Hi Tech, Lo Pop

[ninthcouncil]

This may be a problem which has been done to death elsewhere, so forgive me if it's old hat.

Because the Traveller world generation mechanism doesn't link physical features with population or starport with anything, and only weakly connects tech level with other stats (except for starport, which is the dominant factor), it is not unusual to find worlds with excellent starports and tech levels, but very low populations. This isn't so much of a problem in core regions where such planets are just a few amongst many well developed high tech worlds and there is thus a "continuum". However, in less developed areas these sort of worlds start to become problematic, especially in regions which have no overreaching interstellar authority so they can't so easily be explained away as research enclaves or development projects.

The problem becomes particularly acute when such worlds crop up in regions where there aren't any other high tech worlds within a the immediate region. How are the low pop high tech levels of these worlds maintained? They don't have the economic base to survive without external assistance, and there isn't the wherewithal to supply this. For instance, looking at two neighbouring subsectors in the Hinterworlds, the planets with stellar tech levels or A-class starports are:

DARVIS

Agbi 1015 C23149B-9 Ni Po 603 Na
Undru 1120 C100125-9 Ni Va 904 Na
Rotstern 1212 D351457-9 Ni Po 714 Na
Lu 1313 B100668-9 Ni Va Na 624 Na
Arkon 1315 C56999B-A Hi A 113 Na
Varag 1417 A588762-8 Ri Ag 803 Na
Mainline 1519 B6797AB-9 M 814 Na
Peterstadt 1520 B83769A-9 M Ni 805 Na
Hont 1613 C479355-9 Ni 803 Na

This subsector works alright - Arkon's poor starport and Varag's excellent one are anomalies, but the sort that generates interesting detail rather than insurmountable confusion, and I've got an explanation lined up. Undru is close enough to other TL9 planets to be explained.

CROMAR

Glass 1711 B525856-A M 822 Na
Yellowtide 1719 C363226-9 Ni 904 Na
Annex 1720 B434300-C Ni A 104 Na
Skigg 1816 A100120-D Ni Va 213 Na
Namillo 1817 C666341-9 S Ni 220 Na
Likugash 2011 C537477-A Ni 423 Na
Effit 2015 A5936B6-A Ni 104 Na
Kishir 2016 B73A344-A Ni Wa 701 Na
Manak 2120 D433551-9 Ni Po 902 Na
Jaffik 2216 C9B2453-A Ni A 904 Na
Tamrice 2313 B332496-A M Ni Po 320 Na
Trial 2316 A363566-C F Ni 304 Na
Dar 2414 B666002-9 Ni 623 Na
Hypagg 2418 C474242-A S Ni 414 Cs

WTF? Annex and Skigg have tech levels well in excess of any of their neighbours (I've checked Silver Laurel too re Annex, it doesn't help), and tiny populations. You might be able to cobble up some explanation involving the Hivers over at Trial, but it's thin stuff. Those TL's look unsustainable to me.

Do you people have any smart ideas to cover these anomalies, or does it just get swept under the carpet?

(NB: Edited for misreading of Undru's gove type)

 

[Zaphod]

There are a number of things that can explain it. one could be a coperate world where there is a vested interest by a high tech megacorp to get minerals or other resources. They are the controlling interests on that world so the world takes on their corperate tech level. If it is a nice and habital world could just be a high tech out of the way vacation spot for the well off. the other higher population worlds are to hard to control by the corperate interests or lack the resources that the corperation wants. Just my .02 Cr

 

[travalv]

The real reason, as you know, is that Trav's world generation system is badly broken.

[Insert: ad for GURPS Traveller: First In]

But let's play around a little...

Let's consider noble enclaves first. Noble enclaves is fairly easy: if your nobility is land-based, various nobles can decide to keep a small, well-equipped settlement on their world as a "show the Flag" move. It might even be required: "If you can't hold on to your own world, then you lose your title!"

If your nobility is not land-based, it could well be a fashion statement, much like "having a house in the Hamptons". Every serious noble has their own private system somewhere: if you want to keep up with the Baronness', you simply *have* to have your own! Never underestimate the power of peer pressure! (Naturally, the corporate honchos and other who can play 'wannabe' nobles will hop on the bandwagon.)

