Hard Times - Stage 2: Collapse of Financial Markets
- Thread starter Yabusama
- Start date
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Quite frankly, probably not. Major worlds like Efate are probably moderately self-sufficient, as most of their economy's production is internally consumed.
The only way for it to be heavily affected is by having any major market worlds or supplier worlds "disappear". And its major trading partners will, of necessity, likely be no more than J6 (or so) away. Since none of these worlds "disappeared", the effect of the collapse on the Efate is likely minimal at worst, irrelevant at best.
So, with Efate well ensconced in a Safe, the collapse is pretty much irrelevant to it economically. Politically and Psychologically, the collapse could be important, but not economically.
Again, this is all canon. If mysterious Vargr hordes came running into the coreward half of the Regina subsector and killed is main supplier or customer worlds, or simply eliminated reliable interstellar trade, then Efate would be heavily affected and, depending on how self-sufficient you see it, could even be in danger of dying out.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Quite frankly, probably not. Major worlds like Efate are probably moderately self-sufficient, as most of their economy's production is internally consumed.
The only way for it to be heavily affected is by having any major market worlds or supplier worlds "disappear". And its major trading partners will, of necessity, likely be no more than J6 (or so) away. Since none of these worlds "disappeared", the effect of the collapse on the Efate is likely minimal at worst, irrelevant at best.
So, with Efate well ensconced in a Safe, the collapse is pretty much irrelevant to it economically. Politically and Psychologically, the collapse could be important, but not economically.
Again, this is all canon. If mysterious Vargr hordes came running into the coreward half of the Regina subsector and killed is main supplier or customer worlds, or simply eliminated reliable interstellar trade, then Efate would be heavily affected and, depending on how self-sufficient you see it, could even be in danger of dying out.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Quite frankly, probably not. Major worlds like Efate are probably moderately self-sufficient, as most of their economy's production is internally consumed.
The only way for it to be heavily affected is by having any major market worlds or supplier worlds "disappear". And its major trading partners will, of necessity, likely be no more than J6 (or so) away. Since none of these worlds "disappeared", the effect of the collapse on the Efate is likely minimal at worst, irrelevant at best.
So, with Efate well ensconced in a Safe, the collapse is pretty much irrelevant to it economically. Politically and Psychologically, the collapse could be important, but not economically.
Again, this is all canon. If mysterious Vargr hordes came running into the coreward half of the Regina subsector and killed is main supplier or customer worlds, or simply eliminated reliable interstellar trade, then Efate would be heavily affected and, depending on how self-sufficient you see it, could even be in danger of dying out.
epicenter00
SOC-13
You could have various problems, a sort of ripple effect.
For instance, let's say that Efate doesn't actually produce enough food to feed its populace, in what might be a common occurance. Efate might have enough land surface, but its farmers might have been driven out of work a long time ago as they couldn't compete with imported foodstuffs being shipped in by the gigaton.
It's in a factional safe, so disruption isn't going to be so bad that people are going to be starving on the streets. But let's say nearer to the fringe, there's a HiPop planet that loses agricultural exporters to feed itself. It finds other Ag planets deeper in the safe and raises prices while it comes up with a longer-term solution. Now, the planets that used to depend on those Ag planets need to find food sources from still deeper in the DoD for food imports (raising prices again as the farmers and AgriCorps realize it's a seller's market). Eventually this kind of trade disruption is going to have an effect on Efate. While Efate can certainly shift production around and find new supply sources so any disruption would be temporary, there will be a period where basic foodstuffs would suffer from inflation, which in turn may result in an economic depression as people lose confidence in the economy, more disaffected people join the Ine Givar leading to a rise in terrorism, etc.
