Goliath size. (FWIW 1cf ~ 27l)
)At almost 6'H x 2+'W x 9"D, I am closer to 8-9cf. Now, I need to lose some weight, but I'm not THAT big (8-9 people
)! Even taking my arms out of the width (~18"W), I still come up to 6cf.This has made it crazy trying to create a robot from LBB8 where they claim 150l is a large human torso. Yes, it's large, if your B&T shop starts at Goliath size. (FWIW 1cf ~ 27l)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Apologies again for mixing imperial and metric units, it's the only way I can work this out.
1 cubic foot = 12" x 12" x 12" = 1728 cubic inches.
One cubic inch is 2.54cm x 2.54cm x 2.54cm = 16.39 cm^3.
So a cubic foot is 1728 x 16.39 = 28,322 cm^3
Since 1000cm^3 is 1 litre, one cubic foot is 28.3 litres - or 28 if you want a rough estimate.
To get a rough estimate of your body volume in cuft, weigh yourself in pounds and divide by 62.
For more accuracy divide by 62.26
Although according to this site, 61-67 lbs/cuft is the usual range of human density.
1 cubic foot = 12" x 12" x 12" = 1728 cubic inches.
One cubic inch is 2.54cm x 2.54cm x 2.54cm = 16.39 cm^3.
So a cubic foot is 1728 x 16.39 = 28,322 cm^3
Since 1000cm^3 is 1 litre, one cubic foot is 28.3 litres - or 28 if you want a rough estimate.
To get a rough estimate of your body volume in cuft, weigh yourself in pounds and divide by 62.
For more accuracy divide by 62.26
Although according to this site, 61-67 lbs/cuft is the usual range of human density.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Well, Sigg, I think we're going to come up a little short if we divide by 62 - after all humans (at least, gamers) are a lot of hot air, besides the water and chemicals.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
from the site I quoted:
Gnusam Netor
SOC-13
Now look here Fritz, have you never realised stuff only to realise that your realisation was faulty and that was why 40 billion people (all living and all those who ever lived) apparently never realised it before you ? especially if you realise it at night? Have your synapses never fired a little on the random side?Originally posted by Fritz88:
Gnusam, where are you getting 1cf for a person? Are you only counting supermodels? (Oh... wait, you are in Sweden... well, that explains the supermodel calculations.
Is Fritz perfect? surpassed only by God, hmm?
BTW, I think it is a great advantage if measuring units like meters or PSI or whatever is related to everyday stuff like a foot or the freezing point of water. So, IF a cubic foot would have equalled the volume of a human it would have been a good unit for volume AND with an excellent relation to an everyday object. But apparently a cf is roughly the volume of a big dog and dogs are no basis for measurement systems.
Of course when you have to convert between pressure and volume and distance and speed and, and so on the metric system rules, but the meter in itself (Kant style) is a lousy unit - inferior to the foot.
Supermodels? sorry they where all eaten by the polarbears yesterday...
ps. This posting thingy in the browser is playing tricks on me... is it my new work computer or Opera the browser? it's annoying anyway
