General Have you found CharGen to be in the way of playing Traveller?

[Spinward Scout]

Have you found that you can't get a game going fast enough because of CharGen or had people not want to play Travveler because of any aspect of Character Generation?

I'm looking for reasons for skipping CharGen and using Pre-Generated Characters.

Will Pre-Gens help more people play Traveller?

Do we need a Pre-Gen pack or just a pre-made Starship Crew? So people who want to play can just grab a Character and hit the ground running.

 

[mike wightman]

CT S:1 1,001 Characters - and go

 

[whartung]

I can roll you up a 1000 characters if you want. Book 1 and CotI careers (no B4/5/6 extended generation). I have code that will do that.

(I actually posted it somewhere on here, its Emacs Lisp.)

 

[coliver988]

for me chargen is what actually starts the roleplaying - each term is backstory. there are several conversations here about reading what those rolls mean (barely survived, what risks was the character taking and what happened, no skills earned, got a lazy term, picked up an odd skill, why?) Plus, the randomness of that process means I am not going to play the same character every time. And it often brings up more characterization for me.

personally, I do not like pregens - they are someone else's idea of what a character is and I feel that limits me. But I also know that is just one of my personality quirks and does not apply to most people.

And my group fortunately loves coming up with characters. We often have the session 0 and create our characters in context with each other. Mongoose 1e had this with connections and ideas about going through things concurrently which I really liked. We often roll up characters that have long stories together (one Conan game two were playing twins, and I was the uncle coming back from mercenary expeditions. A player who missed the 1st 2 sessions showed up claiming to be my son. My character *did* know his mother perhaps....it was very fun game with far more role playing than rolling)

 

[Condottiere]

Pregenerated characters are great for one off scenarios.

Part of the problem is the randomness, in contrast to a character points creation, which can with surgical precision recreate the concept you are envisioning.

However, that randomness is part of the Traveller DNA.

You do get to choose which edition you want to base the campaign on, and outside of mandatory skill sets, GURPS give you more control.

 

[Commander Truestar]

Actually, I find the results of Char Gen to be helpful in everything from providing hooks to enhancing game color.
If you have an issue with launching a game, provide the players with Pre-Gan characters for pop-up games then invite them to roll up characters that belong to them - for use in a campaign once you've gotten them into the Universe

 

[Takei]

I've never found CharGen to be a hindrance to home games. Echoing what others have said I've found it to be quite the opposite. I quite like Mongoose's use of skills packages to offset the randomness.

Whenever I've run or played at a con game however, it's pregens all the way. I'm also happy to use a pregen at a home game.

I'm not sure that pregens will help get more people into Traveller, although including a group of them in any quickstarts is a good idea.

 

[bookwyrm]

I'm looking for reasons for skipping CharGen and using Pre-Generated Characters.

You just have to find the reasons, they are there somewhere. If there are no reasons to be found, make one up.

There is a time for CharGen & a time for Pre-Gen Characters. The fun will follow.

 

[coliver988]

Pregenerated characters are great for one off scenarios.

Part of the problem is the randomness, in contrast to a character points creation, which can with surgical precision recreate the concept you are envisioning.

However, that randomness is part of the Traveller DNA.

You do get to choose which edition you want to base the campaign on, and outside of mandatory skill sets, GURPS give you more control.

and the "surgical precision recreate the concept you are envisioning" - in decades of RPGs, I've never had a specific concept (1). I start with a general idea sometimes, then figure out what the dice are telling me. I think that's why I'm a deer in headlights when it comes to point-buy types of games: I usually have no idea what I want to play until the dice suddenly give me a character.

but again - personal quirk. several of my group want to have precise control and that's why they don't like Traveller (well, that and most do not want to deal with fiddly details like having to pay for fuel. though for me those fiddly details are Traveller and why I like it). Though I do have a few house rules for those so there is at least more a general approach to their characters if they want and they usually end up pretty happy.

That, and as mentioned above, the skill packs mentioned above. I've used those and that helped people get what they wanted usually.

(1) actually played one game where the character had no idea no he even was. idea was he did not want to know, and over the campaign (it lasted months) the GM & I together worked in his backstory to fit his game world. That was actually a great deal of fun as that character was very collaborative. He ended up being the door between universes and did not want his universe invaded. Which is why he forgot everything. And was centuries old. See https://traveller-ct.blogspot.com/2022/01/character-challenge-2022-4-verner.html

 

[Commander Truestar]

but again - personal quirk. several of my group want to have precise control and that's why they don't like Traveller

I get the feeling they'd like MTU because my Char Gen process is one where you gain points in Char Gen and then spend those points to buy skill levels in concert with the LBB charts.

