GURPS Traveller

[Secrect Cow Level]

Hello one and all! I'm tempted to pick up the GURPS Basic Set at some point in the near future, but hearing all the negative comments about GURPS in various posts I'm not sure. I'd appreciate any advice on how the system works and why people do or don't like the system. Thanks and have a great day!

 

[al duc]

First of all, I don't think you should rely on the number of negative comments posted about GURPS on these boards. There seems to be a lot of juvenile GURPS-bashing here, of the "my game is better than yours" sort.

From my point of view, GURPS is a solid game: the core of the system is quite simple, and additional parts can easily be grafted unto it. Of course, this can require a bit of GM control: if you let your player use anything from any GURPS sourcebook (and there are a lot of them), managing the game can become a nightmare if you're a novice.

However, for me the main advantages of running Traveller with GURPS is the possibility of using ideas from other GURPS books. For example, I have this idea about the Techno-nobles of Lakou (Five Sisters/Spinward Marches) battling each others using Mecha...

If you're interested in GURPS, my advice is to download GURPS Lite at the SJGames website, a free 32-page document covering the basics of the GURPS system. You'll be able to quickly judge by yourself if the game interests you. Also, it's complete enough so that you can easily play GURPS Traveller using only that and the GT corebook. Many people do!

Hope this is usefull!

 

[Skylinkdave]

There were a few things that were compelling about the GURPS system. Such as, the fact that it is skill-based and not class- or level-based. The combat system looked reasonably realistic and modular. Part of the reason I wanted to try it was for the very fact that it was so different from the standard D&D type games.

The reason my group decided to go with T20 was the superior (IMO) character generation (more like Classic Traveller with the whole Prior History thing), and the critical mass of d20 books within our group. Besides, if you ask me, Traveller transcends the actual rules system you ultimately use. Go with whatever you're comfortable with.

I'd sell you my non-Traveller GURPS books (Basic, Compendium, etc.) but I still hope to try it out someday. Whether you decide to use GURPS or not, their Traveller books are great campaign material no matter which rules set you decide to use.

Dave

 

[Ben W Bell]

However also the GURPS Traveller books are good solid sourcebooks and are good sources for information that has been out of print for many years. Having all the alien information gathered in one place is good with the Aliens books for example.

I have all the GURPS Traveller books myself, but don't own a GURPS rulebook and have never used the system. However for a Traveller player the books alone are worth it I believe even without the rule system.

 

[trader jim]

GURPS...great stuff...I will NEVER bad mouth or put down GURPS TRAVELLER!!!!...just to many good things to say about it. I like and enjoy the different system, play it for a change...fun!!.
I love the Great Back ground BOOKS...always usefull.....even there "weakest" book has many useful adventure "nuggets"....nice and chewy...
cant wait till their next books hit the market..will pay RETAIL for them!!..mix everthing up with "classic" Traveller, it really expands your Universe!!..apparently Mr. Miller likes it also...thats why he granted them a Liscense and even renewed it!!!...in my opinion any one who bad mouths it is rather shortsighted, and they are missing a lot!!....keep up the good work GURPS GUYS....lets get the new stuff on the market NOW!!

 

[MJD]

I wroked on GURPS Traveller.

The rules are a bit different, but I've happily used them and pugged in other GURPS supplements like Martial Arts.

Some of the sourcebooks I like, some I don't like so much. But they're all professional and useable, and full of crunchy Traveller goodness.

So yeah, GURPS is okay. You could do a lot worse than giving it a try.

 

[KrasnyKot]

I myself had used GURPS Traveller for the last two or three years, and, yes, I agree on the background. As usual the lads and lasses at SJG do a really fine job at research. Their historical books are really good. They did the same approach toward Traveller's history.
But the game mechanics can be quite awkward with a modern setting (autofire rules are realistic, as far as I can see, but to say the least - clumsy).

 

[notagoodusername]

Although I personally don't get on with the GURPS rules, thier sourcebooks are amazing. GURPS Traveller Starports, for one example, is an incredible book for any Traveller Referee. Then again, I know people who won't play anyhting but GURPS.

You'll have to give it a try and see how you like it.

Shane

From the amusing Christopher Thrash:
"We are GURPS. You will assimilated. We will add your distinctive setting and background to our own. Resistance is futile."

