Gross Domest Products for Spinward Subsectors

[Hal]

Hi guys.

I'm not sure how pretty this will look, and I'm not good at formatting things here - but I'm making this available for anyone who wants it. What it is, is a listing of Gross Domestic Products per subsector. This does not take into account what the planet's political affiliation is, nor does it take into account the red or amber status of the worlds in question. It just lists what the GDP is for each subsector.

How did I get this value? Per GURPS FAR TRADER, I multiplied the Per capita Income for each planet by its population value. This Per Capita Income value is Based on the tech level of the world, its trade classifications such as Rich, Industrial, Agricultural (good modifiers) as well as by Poor, Desert, Asteroid, and Non-Industrial (bad modifiers).

Those who are interested in seeing just how much money is available per subsector can look at the chart and see an "approximation" (I'm sure I blundered on a few worlds with typographical errors or something). If you want the Excel spreadsheet from which this was done - feel free to email me. These Values are in Megacredits - (CrImp).

GDP
Sector Name GDP per Sector

</font>

• Chronor....................87,459,386.58</font>
• Querion.....................59,032,168.99</font>
• Darrian......................51,453,548.33</font>
• Five Sisters.................2,216,248.56</font>
• Jewell........................64,334,337.88</font>
• Villis..........................14,192,318.03</font>
• Sword Worlds.........203,489,663.13</font>
• District 268...............38,412,164.11</font>
• Regina....................106,798,404.92</font>
• Lanth.............................960,757.10</font>
• Lunion.....................265,222,991.14</font>
• Glisten.....................134,973,486.56</font>
• Aramis.....................112,736,645.46</font>
• Rhylanor..................208,232,522.21</font>
• Mora........................248,999,147.99</font>
• Trin's Veil..............1,896,889,839.66</font>

Hopefully - there are those of you who might find this useful

 

[mike wightman]

Oh yes.

It's useful

Thanks Hal

 

[Hal]

You're Welcome. I did spot one error - Tenalphi in Lunion should have been listed as TL 11 instead of the TL 4 I had As you can see however, it modified the GDP for the sector by a mere .43 Megacredits

265,222,991.57

 

[Hal]

Just a reminder: you don't have to buy a fleet with what ever budget you utilize based on this... you only have to maintain a fleet (which assumes that you've already purchased the ships in question).

 

[mike wightman]

Up to ten times yearly budget, according to TCS

 

[Hal]

That's what I'm going by too - thanks to Christopher Thrash for reminding me of it.

 

[far-trader]

Wouldn't you have to figure in the purchase and replacement of the capital investment (the fleet)? And all the training, basing, etc., etc.

If all I have to pay is the maintenance/operations costs then I'm off to get a new ride today

All the usual problems with these scenarios aside thanks for the list.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

http://maps.travellercentral.com/map.html

includes GDP for every charted sector (among other data).

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
http://maps.travellercentral.com/map.html

includes GDP for every charted sector (among other data).

That is one sweet looking webpage

I noted that you used a Gross Domestic Product for the entirety of the Spinward Marches. By chance, what did you use to get that figure? You didn't by chance divide the total Sectorwide Product by the number of sapients did you?

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Wouldn't you have to figure in the purchase and replacement of the capital investment (the fleet)? And all the training, basing, etc., etc.

If all I have to pay is the maintenance/operations costs then I'm off to get a new ride today

All the usual problems with these scenarios aside thanks for the list.

There is that issue. The problem is - and I'm inclined to go with Chris Thrash's explanation - that all of the various things such as basing costs, replacement costs of obsolete equipment, wages, retirement pensions, etc - are all covered under that 10%. Since I don't have access to his resources and the stuff he looked at, I'm inclined to go with his comments. Mind you, that if you LOSE any ships - you either have to raise your taxes to replace it quickly - or you need to wait for the 10 years it takes to save enough money from the maintenance costs you weren't paying for the destroyed ship - to buy the new one.
While I'm thinking about it - someone talked about purchasing ships via the standard "mortgage" routine given in Traveller. Somehow - I suspect that the shipyards will only deliver a ship after it has been fully paid for. I suspect that the reason for this is due to the fact that you can't get back your ship if the Government should happen to be late in payments or defaults on the "Loan" entirely. Just my thought on the matter. I wonder if anyone can shed some light on this regards to modern day shipyards. Would they do this?

 

[BetterThanLife]

The US Navy pays for ships over time. And anything not covered in the budget is paid for by selling T-Bills. So Governments can fiinance ships, Though you would have a difficult time repossesing one. Of course if you piss the government off by not agreeing to terms they, depending on the type of government could always nationalize the shipyard. Oops.!