Psychological effects can also have huge economic fallout as well. Like for instance, with contact with the rest of the Imperium sporadic, people might lose confidence in megacorporations. While in reality it wouldn't make a huge difference, people tend to think of such corporations as a single entity and if the rest of the company is ailing (even though megacorporations are so dispersed they wouldn't notice), so with a loss of confidence might come a people dumping their shares of such a company in favor of local companies. This is going to cause economic fallout. Banks might lower the credit ratings for companies, loans might be called, divisions may close and people be put out of work as a result of a perception instead of a reality.
For instance, let's say that Efate doesn't actually produce enough food to feed its populace, in what might be a common occurance. Efate might have enough land surface, but its farmers might have been driven out of work a long time ago as they couldn't compete with imported foodstuffs being shipped in by the gigaton.
It's in a factional safe, so disruption isn't going to be so bad that people are going to be starving on the streets. But let's say nearer to the fringe, there's a HiPop planet that loses agricultural exporters to feed itself. It finds other Ag planets deeper in the safe and raises prices while it comes up with a longer-term solution. Now, the planets that used to depend on those Ag planets need to find food sources from still deeper in the DoD for food imports (raising prices again as the farmers and AgriCorps realize it's a seller's market). Eventually this kind of trade disruption is going to have an effect on Efate. While Efate can certainly shift production around and find new supply sources so any disruption would be temporary, there will be a period where basic foodstuffs would suffer from inflation, which in turn may result in an economic depression as people lose confidence in the economy, more disaffected people join the Ine Givar leading to a rise in terrorism, etc.
Psychological effects can also have huge economic fallout as well. Like for instance, with contact with the rest of the Imperium sporadic, people might lose confidence in megacorporations. While in reality it wouldn't make a huge difference, people tend to think of such corporations as a single entity and if the rest of the company is ailing (even though megacorporations are so dispersed they wouldn't notice), so with a loss of confidence might come a people dumping their shares of such a company in favor of local companies. This is going to cause economic fallout. Banks might lower the credit ratings for companies, loans might be called, divisions may close and people be put out of work as a result of a perception instead of a reality.
epicenter00
SOC-13
You could have various problems, a sort of ripple effect.
For instance, let's say that Efate doesn't actually produce enough food to feed its populace, in what might be a common occurance. Efate might have enough land surface, but its farmers might have been driven out of work a long time ago as they couldn't compete with imported foodstuffs being shipped in by the gigaton.
It's in a factional safe, so disruption isn't going to be so bad that people are going to be starving on the streets. But let's say nearer to the fringe, there's a HiPop planet that loses agricultural exporters to feed itself. It finds other Ag planets deeper in the safe and raises prices while it comes up with a longer-term solution. Now, the planets that used to depend on those Ag planets need to find food sources from still deeper in the DoD for food imports (raising prices again as the farmers and AgriCorps realize it's a seller's market). Eventually this kind of trade disruption is going to have an effect on Efate. While Efate can certainly shift production around and find new supply sources so any disruption would be temporary, there will be a period where basic foodstuffs would suffer from inflation, which in turn may result in an economic depression as people lose confidence in the economy, more disaffected people join the Ine Givar leading to a rise in terrorism, etc.
Psychological effects can also have huge economic fallout as well. Like for instance, with contact with the rest of the Imperium sporadic, people might lose confidence in megacorporations. While in reality it wouldn't make a huge difference, people tend to think of such corporations as a single entity and if the rest of the company is ailing (even though megacorporations are so dispersed they wouldn't notice), so with a loss of confidence might come a people dumping their shares of such a company in favor of local companies. This is going to cause economic fallout. Banks might lower the credit ratings for companies, loans might be called, divisions may close and people be put out of work as a result of a perception instead of a reality.
For instance, let's say that Efate doesn't actually produce enough food to feed its populace, in what might be a common occurance. Efate might have enough land surface, but its farmers might have been driven out of work a long time ago as they couldn't compete with imported foodstuffs being shipped in by the gigaton.
