Gravity and Light and Sensor Technology

[Father Fletch]

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/gravity_speed_030107.html

Since Gravity propagates at the same speed as light this means that all gravitic phenomenon and their derivative sensors will operate on the same time lag. Now I will confess that I thought gravity worked across great distances instantaneously, that is the classic Newtonian understanding. But it turns out that indeed gravity is not that fast. It is a relativistic phenomenon as postulated by Einstein. IMTU that means that the change in local gravity brought about by the entry of a fleet of ships will have the same lag in detection as their actual EM signature. The main feeling I get from this is that starships will be even harder to detect than before. Sure sensors can detect them, but now it will be subject to more delay than before. (Perhaps I am hopelessly ignorant in this but I always enjoy being educated)

 

[Anthony]

I'm pretty sure Traveller always assumed speed-of-light sensors, so it doesn't really have any effect one way or another.

 

[s-feige]

Hmm, did you mean speed-of-light, or faster-than-light?

I'm no friend of physics so perhaps I do not grasp the overall point...

Have a nice day,
Aldan Romar

 

[manley_t]

I feel that I should pipe in that in that test which has the researchers calling that Gravity operates at the speed of light -- it has some scientists that are not convinced and say that what the researchers really did was measure the speed of light and not the speed of gravity.

That said, if you were to have Gravity operate at the speed of light in your game, that would mean that it has a finite travel time and, yes, any gravitational effect would take time to be measured just like all other phenomenon.

Personally, I don't see any reason to change the way you've been playing. There's always 'flavor of the week' postulates that are put forth that either turn out to be true, but invariably they turn to be different than originally reported -- but the follow up work is never really reported....

 

[Father Fletch]

After further research this does appear to not be the final word...And silly boy that I am I kind of thought it was a strong argument given what I had read before. Sort of like the time dialation experiments done with aircraft in the 70's to show special relativity. Further reading has raised the questions of conservation of angular momentum and terran solar system orbital stability arguing for a Newtonian gravatational argument. Especially telling and puzzling is the black hole and their gravity/light relationship. Thanks for the wake up slap Big Tim!

 

[Nurd_boy]

Originally posted by Anthony:
I'm pretty sure Traveller always assumed speed-of-light sensors, so it doesn't really have any effect one way or another.

If I remember right (please feel free to correct me...) there is an effect of microwaves(?) travelling faster through a solid than they do through air...it was shown on a PBS special about time travel being possible, effcts of going near the speed of light, things like that...(or was it an elctron beam?).....if any one else saw it, pipe in !!...

such a FTL effect could be harnessed for faster sensors.......CR@@P ! its been to long since my last physics class !

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by Nurd_boy:
If I remember right (please feel free to correct me...) there is an effect of microwaves(?) travelling faster through a solid than they do through air...it was shown on a PBS special about time travel being possible, effcts of going near the speed of light, things like that...(or was it an elctron beam?).....if any one else saw it, pipe in !!...

such a FTL effect could be harnessed for faster sensors.......CR@@P ! its been to long since my last physics class ![/QB]

That's not actually surprising. The speed of light through a medium (like air or glass) is slower than through vacuum and depends upon the nature of the medium and the wavelength of the light. The trick is to make the microwaves go through vacuum faster than the speed of light.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Nurd_boy:
If I remember right (please feel free to correct me...) there is an effect of microwaves(?) travelling faster through a solid than they do through air...[/QB]

If it's what I'm familiar with, it's not really relevant. Basically, what it does is collapse a wave-front; the _tip_ of the wave arrives at the speed of light, but by chopping off the tail, the time between the peak leaving one end, and the peak arriving at the other end, is FTL.

It's not really relevant to sensors, though it could have some effects in electronics.

 

[Nurd_boy]

Originally posted by Anthony:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Nurd_boy:
If I remember right (please feel free to correct me...) there is an effect of microwaves(?) travelling faster through a solid than they do through air...

If it's what I'm familiar with, it's not really relevant. Basically, what it does is collapse a wave-front; the _tip_ of the wave arrives at the speed of light, but by chopping off the tail, the time between the peak leaving one end, and the peak arriving at the other end, is FTL.

It's not really relevant to sensors, though it could have some effects in electronics.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]hmm, the demonstation they showed (I do remember this part!) was 2 emitters and 2 recievers, one set up normally transmit thought air...the other attached to a solid medium and a measurement showed the waves through the solid arrived faster than the air transmitted signal(by a fraction, but still noticable).
...they then tied it into time travel using the idea that if you could create a worm hole (2 openings tied together) take one into space at near light speed and return, THAT end would still be the same age as the one left behind, but in the future thus creating a time tunnel to two specific points
....they also went on to discuss quantum frothe and the sub-(sub?)atomic level, where fmiliar physics gets a bit fuzzy....GEEZ!I should of recorded it, but I tuned in about 5 minutes into the program, right in the middle of the 'what if' or 'if you could, how would it be done' part.

(there was a progarm of the same style exploring the idea of cloning dinosaurs, if you wanted to: how you it be done...)

NOVA?...I think they where...