Got Mine!

[LordRhys]

I received mine in the mail yesterday.

I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed.

Complaints:

No playable non-human information, not even the barest minimum on the Major Races. You can't play a non-human without designing your own from scratch.

No usable Weapon Stats in the book except for the skimpy information on page 240.

Pretty much no Vehicle Stats.

No Small Craft Stats.

No Small Craft Design Rules.

No Ship Stats except the almost useless descriptions on pages 358 & 359.

The CD-ROM says it has Weapons and Armor files that don't exist.

Instead of useful information we're saddled with a 15-page Starship Recognition Guide. Nice, but not as useful as some actual ship info.

I can understand leaving unnecessary items out of the book, but these things that were left out were actually needed to play the game.

And even if there wasn't room in the book, SOME of this information could have at least been included on the CD-ROM. Why wasn't it?

 

[Baltech Budapest]

I don't have the book yet so forgive me if I am way off with this but doesn't the book have 'maker' systems? I was led to believe that those systems were included so you could design stuff yourself.
Also about the major alien races, isn't the book supposed to be setting neutral in the same vein as CT books 1-3?

 

[LordRhys]

Yes the maker sections allow you to make your own stuff.
That's no substitute for a list of pre-made equipment like every other edition has had.

As for the Major Alien Races, the book mentions them and even has some equipment designed for them. It just doesn't have enough usable information about them so that you could make a Major Race Character. It wouldn't have taken much.

 

[Supplement Four]

No playable non-human information, not even the barest minimum on the Major Races. You can't play a non-human without designing your own from scratch.

Hmm. Almost not OK, but, I'll let it slide on this one.

No usable Weapon Stats in the book except for the skimpy information on page 240.

WHAT?! A book as big as that, and there's no Equipment Chapter? I'd heard about the gunmaker stuff, but I guess I assumed that there'd be a base Equipment Chapter AND the tools to make your own stuff.

Wow. That is disappointing.

Pretty much no Vehicle Stats.

Ditto the above. I'm not expecting a complete vehicles section, but at least as much as the Traveller book--the A Weapons & Armor chapter with at least that many samples. A few vehicles. The five or seven major starships.

Getting real disappointed hearing this.

No Small Craft Stats.

My God! What is this book? Nothing but Fire, Fusion & Steel on steroids? No normal Core Rulebook trappings?

No Small Craft Design Rules.

Wow. Amazing.



What the hell was Marc thinking?

This thing is starting to sound like a $75 doorstop. The RPG's answer to Heaven's Gate. Like getting excited about a new Star Wars movie then watching The Phantom Meanace.

 

[aramis]

Calling it FF&S on steroids isn't quite right. FF&S is much better grounded in real world units, and has more detail.

T5 has more USEFUL detail; the detail it generates is mostly pure game stats.

Thing Maker is for making your equipement list
Vehicle Maker for making your vehicles list
Ship Maker for designing ships in the Small Ship Universe range.
System and World Gen is directly comparable to Bk 6 or MT. Many of the same flaws, too, but a bit of updating has occurred. Some elements from Pocket Empires have been included, too.


There's plenty to "solo-play" your way to a custom TU.

 

[LordRhys]

There are a lot of good things in the book, but leaving these things out (especially since they're such easy fixes) seems like such a big oversight.

There is a good bit of pre-made equipment, about 20 pages of stuff just after the Thing Maker section. But that doesn't make up for the fact that they left out Smallcraft, Vehicles, Vehicle Weapons, Weapons, Explosives, and Robots.

The Starship Recognition Guide should have been left out to make room for these things. Sure it's pretty and I like it, but fluff should never override useful content.

 

[Supplement Four]

Calling it FF&S on steroids isn't quite right. FF&S is much better grounded in real world units, and has more detail.

OK, that's cool and attractive. I like the option of building my own personal sandbox from the ground up or having the tool to make my own scifi rpg from story source material.

But, I also just want to be able to roll up some characters and play the game, having most of what I need to play the game in the Core Rulebook, like most RPG's.

It sounds like T5 is lacking in this regard.

I've still got mine coming, so I guess I'll see soon.

There is a good bit of pre-made equipment, about 20 pages of stuff just after the Thing Maker section.

THAT'S good to hear.

But that doesn't make up for the fact that they left out Smallcraft, Vehicles, Vehicle Weapons, Weapons, Explosives, and Robots.

Exactly.

 

[LordRhys]

And I would have liked to have at least the bare minimum of info needed to create characters of the Non-human Major Races.

Sure, I can create my own Stats, but that's a good deal of work and is most likely going to clash with the info on these races that I'm sure already exists.

Anyone have these stats?

Even Beta Stats would be much better than nothing at all.