 

[Secrect Cow Level]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! How complex is GURPS? A lot more complex then CT but easier than MT? Much esier than TNE but as complex as ROLEMASTER? Is it harder to play than it needs to be or is it a smooth and elegant system?

I'm glad to hear that most of the sourcebooks are useful regardless of system used. I've been wanting to buy the Alien Realms books but worried that there would compability issues with CT, MT, or T4.

 

[Takei]

The earlier post recommending downloading a copy of GURPS Lite is the best way to find out how complex the system is. (There are even copies of the GURPS Lite included in WWII and Transhuman Space).
As far as complexity goes, in it's base form, GURPS is dead simple; roll 3d6 and get under your skill or ability. The task system described in 9 words! Where it can get complicated is all the optional rules but the key word there is OPTIONAL.

Personally, I have only refed GT once and found that combat was a bit too lethal for my group. We prefer a more cinematic game and getting hit by an ACR burst doing say 6d6 damage when your Health is only 3d6 makes for a short game. Many would argue that this is realistic and the players should avoid firefights. Can't argue there, but it depends on your style of play. I still intend to give GT another try.

As has been said already the books are great references even if you don't play GURPS. Starports has already been mentioned (and is my personal favourite), but Far Trader and First In are also very good.

 

[notagoodusername]

As Takei says, there are versions of GURPS Lite for WWII and Transhuman Space, the latter of which is Sci-Fi oriented so may be your best choice.

Good call on your favourite GT book there Takei. Mine too. A much neglected part of Traveller considering the frequncy of use.

Shane

 

[Hal]

Regards to the complexity of GURPS...

I have played GURPS since 1986. I've also used other game systems as well. Overall, I'd rate GURPS as a moderately GOOD system when it comes to naration *and* reasonable realism. For the record, my wife got involved in GURPS purely by saying "what would I do if I were there". If she could imagine it, GURPS has a way to deal with it. This is NOT to say that GURPS has rules for every nit picking detail - but the game mechanics are rather "standardized. That is, sensory discernment rules are easily used. Skills that do not exist in the game can be invented on the spot by asking yourself "which stat would this fall under?" and "Is this easy to learn, average to learn, or hard to learn". Where it BOGS down if you ask me?

Unfamiliarity. Like any game system, familiarity or lack thereof will cause problems. I will state however, that since 1986, I've used GURPS melded with CT because the rules for character advancement are a little easier to swallow than the rules for CT. I do however, miss the random pregame character generation for use with GURPS TRAVELLER <sigh>. If anyone wants to email me regards to questions they might have for GURPS TRAVELLER, feel free to email me - and I will respond.

 

[N.I.C.E. Labs]

Originally posted by al duc:
First of all, I don't think you should rely on the number of negative comments posted about GURPS on these boards. There seems to be a lot of juvenile GURPS-bashing here, of the "my game is better than yours" sort....

I'll do my best not to do so, but I have negative things to say, though more specificially at SJG and SJG's business practices which has definately colored my perceptions of SJG products. I will admit and disclaim that these opinions, though based in fact, are my opinions and due to those I do not patronize GURPS products (with the exception that I bought two ship deckplans for Traveller, and even then there are displeasures). I wish in no way to berate or degrade anyone who enjoys the GURPS system and if I offend I am sorry...again, these are my views. The GURPS system in and of itself is a good system and if you enjoy it that is what matters.

Through friends of mine in the game-publishing industry we have seen SJG too many times abscond with other people's ideas and games, calling them their own (there is a consensus that GURPS stands for 'Generic Underhanded Roleplay Pilfering System', but I digress). The GURPS system is good, because basically it's a near direct (unauthorized) copy of the Hero Game system (Champions). In terms of Traveller, while not saying that SJG has proprietory rights over the game and it's materials, it does appear to engage in practices that ensures that people will not purchase any Traveller product other than their own. The best example is the Behind the Claw suppliment for the spinward marches.

