HG2 question

[Wol]

Hello.

1) In HG 2nd ed The rules state that in the pre combat decision step “The defending player announces all such decisions before the attacker.” and in the text “There are several decisions players must make before the firing begins. The defender must make all these decisions before the attacker.”.

Is the intent that the defender make these decisions first, announce them to the attacker, then the attacker make and announce their decisions, or that the defender makes their decisions, tells the attacker he has made them, attacker makes their, then defender announces and the attacker announces?

The example is unclear “The Imperial player wins the initiative and chooses long range. In the
pre-combat decision step the Solomani, suspecting a break-off attempt, decides to
use the Omega's emergency agility. Sure enough, the lmperial player announces
that all three of his ships will break off. “

2) How are sandcasters effective against missiles?

regards

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Hello.

1) In HG 2nd ed The rules state that in the pre combat decision step “The defending player announces all such decisions before the attacker.” and in the text “There are several decisions players must make before the firing begins. The defender must make all these decisions before the attacker.”.

Is the intent that the defender make these decisions first, announce them to the attacker, then the attacker make and announce their decisions, or that the defender makes their decisions, tells the attacker he has made them, attacker makes their, then defender announces and the attacker announces?

I would assume the attacker can use the information the defender discloses, otherwise it would say both records their decisions and reveal simultaneously.

2) How are sandcasters effective against missiles?

Same as is hinted in LBB2:

LBB2'77, p15:
Sandcasters: Sandcasters dispense abrasive particles into the path of enemy
targets, lessening the effectiveness of lasers, disrupting missile fire, and interfering
with enemy ship flight. Firing involves the discharge of one canister of sand (see
expendables) which must be replaced by purchase. Sandcasters cost CR 250,000
each.

Specified in JTAS Special Supplement 3: Missiles:

SS3 Revisited, p10:
Sand Effects: Any missile which passes through sand may be incapacitated by that
sand. For each 25 millimeters of sand that a missile passes through, throw 12+ for the
missile to be incapacitated by it. If incapacitated, the missile ceases to function.

 

[kilemall]

Re the sandcasters, they can be used as either defensive fire against successful hits from laser/energy or missile batteries. This is laid out on page 40 with the defensive allocation step, and page 45 with the missile penetration table covering sand or beam. Additional missile defenses are repulsors, and nuclear dampers for nuclear missiles.

At the bottom of page 45 there is the beam weapon table with sand being the only defense. Plasma and fusion weapons get +2 to penetrate sand.

All battery fire is called for on each target ship in sequence. The defense allocation is not made until all hits have been determined so the sand battery defense can go to whichever attack type is preferred.

Presumably the sand abrades or kinetically damages the missile. Alternative one can presume the missile warhead is a directed energy plasma jet like HEAT or a detonation laser and sand as acting as a barrier against a missile borne energy attack.

 

[Spinward Flow]

1) In HG 2nd ed The rules state that in the pre combat decision step “The defending player announces all such decisions before the attacker.” and in the text “There are several decisions players must make before the firing begins. The defender must make all these decisions before the attacker.”.

Is the intent that the defender make these decisions first, announce them to the attacker, then the attacker make and announce their decisions, or that the defender makes their decisions, tells the attacker he has made them, attacker makes their, then defender announces and the attacker announces?

This is about making the winning of initiative "work" by giving an advantage to the attacker.

If ... as the attacker (who won initiative) you KNOW, in advance, what the defender (who lost initiative) intends to do ... because the defender has to announce first ... then ... as the attacker you can modulate your actions during that combat round accordingly.

For example ...

The example is unclear

Yes, it unfortunately is for the question you're asking, but not for the answer that the example is providing.

The example provided is being done in the context of illustrating how the Pursuit Step would work in the event of a Break Off By Acceleration attempt ... which will require some amount of Set Up in order to achieve (because, multiple steps are required). So the example is dealing with a sort of scenario in which planning ahead can pay off when one side wants to escape from the other.
So let's walk through it, step by step, shall we?

LBB5.80, p41-42:

PURSUIT STEP
Ships breaking off by acceleration must begin at long range; they may break off from the line of battle or the reserve. Ships may break off alone or in groups; a group breaks off at the agility of its slowest ship. Ships breaking off from the reserve (assuming the line of battle has not been broken through) do so as if their agilities were two greater than they are. Enemy ships (from the line of battle or the reserve) may pursue if their agility is at least equal to that of the group breaking off. Each group of pursued and pursuers forms a small battle of its own. No ships ever return to the main battle. Ships may attempt to break off from their pursuers. A ship succeeds in breaking off if it is not pursued. Emergency agility may be used to determine agility for the purpose of breakoff and pursuit, if it has been declared.

Break Off By Acceleration:

• Must begin at long range
• May break off from the line of battle or the reserve
• May break off in groups of 1+ but groups break off at the agility of the lowest agility in that group
• Breaking off from reserve add +2 to their agility for the purposes of breaking off
• Pursuit may come from the line of battle or reserve, but get no agility bonus and must equal or exceed the agility of their quarry
• Each group that breaks off by acceleration becomes a different battle in the next combat step and the previous/main battle is not rejoined
• Craft that are not pursued automatically succeed in breaking off
• Emergency Agility must be declared at the start of a combat round in Game Turn Step 4B (see: LBB5.80, p46-47)

The important thing to note here is that there is the opportunity for a bit of a "head game battle" going on with this when winning initiative. It is possible to bait an opponent into using Emergency Agility (which will preclude the use of offensive weaponry, only defenses remain enabled), which then makes that craft a "free target" to shoot at for that combat round (they won't shoot back, because, Emergency Agility).

