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Hi tech medical into Lo tech armor (Long)

JAFARR

SOC-14 1K
Peer of the Realm
My wife used to be in the occupational therapy field. One thing she did was make splints to help the elderly hold their arms, etc in the necessary positions to counteract strokes and the like. This was done with a heat moldable plastic sheet. You cut it to the size you wanted, warmed it up in a pan of hot water, and reformed it into the shape you wanted. Some of it came preformed like perhaps a hand and you might need to change the finger positions or something like that.
Now for the armor aspect. Suppose you took this stuff and layered it with fine metal mesh between the layers. Add kevalar joints at the elbows, shoulders, hips, and knees. You could even heat embed some abrasive grit into the outer layer to rapidly dull the enemy edged weapons. This stuff is hard to cut unless it is warm in the first place.
A merchant buys a supply of this material, gets a computer set up with an outfit that can record a person's muscle movements and transform those measurements into the proper dimensions so that layers act as overlaping, but still free moving protection at the joints and makes customized light weight armor aginst low tech weapons. Imagine a knight or samari wearing a better armor that is 1/2 to 1/4 the weight of what his opponet is wearing.
Sure you have a little expense getting the computer set up and the program written, but modern day atheletes already have simular setups for testing endurance limits and the like. Buy your electronics from a high tech world that has lots of professional sports and modify it. Then buy the material and make a few demo suits of armor. Allow your potential customers to try to destroy it with their own weapons. Of course don't try to use this stuff aginst lasers and energy weapons. Muscle powered weapons would at best be about as effective as they are aginst metal armor and most likely less effective (except in extreamly cold conditions where it might tend to shatter). You would want to add some padding to areas that would get the most abuse because of the lack of mass to absorb the blows.
In the pirate's hayday on the Atlantic seaboard, all the pirates were hack and slash type fighters that overwhelmed their opposition by brute force. The man who was responsible for putting them out of business trained his troops to use rapiers that weighed much less than the pirates cutlasses. They took some loses early in their fights, but generally tired the pirates out from using the heavier weapons. How long can troops in full metal armor last in battle if their opponents have equal protection that offers far less endurance drain? Think you would have any problems selling this armor? After you get the equipment paid for, the supplies would cost relativly nothing. The worse part would be the time it would take to custom fit the army. also note that captured armor would not be able to be used aginst your army due to the custom fitted nature.
 
Is it really all that high tech medical?

Sounds like a useful piece of kit but isn't that a bit like a suit of very lightweight combat armour?
 
Greetings and salutations,

This seems to be a profitable scheme, but there are a few questions and facts.
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  • If you are making customizable armor, the purchaser will consider the expense versus the advantages. The armor will most likely be purchased for elite units, which are expensive to maintain in their owns rights. Depending on how many elite units exist and how bad the purchaser desires the advantage...</font>
  • Can the materials for the armor be obtained on the planet(s) you desire to sell the armor?</font>
  • Will the cost of producing the product (obtaining the necessary supplies, transportation, wages, construction, etc.) be more than the actual sales of the armor? If the world is on a profitable and/or regular trade route that you run, then this may become a mute point as well.</font>
  • Since you will be producing this armor, do you plan on hiring help? Will this help be at the local level? Or persons with high technological skills?</font>
  • Will the armor be repairable? If not and a new suit of armor must be bought each time, then selling it may become a problem if the customer considers the expense outweighs the advantage(s).</font>
  • How will it stand up against black powder weapons (arbelest, musket, flintlocks, etc.)? This may become a mute point for a period of time since such weapons were only used by elite units for a while.</font>
Well, that is all I can think of at the moment. Do not mean to overburden you, but I am curious.
 
Answers to the previous questions (some of them anyway)
Plastics are way up the tech ladder from swords. The material I am refering to is quite advanced from your basic plactics as well, so no it would not be avaliable on the selling world. Ideally you want to find a low tech balkanized world near a tech 8+ (maybe even higher to get the computer equipment for the inital setup) world to make this profitable. You equip the elite troops for one army. After you drain them dry, you approach a different army and start over. When you have the cream skimmed from that world, you find another world of like situation and start over.

No, this would be something your crew would handle. Once my wife showed me this material, I was able to work with it very quickly. You would purchase it as preformed sections, warm it up and form it to standard templates as specified by the computer, and use a two part bonding agent between layers. The manifacturer might even be able to insert the reinforcing mesh into the layers during manifacture.

No, I doubt it would stand up to fire arms, but you might then start importing fire arms after every body has your armor. Might be able to find some more cream that route.

The whole idea behind this is look for new ways to use fairly common items that are fairly inexpensive on one world, but would be highly sought after on some other world. No one on modern day Earth equips armies with swords and shields anymore so no one would think of making high tech plastics into body armor aginst swords and spears. Riot control police have plastic body armor, but get a sword weilding crowd after them and see how fast they would retreat.

This whole idea came from trying to write a book about colonizing new worlds. What if you revive some older and simlper technology that was constructed from more durable newer materials.

For example: fiberglass bows with nylon strings replacement arrows could be made of local materials, but the bow would last forever. Using the same principal, build old Skinner Uniflow steam engines with modern metal alloys. Use local wood or coal as a fuel supply, but again you can set up a power plant for what you needed it for that would last far longer than the origional materials used in them when they were top of the line techonology.

By applying new materials to older technology, you help shorten the time needed to make a colony self sufficent. Or in traveller usage, you make a killing by thinking outside the box.
 