 

[BetterThanLife]

HAL brilliant numbers and kudoson the work. Did you include the Imperial planets of Pax Rulin and District 268 in the Glisten Subsector? (Or do I have to find the formula and figure it out.)

 

[flykiller]

While I'm thinking about it - someone talked about purchasing ships via the standard "mortgage" routine given in Traveller. Somehow - I suspect that the shipyards will only deliver a ship after it has been fully paid for. I suspect that the reason for this is due to the fact that you can't get back your ship if the Government should happen to be late in payments or defaults on the "Loan" entirely. Just my thought on the matter. I wonder if anyone can shed some light on this regards to modern day shipyards. Would they do this?

modern day non-military shipyards are presently producing ships at a loss, trying to drive each other out of business.

in the u.s. ships are paid for as they are built, year by year, based on contracts (which include cancellation clean-up fees. do a web search on the recently cancelled apache helicopter program). theoretically the government can default and renege, but such an event would cost the government far more than it would gain. the loss of a shipyard and skilled workers that would take decades to replace, the resulting inability to maintain and repair the newly appropriated vessels, the political crisis that would follow such a major economic dislocation, and the voting out of office of the local senators and representatives that allowed this to happen, all make it very much in the government's interest to honor its obligations.

note that the imperial nobility face few such constraints. "I'm not elected and there are plenty of other shipyards" could become a factor. the nobility, however, are likely to have invested heavily in shipyards, and so may be led to tend their economic, if not their moral, interests.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
HAL brilliant numbers and kudoson the work. Did you include the Imperial planets of Pax Rulin and District 268 in the Glisten Subsector? (Or do I have to find the formula and figure it out.)

Unfortunately, district 268 is a separate entity. The spreadsheet is available by going to http://users.adelphia.net/~alaconius and then going to the downloads page.

NOTE: the spread sheet does contain some errors. The only sheets that look to be reasonably correct are the subsector sheets alone. I noted at least TWO worlds mis-attributed to the wrong subsectors from the main list. I intend to rebuild the main list by adding all the subsectors together again.

 

[Hal]

Once GURPS NOBLES comes out, I think I will try and map out the number of Nobles and see where it goes...

 

[jasper]

HMM your mission far trader and hal is a simple repo job. The last know location is on the disk.
Only a few marines and navy pukes stand in you way.
Go forth and repo the sixth fleet.
This would be an very interesting adventure.

 

[far-trader]

That's an easy mission. The time limited hardwired control circuits that were subcontracted to my firm will render the whole fleet dead in space if they fail to insert the correct hexflex coded keys during the appointed annual maintenance window. And once the keys are inserted the same hardwired control cirucuits will execute an automated sequence to bring them back to our shipyards for said maintenance should they not already be there.

but yeah, there's an interesting adventure idea in that

 

[BetterThanLife]

In most cases they don't mortgage the ships they mortgage teh country/planet. They may be buying the military on credit but using Treasury Bills instead of simply mortgaging the ships. And if you think it might be difficult to collect. Considering the Debt still owed from both Poland and Russia to the US from WWII.... (Yes every dime that the Soviets received through Murmansk was paid for, very publically, very little of the debt for the stuff from the Southern route was ever paid for. With new loans and guarantees going on now, what are we going to do foreclose on Russia? Poland is in the same boat. Chase Manhattan Bank almost went under in the early 80s because Mexico defaulted on loans. You think Chase now owns Mexico?

So go foreclose on Forboldn. Their bad investment in Zhodane tech has them behind in their payments.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Hal, How do I calculate the GDP for a planet that I only have CT stats for? Is there a conversion table? (Pax Rulin Subsector is on the Rimward Border of Glisten Subsector and was presented in Adventure 4 Leviathian.)

There isn't much there but since it is under the domain of the Glisten Subsector Government, it should be included, though I expect it won't add any more than the few planets under Imperium Jurisdiction/Glisten's domain in District 268 does. (About MCr120,000)

 

[RainOfSteel]

You have to create a new Base Per-Capita Income table (from GT:Far Trader: Page 14), one that is expressed in CT:Credits instead of GT:Credits. How you convert that (given that the TL scale is also different), is up to you.

After making the new table, just run the GWP calculation: Pop x Per-Capita Income.

Add all worlds in the Subsector, Sector, whatever, together for a summary value. You can select for Allegiance Codes (Allegiance Code = "Im" is in all my queries covering the Imperium, for example) or any other attributes to sift through the data.