They can be 'hideholes' for the wealthy, an obscure place to run to and store their wealth if a major group (corporate or a planetary govt) declares war on you. This probably happens often enough to be worth the insurance. Not so good if the Imperium turns against you, though...

They can be 'bases of operations' for various dissidents, political movements, and governments-in-exile. Out in a minor system, they can cause endless problems for the target system, yet be too expensive for a planetary government to drive out.

Cultural enclaves are possible, depending on how much wealth they have. You don't see anyone move to Anarctica because it's far too expensive to support themselves, and they won't have soveregnity. But in a wealthy cuylture, you could see many splinter groups head off to make their own heaven (or hell, as the case may be). A single, TL F world of 78 Billlion people could provide quite a number, all on it's lonesome...

(Useful source material: Sid Meiser's Alpha Centauri, either the game or the GURPS Sourcebook.)

My favourite idea involves factory planets: a single high-tech world, with tons of robots (but only a few pernament support personnel), pumping out the goods for a large number of low-tech worlds. Definitely doable, depending on how cheap transportation is. But why have this world in it's own system, instead of taking a moon in the same system as a high-pop/low-tech world? I would guess political and security issues. Safety might be involves, depending on how dangerous those factory robots are - you don't want an inhabited world nearby, if you are tossing around Big Rocks or Very High Explosives - or 'grey goo' nanites, if you allow nanotech.)

Another idea depends on the geography of jump space. If misjumps tend to deposit you in a system, then it makes sense to keep a 'rescue station' there for travellers.

A variant would make these hospice stations, like the Catholic church used to run. If so, you get to decide whose running these stations (One group? Many?) and their motivation (Holy kindness? Missionary work?) As an example, there is a meditative (vow of silence) group in France who makes an absolutely great liquor: they may well need a good starport and technology, if they 'scaled up' their operations to meet the Imperial demand.

(.1% of the sector population likes what you have to sell? That's a few hundred million people, right there! You had better set up your own starport then, merely to handle demand... )

********

And regarding grav tech... ever wondered why the Vilani discovered it so early in their history (during their TL 8, preJump IIRC), while Solomani didn't discover it till relatively late (during their Interstellar wars era)? Something for your players to reflect on, hmmm? There just might be an adventure involved there...

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
perhaps the reason for high tech low pop systems is the same as modern day western culture.
The population in most western style countries is dropping (more leisure more greed more i'l put of having kids untill later).
This is not a slur on any race cred or other (please insert minority of your choice), its just that middle classes are having fewer and fewer kids.
This is only a game and i'm shore that somewhere in the galaxy there is a planet where white anglosaxon protestant are a repressed minority.
I await the storm of protest with equanimity. (dam those readers digest books)
BYE.
I generaly put the serious stuff at the front then the rubbish guess which bit is which.

 

[vegascat]

Low Pop, High Tech
Sounds like a Corp outpost and or research station.
Throw in a class A starport, then you have a large number of robots doing manufacturing of sensitive spacecraft.
Disparaties like this are seeds for adventures.

 

[TKalbfus]

How about a Class A Starport sitting on a planet with a population of 0? The way the UWP is generated there is no connection between the population and the starport. A planet with a population of 0 can have up to 9 people on it. All of them would most likely be working at the Starport. You got to have a sense of humor when you come across a planet like this. Just outside the Starport in unimproved forest or jungle. I don't know what the tech level would be.

 

[RandyT0001]

You could try this Alternative Population Generation I've used IMTU.

Roll location, starport, size, atmosphere, and hydrographics as normal.

For worlds with hydrographics of 3+ and atmosphere of 6-7 roll D+3(+modifiers)
DM's: starport B+, +1; Size 3- or A, -1; Hydrographics A, -1

For worlds with hydrographics of 3+ and atmosphere of 4-5, 8-9 roll D+1(+modifiers)
DM's: Starport C, +1; starport B+, +2; Size 3- or A, -1; Hydrographics A, -1

For other worlds roll D-1(+modifiers)
DM's: Starport D, +1; Starport C+, +2, Size 0 +1, Scout Base +1

Hope it helps.

 

[ninthcouncil]

When generating from scratch, I'd probably just run through the results and redo anything that I couldn't live with, or which was too much like too many other places nearby.

Those UWP's I had problems with are in the Hinterworlds where I'm trying to stick to canon as far as possible. I think I've worked out how Skigg and Annex work IMTU, so I won't be needing to change them.