It's in a factional safe, so disruption isn't going to be so bad that people are going to be starving on the streets. But let's say nearer to the fringe, there's a HiPop planet that loses agricultural exporters to feed itself. It finds other Ag planets deeper in the safe and raises prices while it comes up with a longer-term solution. Now, the planets that used to depend on those Ag planets need to find food sources from still deeper in the DoD for food imports (raising prices again as the farmers and AgriCorps realize it's a seller's market). Eventually this kind of trade disruption is going to have an effect on Efate. While Efate can certainly shift production around and find new supply sources so any disruption would be temporary, there will be a period where basic foodstuffs would suffer from inflation, which in turn may result in an economic depression as people lose confidence in the economy, more disaffected people join the Ine Givar leading to a rise in terrorism, etc.
Psychological effects can also have huge economic fallout as well. Like for instance, with contact with the rest of the Imperium sporadic, people might lose confidence in megacorporations. While in reality it wouldn't make a huge difference, people tend to think of such corporations as a single entity and if the rest of the company is ailing (even though megacorporations are so dispersed they wouldn't notice), so with a loss of confidence might come a people dumping their shares of such a company in favor of local companies. This is going to cause economic fallout. Banks might lower the credit ratings for companies, loans might be called, divisions may close and people be put out of work as a result of a perception instead of a reality.
epicenter00
SOC-13
You could have various problems, a sort of ripple effect.
For instance, let's say that Efate doesn't actually produce enough food to feed its populace, in what might be a common occurance. Efate might have enough land surface, but its farmers might have been driven out of work a long time ago as they couldn't compete with imported foodstuffs being shipped in by the gigaton.
It's in a factional safe, so disruption isn't going to be so bad that people are going to be starving on the streets. But let's say nearer to the fringe, there's a HiPop planet that loses agricultural exporters to feed itself. It finds other Ag planets deeper in the safe and raises prices while it comes up with a longer-term solution. Now, the planets that used to depend on those Ag planets need to find food sources from still deeper in the DoD for food imports (raising prices again as the farmers and AgriCorps realize it's a seller's market). Eventually this kind of trade disruption is going to have an effect on Efate. While Efate can certainly shift production around and find new supply sources so any disruption would be temporary, there will be a period where basic foodstuffs would suffer from inflation, which in turn may result in an economic depression as people lose confidence in the economy, more disaffected people join the Ine Givar leading to a rise in terrorism, etc.
Psychological effects can also have huge economic fallout as well. Like for instance, with contact with the rest of the Imperium sporadic, people might lose confidence in megacorporations. While in reality it wouldn't make a huge difference, people tend to think of such corporations as a single entity and if the rest of the company is ailing (even though megacorporations are so dispersed they wouldn't notice), so with a loss of confidence might come a people dumping their shares of such a company in favor of local companies. This is going to cause economic fallout. Banks might lower the credit ratings for companies, loans might be called, divisions may close and people be put out of work as a result of a perception instead of a reality.
For instance, let's say that Efate doesn't actually produce enough food to feed its populace, in what might be a common occurance. Efate might have enough land surface, but its farmers might have been driven out of work a long time ago as they couldn't compete with imported foodstuffs being shipped in by the gigaton.
It's in a factional safe, so disruption isn't going to be so bad that people are going to be starving on the streets. But let's say nearer to the fringe, there's a HiPop planet that loses agricultural exporters to feed itself. It finds other Ag planets deeper in the safe and raises prices while it comes up with a longer-term solution. Now, the planets that used to depend on those Ag planets need to find food sources from still deeper in the DoD for food imports (raising prices again as the farmers and AgriCorps realize it's a seller's market). Eventually this kind of trade disruption is going to have an effect on Efate. While Efate can certainly shift production around and find new supply sources so any disruption would be temporary, there will be a period where basic foodstuffs would suffer from inflation, which in turn may result in an economic depression as people lose confidence in the economy, more disaffected people join the Ine Givar leading to a rise in terrorism, etc.