The SCA has been doing this for years. Industrial 1/4" polyetheline barrels (free in the right dumpsters) cut apart, heated in an oven and reshaped to make plate armor. It is lighter and more confortable than the usual 16 ga (1.5mm) steel and protects just as well against blunt weapons. I have seen it turn an edge, too, although there is less experience with that.
 
How high tech do you want to go? and how low tech is the target?

There is a whole host of things you can build at moderate to high TLs which, when imported to a Low TL worlds, will completely alter things.

Some things, like the armor, are simply use higher tech materials for the same kind of thing. Weapons and armor are ideal this way. Aluminium-nickel composite swords, fiberglass bows, carbon fiber reinforced plastic armor.

Other things are zero maintenance high tech items like steam engines or sterling engines, solar cells to power simple electronics. One really cool idea is a satallite network to provide weather forcasting and a global communications network. Use simple battery or muscle powered radios and launching satallites is simple matter.

Other things you might want to consider importing: A good book binding printing press (for information distribution), guns (don't know any one who'd turn down guns), manufacturing equipment (die cast or stamping equipment), food crop seed (every needs to eat).

Knowledge is the best thing to import if you want to improve the colonists life: Germ theory of disease, good crop management, large scale engineering projects, assembly line manufacturing.
 
Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
The SCA has been doing this for years. Industrial 1/4" polyetheline barrels (free in the right dumpsters) cut apart, heated in an oven and reshaped to make plate armor. It is lighter and more confortable than the usual 16 ga (1.5mm) steel and protects just as well against blunt weapons. I have seen it turn an edge, too, although there is less experience with that.
No insult intended, but SCA is playing at combat. The intent of this thread is to stimulate creative alternate uses for common materials that a smart trader might turn into credits. I know about that kind of plastic as well. I was raised on a farm. Lots of farm supplies come in plastic buckets and barrels today, and farmers use it for all sorts of things. However, I wouldn't use it as armor aginst swords and spears in the real world. The plastic material I was speaking of is quite a bit different than what you are using for SCA.
 
I don't think importing a steam engine, etc. made with modern materials would be that smart a money maker, as your market in replacement parts would be nil. As an aid to a colony planting, though, it would be great.
 
Originally posted by Andy Fralix:
I was raised on a farm. Lots of farm supplies come in plastic buckets and barrels today, and farmers use it for all sorts of things. However, I wouldn't use it as armor aginst swords and spears in the real world. The plastic material I was speaking of is quite a bit different than what you are using for SCA.
I wouldn't use bucket material either. The stuff I am talking about is 1/4" think and used for industrial 200 liter drums. And besides the extensive experience with blunt trauma it has seen limited testing agaiinst sharpened swords and spears, What I know of the sharps work is encouraging, but not conclusive. I.e., no one has tried a 150 lb crossbow or lunged with a 12 lb pike, but it takes 3mm hardened steel to stop those, anyway.

Have you done any testing at all on your medical thermoplastic? Like, say, hitting it with an icepick or baseball bat?

I thought I was supporting your point, that is that some cheap,available high tech materials (even discxarded packaging) can have great value on low-tech worlds. Apparently the letters "SCA" hit a nerve.
 
No, I am neutral on SCA. I have a plastic 55 gal drum in my back yard right now now, I intend to make a waterfall type garden fountain this spring after the weather warms backn up. It is just a thicker version of the 5 gal buckets farm chemicals come in these days - used to be in metal buckets. But if you try to reshape them in hot water or with a hair drier like the material my wife was using, they will "work" a little. About the second time you heat them, then turn brittle and start to break down. The medical usage stuff can be heated multiple times to "fine tune" the fit without harm. The next time you are in a drug store look in the area where the back braces and wrist supports are. You may find a general purpose hand splint with velco straps designed to immobilize a broken finger or sprained wrist. If you do, look at the plastic part. This material in the sheet form is fairly expensive. but still cheap compared to a mail jacket, etc.
 
A little more on the plastic. You can cut it cold with a hacksaw, but not a knife etc. When warm, a heavy duty pair of sissors works great, but if you need to cut very much you have to keep reheating it i.e. dunk in hot water for a few seconds. No to the icepick you need a drill when cold.
 
I suspect material specifically chosen as armor would be better than converted medical equipment. However, I suspect a low tech military would be much more interested in buying cheap assault rifles (AK-47 equivalents) than in buying plastic body armor.
 
Originally posted by Corejob:
Sounds like Kydex, which had it's start in the medical industry, and is now used extensively for knive sheaths and holsters, along with many, many other industrial applications.

http://www.kydex.com
That's exactly what it is. More than likely it has some competitors as well.
 
Originally posted by Anthony:
I suspect material specifically chosen as armor would be better than converted medical equipment. However, I suspect a low tech military would be much more interested in buying cheap assault rifles (AK-47 equivalents) than in buying plastic body armor.
Hey you are getting the cart before the horse (or what ever animal is the draft beast on your homeworld.)

After you sell one army the armor and get all that nation's wealth, you sell their enemy nation(s)something that will just out do that new armor you just made a killing on. If there 5 or 6 nations so much better. Just keep the next one slightly ahead of the last one. Don't kill the goose that laid the golden eggs until she lays all the gold.

Actually the main idea was, as stated elsewhere in this thread, How/what can you buy relativly cheaply and find a use for somewhere else that makes a diamond out of a lump of coal?
 
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