 

[TKalbfus]

You could try this Alternative Population Generation I've used IMTU.

Yeah that can resolve some problems, but sometimes I'd like to have a little comedy. How about a TL 1 world with a class A Starport? Why is the planet TL 1? Well that's deliberate to attract tourists who come to see "Ye Olde Knights" Jousting on the field. Also the planet could be set up as a "reality TV Show" with some off-worlders dressed as peasants or knights and interacting with the unsuspecting populous. It might be fun to start the PCs off as one of the natives in a quasi D&D setting and let them find out the truth. (ala Truman)

 

[legate_legion]

Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
Yeah that can resolve some problems, but sometimes I'd like to have a little comedy. How about a TL 1 world with a class A Starport? Why is the planet TL 1? Well that's deliberate to attract tourists who come to see "Ye Olde Knights" Jousting on the field. Also the planet could be set up as a "reality TV Show" with some off-worlders dressed as peasants or knights and interacting with the unsuspecting populous. It might be fun to start the PCs off as one of the natives in a quasi D&D setting and let them find out the truth. (ala Truman)

Hello fellow Travellers,

How can that happen, when a Class A Starport gives you a +6 to your TL?

 

[simontmn]

The generation system goes from 'info most likely to be needed' (starport class) down, so inherently is not ideal for logical generation of random systems, which should probably start from 'star type' and go from there.

If you want a realistic approach I suggest you generate the world's physical characteristics first, then do a population roll based off the atmosphere result (eg Earthlike atmosphere worlds should have higher average pops than vacuum worlds), then do tech level & starport class based off the population roll.

Depending on how long-settled & heavily populated you want the world to be, it could be something like:

Roll 2d6 with following mod:

Atmosphere code/mod
0/-7
1/-6
2/-5
3/-4
5/-3
6/-2
7/-3
8/-4
9/-5
A/-6
B/-7
C/-8
D/-7
E/-6
F/-5

This will give the majority of worlds few or no permanent inhabitants. For a densely settled sector, you can add +2 to the roll.

 

[TKalbfus]

The generation system also ignores the posibility of large communities living on a space station, or how about an abandoned Star Cruiser whose life support systems have been reactivated. With grav technology its also possible to live in the upper atmosphere of a gas giant, but most traveller statistics assume that gas giants are uninhabited. Imagine a floating city in a gas giant. The gas giant's gravity is 1 g, its day is about 24 hours long, and the city is located at an altitude where the air pressure is 1 bar. A bright yellow sun shines down from a blue sky with patchy white clouds. One looks down however and there is no ground, only more clouds, the deeper down one looks the more yellowish and reddish the clouds become. The atmosphere is not breathable of course as its mostly hydrogen and helium. Their are traces of more useful gases such as carbon dioxide, and there are plenty of white puffy water clouds at this altitude and it rains quite a bit. The Floating city has its own star port with a landing platform where starships can land. One way to represent this would be to substitute the letters LGG or SGG for the physical characteristics where they would occur in a terrestrial planet's UWP. so you might have something that looks like this. ALGG876-F

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
The generation system also ignores the posibility of large communities living on a space station, or how about an abandoned Star Cruiser whose life support systems have been reactivated. With grav technology its also possible to live in the upper atmosphere of a gas giant, but most traveller statistics assume that gas giants are uninhabited. Imagine a floating city in a gas giant. The gas giant's gravity is 1 g, its day is about 24 hours long, and the city is located at an altitude where the air pressure is 1 bar. A bright yellow sun shines down from a blue sky with patchy white clouds. One looks down however and there is no ground, only more clouds, the deeper down one looks the more yellowish and reddish the clouds become. The atmosphere is not breathable of course as its mostly hydrogen and helium. Their are traces of more useful gases such as carbon dioxide, and there are plenty of white puffy water clouds at this altitude and it rains quite a bit. The Floating city has its own star port with a landing platform where starships can land. One way to represent this would be to substitute the letters LGG or SGG for the physical characteristics where they would occur in a terrestrial planet's UWP. so you might have something that looks like this. ALGG876-F

Yummy... I like that Idea, even if it`s reminding me of Cloud City in the original StarWars sequel

Any GFX artists willing to draw/render this?