Psychological effects can also have huge economic fallout as well. Like for instance, with contact with the rest of the Imperium sporadic, people might lose confidence in megacorporations. While in reality it wouldn't make a huge difference, people tend to think of such corporations as a single entity and if the rest of the company is ailing (even though megacorporations are so dispersed they wouldn't notice), so with a loss of confidence might come a people dumping their shares of such a company in favor of local companies. This is going to cause economic fallout. Banks might lower the credit ratings for companies, loans might be called, divisions may close and people be put out of work as a result of a perception instead of a reality.
I think the psychological effects are very important, populations may perceive there will be shortages and begin stockpiling. Items at the upper limits of the planet’s tech level would be prime targets for hoarding and as a result demand would soon outstrip supply (ironically creating shortages). This would lead to price increases and a general feeling of panic and uncertainty amongst the masses, and as already suggested, banks may begin to foreclose on loans and investments.
As trading of shares is done electronically, it only takes a few minutes of panic selling to lead to a massive market crash as others jump on the band wagon as well (a factor in the 1987 London crash). Before you know it the stock market has plummeted, people are queuing at the banks to get their cash out, demand for shiny high-tech items has escalated and a thriving black market developed to meet the new demand. It would be very easy to see the government putting troops on the streets in areas which could be volatile (such as Efate) due to Ine Givar activity and civil unrest.
As trading of shares is done electronically, it only takes a few minutes of panic selling to lead to a massive market crash as others jump on the band wagon as well (a factor in the 1987 London crash). Before you know it the stock market has plummeted, people are queuing at the banks to get their cash out, demand for shiny high-tech items has escalated and a thriving black market developed to meet the new demand. It would be very easy to see the government putting troops on the streets in areas which could be volatile (such as Efate) due to Ine Givar activity and civil unrest.
I think the psychological effects are very important, populations may perceive there will be shortages and begin stockpiling. Items at the upper limits of the planet’s tech level would be prime targets for hoarding and as a result demand would soon outstrip supply (ironically creating shortages). This would lead to price increases and a general feeling of panic and uncertainty amongst the masses, and as already suggested, banks may begin to foreclose on loans and investments.
As trading of shares is done electronically, it only takes a few minutes of panic selling to lead to a massive market crash as others jump on the band wagon as well (a factor in the 1987 London crash). Before you know it the stock market has plummeted, people are queuing at the banks to get their cash out, demand for shiny high-tech items has escalated and a thriving black market developed to meet the new demand. It would be very easy to see the government putting troops on the streets in areas which could be volatile (such as Efate) due to Ine Givar activity and civil unrest.
As trading of shares is done electronically, it only takes a few minutes of panic selling to lead to a massive market crash as others jump on the band wagon as well (a factor in the 1987 London crash). Before you know it the stock market has plummeted, people are queuing at the banks to get their cash out, demand for shiny high-tech items has escalated and a thriving black market developed to meet the new demand. It would be very easy to see the government putting troops on the streets in areas which could be volatile (such as Efate) due to Ine Givar activity and civil unrest.
I think the psychological effects are very important, populations may perceive there will be shortages and begin stockpiling. Items at the upper limits of the planet’s tech level would be prime targets for hoarding and as a result demand would soon outstrip supply (ironically creating shortages). This would lead to price increases and a general feeling of panic and uncertainty amongst the masses, and as already suggested, banks may begin to foreclose on loans and investments.
As trading of shares is done electronically, it only takes a few minutes of panic selling to lead to a massive market crash as others jump on the band wagon as well (a factor in the 1987 London crash). Before you know it the stock market has plummeted, people are queuing at the banks to get their cash out, demand for shiny high-tech items has escalated and a thriving black market developed to meet the new demand. It would be very easy to see the government putting troops on the streets in areas which could be volatile (such as Efate) due to Ine Givar activity and civil unrest.