Because of the Breakthrough Step (LBB5.80, p41 and p47), any craft using Emergency Agility should not be the only craft put into the Line Of Battle ... because ...

BREAKTHROUGH STEP
A breakthrough occurs if all of one player's line of battle ships have been rendered incapable of firing any offensive weapons. If this occurs, the other player is allowed to fire all of his or her line of battle ships at any of the ships in the enemy's reserve. The (formerly) screened ships are not allowed to fire back, but may fire defensively. In the next turn, the player may form a new line of battle.

So if you've got 2+ craft and you put 1 craft in the Line Of Battle, but then have that 1 craft use Emergency Agility ... because you're expecting a Break Off By Acceleration attempt ... if you've LOST initiative for that combat round, you have to declare FIRST. Your opponent can then use that information, realize that your Line Of Battle is incapable of firing any offensive weapons (because of Emergency Agility) ... and change their plan of action. Instead of Breaking Off By Acceleration, the initiative winner can instead choose to ATTACK.

The Line Of Battle has no offensive weaponry available to the 1 craft on the Line Of Battle, meaning that a Breakthrough into the Reserve is available and the "not exactly screened" craft in the Reserve may fire defensively but cannot counterattack.

Meaning, the Initiative Loser set up an OWN GOAL and effectively "lost a turn" during which NONE of their craft can attack ... only defend ... while the attacker gets to take "free potshots" at everything on the Line Of Battle AND in the Reserve without any fear of taking retaliatory fire.

But, getting back to the Pursuit Step example that you're citing:

Suppose three lmperial ships, the Alpha (agility 4), Beta (5),and Gamma (5) are fighting three Solomani ships, the Chi (6), Psi (5), and Omega (5). The Omega has an emergency agility of 6. The lmperial player puts the Gamma in the line and his other two ships in reserve; the Solomani puts Chi and Psi in the line and Omega in reserve.

So basically, the arrangement looks like this for the Line of Battle and Reserves:

Imperial

1. Gamma (agility 5)
   • Alpha (agility 4)
   • Beta (agility 5)

Solomani

1. Chi (agility 6)
2. Psi (agility 5)
   • Omega (agility 5, emergency 6)

The Imperial player wins the initiative and chooses long range. In the pre-combat decision step the Solomani, suspecting a break-off attempt, decides to use the Omega's emergency agility. Sure enough, the lmperial player announces that all three of his ships will break off.

The Solomani fleet has to GUESS at the intentions of the Imperial fleet, because the declaration for the Imperial fleet happens AFTER the Solomani fleet has declared (because, loss of initiative).

LBB5.80, p46:

1. Battle Formation Step
2. Initiative Determination Step
3. Range Determination Step
4. Pre-combat Decision Step
   • A. Whether to Break Off (by Acceleration or Jump) this turn
   • B. Whether to use Emergency Agility
   • C. If a Black Globe will be on (decide rate of flicker)
     • The Defending Fleet announces all decisions before the Attacking Fleet, determined by win/loss of initiative in Step 2

Where this example "falls flat" is that in the FIRST round of combat for any encounter, the range is automatically long range.
LBB5.80, p39:

On the first round of any battle, however, the range is automatically long.

So the implication then is that the example being cited on LBB5.80, p41-42 is one in which the two fleets have already gone beyond the first round of combat, so the Break Off By Acceleration attempt is happening on combat round 2+ (because the winner of the initiative was allowed to choose long range, rather than having the choice made for them in the first combat round).

But back to the example.

Sure enough, the lmperial player announces that all three of his ships will break off. The combat step passes without major losses on either side.

Handwave Steps 5-7 (LBB5.80, p46-47) ... Combat, Damage and Breakthrough ... so we can get on with the example of Breaking Off By Acceleration.

In the pursuit step, the Beta automatically escapes because her agility is raised to 7 by being in the reserve; none of the Solomani can catch her. Chi and Omega (agility-6 each) pursue the Alpha (also effectively agility-6). Psi pursues Gamma.

Returning to our Fleet Formation from earlier ... each of the Imperials scatter (so 3 groups of 1 each)

Imperial

1. Gamma (agility 5) pursued by Psi
   • Alpha (agility 4+2=6) pursued by Chi and Omega
   • Beta (agility 5+2=7) escapes

Solomani

1. Chi (agility 6)
2. Psi (agility 5)
   • Omega (agility 5, emergency 6)

In the next round Alpha is incapable of breaking off and will probably be destroyed.

Because, the situation for Alpha has become:

Imperial

1. Alpha (agility 4)

Solomani

1. Chi (agility 6)
2. Omega (agility 5)

Gamma, fighting Psi, again gets the initiative and again tries to break off.

The situation for Gamma involves choosing long range again (as a precondition for being able to Break Off By Acceleration) and is:

Imperial

1. Gamma (agility 5)

Solomani

1. Psi (agility 5)

In the combat step she achieves a fortunate hit on Psi's maneuver drives and suffers no corresponding damage herself. Psi now has an agility-4 and is unable to pursue, so Gamma escapes.

So due to the combat damage, Psi (agility 4) is unable to pursue Gamma (agility 5) and thus Gamma escapes via Break Off By Acceleration.

Note that if Psi had won the initiative instead of Gamma, the Solomani side could have chosen SHORT range ... precluding the opportunity for a Break Off By Acceleration attempt until Gamma won initiative again and was able to choose long range as a precondition for being able to Break Off By Acceleration.

 

[Wol]

Thankyou very much. Quite nuanced. Food for thought.

regards

 

[Spinward Flow]

We make every pretense of competency around here ...