I will say it is a wonderful sourcebook and I applaud the effort put into it. Each world in the Spinward Marches has a detailed entry, not just a UPP code. Where I have a problem with it is it is a general-use reference detailing each world...INCLUDING any previous published adventure. All the classic adventures...Twilight's Peak, Research Station Gamma, etc....the worlds that these adventures take plan on reveal the secrets, making them useless to run. GURPS Traveller seems to be making sure that the only Traveller to be played will be GURPS, even if they have to wreck the rest to do it. Granted I am of the CT school so this probably hits closer to home to me than others, but still it is a concern. It's not the game that bothers me, it's how they use it.

Again, how SJG got the GURPS system aside, it IS a good system and if you enjoy it, then by all means ignore my quasi-off topic remarks and enjoy yourself. My only suggestion is that if you do, thoroughly review the material before you let your players have access to it, especially if you plan on playing any of the wonderful Traveller modules...the very cornerstones of Traveller, or your time will be wasted.

 

[eskil]

I bought the GURPS "Starports" just to test the waters and see if I liked it. To my surprise I liked it quite alot so tomorrow I am going to get the "Far Trader" and "First In" books.

I've never played GURPS and I am not planning to do so either. But it seems that the GT books have a lot to offer(at least for me).

 

[al duc]

N.I.C.E. Labs: Of course you have the rights to your opinions, but honestly I wonder if you're not a little unfair. If you permit me a direct quote from the GURPS Basic Set: "One important influence was Hero Games' Champions, for the flexibility of its character-creation system." The inspiration is directly acknowledged up-front, which is more than most publisher would do. Also

As for BtC, I fail to see how a three-line synopsis can really prevent anybody from enjoying any of the classic adventures. If necessary, any of them can be easily transplanted on other worlds with the players being none the wiser...

Also, I think it would be fair to bear in mind that at the time BtC came out, the classic adventures were out of print for more than a decade and a half. That's not what I would call direct competition... As someone who, at the time, was new to Traveller, I appreciated being able to really learn what was going on in the Spinward Marches, without being forced to hunt down impossible to find little black books.

 

[MJD]

It was a tough call. But how do you write about the Marches of 1120 without mentioning major events that were supposed to occur in 1107? Thus we took the classic adventures (then long OOP) as history.

The outcry if we'd pretended they didn't happen at all would have been just as bad...

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by N.I.C.E. Labs:

I will say [Behind the Claw] is a wonderful sourcebook and I applaud the effort put into it. Each world in the Spinward Marches has a detailed entry, not just a UPP code. Where I have a problem with it is it is a general-use reference detailing each world...INCLUDING any previous published adventure. All the classic adventures...Twilight's Peak, Research Station Gamma, etc....the worlds that these adventures take plan on reveal the secrets, making them useless to run. GURPS Traveller seems to be making sure that the only Traveller to be played will be GURPS, even if they have to wreck the rest to do it.

I have my own objections to Behind the Claw (as poor Martin knows only too well, right? ) but that particular aspect is one I thouroughly approved of and thought the authors had gotten exactly right. The concept that times change and things happen helps add versimilitude to the setting and having references to events in the old CT adventures no more spoils them than publishing GURPS Scarlet Pimpernel spoils the Scarlet Pimpernel books (that is, sure it spoils them if you're not careful, but it's the GM's own damn fault if he is not careful).

Hans

 

[Gallowglass]

AS a matter of preference, I avoid using the GURPS system (I don't personally like the core mechanic) but whilst I have no DIRECT experience of GURPS Traveller books (except see below), SJG sourcebooks are generally excellently researched and written.

I do have most of the Planetary Surveys and the one for Denuli is BRILLIANT, a superb follow up to the CT adventure.

 

[Jame]

I'll just go and say that GURPS is better for ideas and background as opposed to actual play. My primary problem is generating a character (building one in order to play it as opposed to using one in play), although I think the advantages/disadvantages system is better that the d20 feats system on the basis that I think that many d20 feats are better used as skills.

So I suppose that I would use a GURPS-influenced version of T20.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by MJD:
It was a tough call. But how do you write about the Marches of 1120 without mentioning major events that were supposed to occur in 1107? Thus we took the classic adventures (then long OOP) as history.

The outcry if we'd pretended they didn't happen at all would have been just as bad...

Actually, it probably would have been worse.

While I do have some nits regarding BtC, that is most definitely NOT one of them. I actually enjoyed how most of them were done in a reasonably subtle manner. Some you wouldn't even notice unless you had actually seen the adventures before.