So, you can gain 10 points during a year-long assignment in the Navy Line/Crew High Guard and then chose to buy skills "Only" in Navy Life, Shipboard life or the other tables they'd be qualified to roll on for that assignment

My system was published in an early Freelance Traveller Magazine

 

[Stei'awtliyrl]

Ever since I was an Aslan kit, Traveller CharGen has been my fave. But the OP has a point, it's a bit cumbersome. I even attended a convention event where "Can YOU Survive Traveller Character Generation" was the game being played. (Which was very fun btw, the only downside was after making characters we all were eager to play them)

If the goal is just getting to the Adventure, pregenerated characters are probably your best option. Session 0.5 could be something as simple as having the players choose characters built on archetypes, make connections with each other and select the campaign skills (like MongTrav does). Then the back half starts the campaign. This is also a really good strategy for replacing characters during game or giving a guest player a character for the night.

 

[Enoki]

I see three major problems with char gen the way it is:

1. It is scenario oriented. Rolling up a fully developed character to play a chosen scenario. The character generation system is not geared towards long-term play in multiple scenarios or an on-going game. This results in players choosing to go multiple terms to get skills rather than go into the game with minimal skills and acquire more as play goes on.

2. Little or no system for character growth. This goes back to 1. above. The generation system is scenario driven rather than geared to long-term play of the same character. If there were character growth--this could be as much based on actions in play as just leaving it to the player to choose--then it would make playing a young, low-skill, character more desirable.

3. You can die or be otherwise wrecked in char gen meaning, most of the time, having to start over with another character.

My preference is for the players to simply choose their base character values from a pre-generated list of say 100 or so and then roll up for their terms. I allow them to pick the skill(s) they want from the lists provided in the rules rather than roll randomly off those lists. So, this is random but limited to skills they could select for the type of character they are generating. Assignments and outcomes per year are random and rolled up. Death or serious injury are ignored and instead, they simply get nothing for that part of a term. Think of it sort of like hitting bankrupt on Wheel of Foolishness.

This means they get a character they had some control over designing rather than it being totally random and it really makes little difference in terms of the game or play. Choosing some character that has awesome stats and skills only means they make things harder for the party in the game as I up the issues and problems tossed at them.

For example, say a player takes a set of awesome stats that make their character really top end. They then roll the character up as say an Imperial Marine who reaches general and has a number of heroic awards and awesome skills. The party is doing something that requires them to be low key and stay out of the spotlight to get it done. Player with the retired general finds everywhere they go they're on the 5-o'clock news and people are continually recognizing that general and wanting things like an autograph... Problem! Celebrity is NOT what you wanted, but you rolled it up...

You see, in the end, the character stats really don't matter. What matters is fitting the game and scenario to the characters.

 

[Condottiere]

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Karthikeyan-C-Karthikeyan-C/publication/338621396/figure/fig2/AS:847830176526337@1579149874502/Check-Point-Spotting-algorithm-of-midlife-crises-setting-in-a-referral-pathway-to-find.ppm

As I had said years ago, Traveller characters are people resolving their midlife crisis.

I would guess, first, they get that starship, they've always wanted.

Or, that their better half filed divorce papers over.

 

[Condottiere]

To a certain extent, edition character generation seems based on coming to a somewhat predetermined outcome.

In Mongoose, you get background skills, then the first term six service skills, and finally, a swag bag of skills, that you can distribute to the character party, to cover any essential ones that may be missing.

And, you can have any number of skill/zero, and upto three times the sum of Education and Intelligence characteristics.

On an average of seven, that's forty two levels of skills, about one per annum from eighteen to sixty.

The difficulty is getting access to them, and the upgrades.

Tertiary education in your first term seems about the closest you get to steer your preference.

 

[coliver988]

I see at least two main threads here: the first from the original question: Have you found that you can't get a game going fast enough because of CharGen or had people not want to play Traveller because of any aspect of Character Generation? And the 2nd was my creating new comments around chargen so sort of derailed the thread*

To the original post: if I had a very specific game in mind, then yes, I think pre-gens are the way to go if you want to run that and need specific character skills and want to jump right in. I do think, though, that the skill packages greatly ease that burden so that you can really have the best of both worlds: the players can generate their characters and ensure you are going to get the skills needed to run the specific game.

As per Condottiere: In Mongoose, you get background skills, then the first term six service skills, and finally, a swag bag of skills, that you can distribute to the character party, to cover any essential ones that may be missing.

In the end for me, it all comes down to the group. My group loves char gen so generally would not be happy with pregens (though we have one player/GM who often gets the starter games and hands out the pregens. I oddly had a very huggy halfling in a game. I added to her bakstory that she had been married 4 times, but I digress).