As trading of shares is done electronically, it only takes a few minutes of panic selling to lead to a massive market crash as others jump on the band wagon as well (a factor in the 1987 London crash). Before you know it the stock market has plummeted, people are queuing at the banks to get their cash out, demand for shiny high-tech items has escalated and a thriving black market developed to meet the new demand. It would be very easy to see the government putting troops on the streets in areas which could be volatile (such as Efate) due to Ine Givar activity and civil unrest.
Starviking
SOC-13
I was assuming a location more like Diaspora.
Definitely. Due to the laggardly nature of my reply, this has been expanded upon by other posters. Concerning high volume systems, if they are high pop and reasonable tech, they should have the manufacturing ability, reserves, and manpower to ensure production of vital equipment, extraction of vital resources, and secure trade in those things they cannot source in their system...
...not withsanding pirates, unrest, and Black War strikes!
If the system is high-volume, but not self-sufficient (low-pop, medium-pop and/or inhospitable environment). At least they get the news of the financial situation confirmed quickly and can make plans accordingly.
Starviking
Starviking
SOC-13
I was assuming a location more like Diaspora.
Definitely. Due to the laggardly nature of my reply, this has been expanded upon by other posters. Concerning high volume systems, if they are high pop and reasonable tech, they should have the manufacturing ability, reserves, and manpower to ensure production of vital equipment, extraction of vital resources, and secure trade in those things they cannot source in their system...
...not withsanding pirates, unrest, and Black War strikes!
If the system is high-volume, but not self-sufficient (low-pop, medium-pop and/or inhospitable environment). At least they get the news of the financial situation confirmed quickly and can make plans accordingly.
Starviking
Starviking
SOC-13
I was assuming a location more like Diaspora.
Definitely. Due to the laggardly nature of my reply, this has been expanded upon by other posters. Concerning high volume systems, if they are high pop and reasonable tech, they should have the manufacturing ability, reserves, and manpower to ensure production of vital equipment, extraction of vital resources, and secure trade in those things they cannot source in their system...
...not withsanding pirates, unrest, and Black War strikes!
If the system is high-volume, but not self-sufficient (low-pop, medium-pop and/or inhospitable environment). At least they get the news of the financial situation confirmed quickly and can make plans accordingly.
Starviking
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Yabusama:
I'd say, judging where Efate is, along a strong Main, but at the coreward edge of the Domain of Deneb near the vargr Extants & Zho Consulate, that at worst she might suffer a -1, to -2 TL drop, and a -1 Starport affect. regina is only 6-7 parsecs rimwards of her in the same subsector.
Now, an Isolated system...(J-2 or better to reach her) they'd be in deeper doo doo than Efate will be, IMO.
I'd say, judging where Efate is, along a strong Main, but at the coreward edge of the Domain of Deneb near the vargr Extants & Zho Consulate, that at worst she might suffer a -1, to -2 TL drop, and a -1 Starport affect. regina is only 6-7 parsecs rimwards of her in the same subsector.
Now, an Isolated system...(J-2 or better to reach her) they'd be in deeper doo doo than Efate will be, IMO.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Yabusama:
I'd say, judging where Efate is, along a strong Main, but at the coreward edge of the Domain of Deneb near the vargr Extants & Zho Consulate, that at worst she might suffer a -1, to -2 TL drop, and a -1 Starport affect. regina is only 6-7 parsecs rimwards of her in the same subsector.
Now, an Isolated system...(J-2 or better to reach her) they'd be in deeper doo doo than Efate will be, IMO.
I'd say, judging where Efate is, along a strong Main, but at the coreward edge of the Domain of Deneb near the vargr Extants & Zho Consulate, that at worst she might suffer a -1, to -2 TL drop, and a -1 Starport affect. regina is only 6-7 parsecs rimwards of her in the same subsector.
Now, an Isolated system...(J-2 or better to reach her) they'd be in deeper doo doo than Efate will be, IMO.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Yabusama:
I'd say, judging where Efate is, along a strong Main, but at the coreward edge of the Domain of Deneb near the vargr Extants & Zho Consulate, that at worst she might suffer a -1, to -2 TL drop, and a -1 Starport affect. regina is only 6-7 parsecs rimwards of her in the same subsector.
Now, an Isolated system...(J-2 or better to reach her) they'd be in deeper doo doo than Efate will be, IMO.
I'd say, judging where Efate is, along a strong Main, but at the coreward edge of the Domain of Deneb near the vargr Extants & Zho Consulate, that at worst she might suffer a -1, to -2 TL drop, and a -1 Starport affect. regina is only 6-7 parsecs rimwards of her in the same subsector.
Now, an Isolated system...(J-2 or better to reach her) they'd be in deeper doo doo than Efate will be, IMO.
That sounds about right to me, but consider what that means from a “man on the street” role playing perspective. Imagine a modern nation who suddenly looses half of it’s trading partners and falls from living with machine guns, missiles, television, submarines, helicopters, nuclear power plants [call it TL 6] to revolvers, shotguns, artillery, telephones (no radio or television), steamships, trains (no automobiles), airships (no aircraft), and coal power [call it TL 4]. Imagine the social chaos and hardship as technologies slowly failed one by one. Imagine people struggling to relearn lost skills (you are an auto mechanic who now needs to learn to repair steam locomotives if you want to find a job).
Although this is not the exact TL situation on Efate, it represents a 2 TL drop in a modern society like the one most of us live in (so we can relate). The details of a higher TL will be different, but the social disruption and fear will be the same – you need to learn to do things the way that they were done 80 years ago with equipment that belongs in a museum. The price of failure is unimaginable.
Sounds like exciting times ahead. Invest in those dying industries hurt by competition from cheap off-world labor, their stock is about to skyrocket to unimaginable heights.
That sounds about right to me, but consider what that means from a “man on the street” role playing perspective. Imagine a modern nation who suddenly looses half of it’s trading partners and falls from living with machine guns, missiles, television, submarines, helicopters, nuclear power plants [call it TL 6] to revolvers, shotguns, artillery, telephones (no radio or television), steamships, trains (no automobiles), airships (no aircraft), and coal power [call it TL 4]. Imagine the social chaos and hardship as technologies slowly failed one by one. Imagine people struggling to relearn lost skills (you are an auto mechanic who now needs to learn to repair steam locomotives if you want to find a job).
Although this is not the exact TL situation on Efate, it represents a 2 TL drop in a modern society like the one most of us live in (so we can relate). The details of a higher TL will be different, but the social disruption and fear will be the same – you need to learn to do things the way that they were done 80 years ago with equipment that belongs in a museum. The price of failure is unimaginable.
Sounds like exciting times ahead. Invest in those dying industries hurt by competition from cheap off-world labor, their stock is about to skyrocket to unimaginable heights.
That sounds about right to me, but consider what that means from a “man on the street” role playing perspective. Imagine a modern nation who suddenly looses half of it’s trading partners and falls from living with machine guns, missiles, television, submarines, helicopters, nuclear power plants [call it TL 6] to revolvers, shotguns, artillery, telephones (no radio or television), steamships, trains (no automobiles), airships (no aircraft), and coal power [call it TL 4]. Imagine the social chaos and hardship as technologies slowly failed one by one. Imagine people struggling to relearn lost skills (you are an auto mechanic who now needs to learn to repair steam locomotives if you want to find a job).
Although this is not the exact TL situation on Efate, it represents a 2 TL drop in a modern society like the one most of us live in (so we can relate). The details of a higher TL will be different, but the social disruption and fear will be the same – you need to learn to do things the way that they were done 80 years ago with equipment that belongs in a museum. The price of failure is unimaginable.
Sounds like exciting times ahead. Invest in those dying industries hurt by competition from cheap off-world labor, their stock is about to skyrocket to unimaginable heights.