And yeah, another point from Enoki: 2. Little or no system for character growth. This goes back to 1. above. The generation system is scenario driven rather than geared to long-term play of the same character. If there were character growth--this could be as much based on actions in play as just leaving it to the player to choose--then it would make playing a young, low-skill, character more desirable. I came into RPGs with Traveller, so levelling up was never a thing for me - I always played middle-aged characters unless they got kicked out. But this topic is probably worth its own thread (and there may already be one out there)

* and on derailing: conversation during our Monday game was that we get distracted a bit. I corrected the group to say we play a bit and getting distracted seems to be the main thing.

 

[Condottiere]

I believe that tertiary education, is actually free.

At default, you have a twenty six over thirty six chance in being accepted, at eighteen.

You get a major skill/one, and a minor skill/zero, and education plus one.

If you graduate, again default twenty six over thirty six chance, the skills improve by one each.

You get a bonus to qualify for a number of careers, and another for a commission in a military service.

 

[Commander Truestar]

I see three major problems with char gen the way it is:

1. It is scenario oriented. Rolling up a fully developed character to play a chosen scenario. The character generation system is not geared towards long-term play in multiple scenarios or an on-going game. This results in players choosing to go multiple terms to get skills rather than go into the game with minimal skills and acquire more as play goes on.

Most of the players I have had come from a Dungeons & Dragons background.
As a result, they want to either become the finest single-discipline professionals (Nav-6, Pilot 4, Vacc Suit 4 and nearly nothing else)
Or, they want to train their characters into Swiss-Army-Characters.

As I see it, that is not Traveller.
The way I see Traveller, the Char gen system provides characters who need to work together to be a "Swiss-Army-Crew"
Each member of a team provides their skills to a whole.
In that way, I've had my campaign running since 2007, and I stress the work of the team over highlighting the individual characters

2. Little or no system for character growth. This goes back to 1. above. The generation system is scenario driven rather than geared to long-term play of the same character. If there were character growth--this could be as much based on actions in play as just leaving it to the player to choose--then it would make playing a young, low-skill, character more desirable.

There I agreed with you 100%
As a result, I developed my own system, related to my Char Gen system.
So, say a Character has Gun Combat - Laser Weapons 1 and wants to improve to Level 2.
In Char Gen, improving and Gun Combat skill demands 10 "points" each (with points earned for events in My Char Gen procedure) for Level 1,2 or 3
It then costs 15 points each for levels 4 and 5, then 20 points each for levels 6+

That said, each player can have their character "regularly train or practice" with a single targeted skill until they make their improvement roll
Each in-game month in which they train or practice, they get one "Tik", or two if they were trained by an instructor.
Once they earn enough Tiks for the "mandatory" number of points (See above), they must make a Formidable skill roll to increase their skill as intended.
DM's = +1 for Int >9, +2 for Int >11 ; +1 per additional Tik over the mandatory level.
So, if "Frank" has an INT of B, and has been studying Gun Combat-Laser Wep's for 13 months of in-game time, he needs to make a formidable roll of 14+ with +2 and +3 = 9+ on 2D6

3. You can die or be otherwise wrecked in char gen meaning, most of the time, having to start over with another character.

Here is where my real life experience steps in.
I was shot and - according to three doctors who confirmed it - killed in combat.
Then, I woke up on an autopsy table. Sent the doctor setting up for the procedure to the CCU for three days.

So, I "am" the character killed in Char Gen.
Following what the doctors called, "Spontaneous Unexplained Self-Resurrection, I got into IT, interacted with Dr, Hawking(which led to a stint working for Dr. Sagan) and more.

Given that experience, I don't let my player's character die. I use charts from JTAS to have them legally drummed out of the service, or discharged after injuries which made the medically unfit for service, etc..
Or, I have the character experience a wound, for which they get the appropriate decoration(Purple Heart, wound Badge, etc)

In this way, there is a chance of character advancement while teams share their skills as a team to solve issues.

 

[Dragoner]

Have you found that you can't get a game going fast enough because of CharGen or had people not want to play Travveler because of any aspect of Character Generation?

I'm looking for reasons for skipping CharGen and using Pre-Generated Characters.

Will Pre-Gens help more people play Traveller?

Do we need a Pre-Gen pack or just a pre-made Starship Crew? So people who want to play can just grab a Character and hit the ground running.

I provide pregens, and a ship with a deck plan in Motor Cycos, and a starport with encounter tables for players to knock about. Does it help? Can't hurt, because you have the standard character generation in the book.

I have seen self proclaimed "Traveller People" doing a disservice to Traveller attacking other games.

 

[whartung]

I provide pregens, and a ship with a deck plan in Motor Cycos, and a starport with encounter tables for players to knock about. Does it help? Can't hurt, because you have the standard character generation in the book.

Beauty of these things is folks can always choose not to use them.

 

[Dragoner]

Beauty of these things is folks can always choose not to use them.

Or the ref can use them as npc's.