 

[Murdoc]

I don't know about other versions, but CT and MT didn't come with stats for major races in the core rules either, and MT talked about them in the IE. While I would have liked this too, I think T5 was just made to be more generic, like CT was, with optional setting info to come later. That's the impression I get when I see the list of things that seem to be missing. How about to balance this out and not turn everyone who doesn't have more info off of T5 (a doorstop, really?), we see some positive comments as well? If need be I'll start a new thread. Just off the top of my head I can list things I love being: QREBS (#1!), Senses, Benchmarks, Genetics, Personals, Expanded TL rules, the Personal Day, Flux, FTL higher than Jump-6 (inc. "Fantastic Drives") and the unique rules for many of the careers (like how Functionaries have to roll for Office Politics instead of Survival. ).

 

[Baltech Budapest]

I don't know about other versions, but CT and MT didn't come with stats for major races in the core rules either, and MT talked about them in the IE. While I would have liked this too, I think T5 was just made to be more generic, like CT was, with optional setting info to come later. That's the impression I get when I see the list of things that seem to be missing. How about to balance this out and not turn everyone who doesn't have more info off of T5 (a doorstop, really?), we see some positive comments as well? If need be I'll start a new thread. Just off the top of my head I can list things I love being: QREBS (#1!), Senses, Benchmarks, Genetics, Personals, Expanded TL rules, the Personal Day, Flux, FTL higher than Jump-6 (inc. "Fantastic Drives") and the unique rules for many of the careers (like how Functionaries have to roll for Office Politics instead of Survival. ).

I'd certainly like to see a separate thread dedicated to the positive aspects of T5. As I referred to in a previous post, I think it's grossly unfair of people to post negative comments about it when it's obvious they have either not yet read the book or not digested it enough to form a proper opinion. For the record, I have not read the book yet so I can't yet form my own unbiased opinion but I find it hard to believe that it is not 'playable in it's current form' (to quote one poster).
When I am learning a new game system I look for the very basic minimum requirements in order to start playing: Chargen, Task resolution and combat. If I can get to grips with those 3 aspects then everything else is an add-on I can learn and introduce as and when required.
If, once I have the book, I can learn those 3 areas of the rules I will be switching my summer campaign (using CT rules) to T5 rules.
Please folks, many of you have the book by now, let us know what you love about T5.

 

[LordRhys]

MGT comes with basic info about the Major Races.

And when CT first came out most of the Major Races didn't even exist.

I expect more of T5 than an elaborate rehash of the material in LBB's 1-3.

For the most part I'm not disappointed, but there are some things that should have been done better and other things that should have been included instead of an entirely unnecessary (and expensive) Starship Recognition Guide that could have come out in a Starship Supplement.

 

[Dracous]

For the price being asked for the book (I am not part of the kickstarter, I may be an actual customer), I would not expect to be reading some of the things I heave been reading.

If there was an expectation that I would not only purchase, but recommend to my players to purchase as well, at the price being asked, it is sounding like the quality is not there.

I get the impression that this book may be more of a GM resource book, and not particularly player friendly.

Also get the impression that after laying down over $100 dollars for the book, I will still need to purchase separate equipment lists, starship rules (larger ships), a players guide (which I will expect will duplicate many of the rules I had previously paid for), and other stuff I am yet to read about.

I already have 5 other versions of traveller that includes all that.

With a 15 year development cycle, long playtest, and a lot of money thrown at the project by the kickstarter (over $200, 000), well, I expected better.

 

[Murdoc]

If you keep focusing on the negative, then I can see how you would feel that way. But those 656 pages are not all filled with pics of Vicky the Dancing Vargr, there's plenty of good stuff in there too. I'll agree that mistakes were made, and some stuff I'd like to see was missing, but you have to take the package as whole, and not let a few problems be deal breakers. No RPG is perfect.

 

[Baltech Budapest]

Thanks Murdoc and also thanks BytePro.
It's good to hear the positives for a change

 

[Murdoc]

Got a whole thread going about it now.

 

[Dracous]

I will keep an open mind. Promise. Just remember that all I have to go on are reviews, and with a purchase this large I am not going to ignore those reviews and take a risk.

Right now, I am reading very strong hints there is going to be a second edition. If that is the case, I may wait for that one.

 

[Murdoc]

Fair enough, but with how long we waited for this edition, that may be some time. The CD-ROM is cheaper and would give the best information on how you like it. I have my complaints about T5 too, I'm just trying to balance out all the negative around lately that seems to be coloring people's opinions into thinking T5 is just crap, which it's not. At worst, it's a mixed bag, YMMV; at best, it's got its quirks like any RPG.

 

[Baltech Budapest]

I will keep an open mind. Promise. Just remember that all I have to go on are reviews, and with a purchase this large I am not going to ignore those reviews and take a risk.

Right now, I am reading very strong hints there is going to be a second edition. If that is the case, I may wait for that one.

I ordered my copy before any reviews starting appearing. As I don't have possession of the book yet I can't comment but I will say that for some reason people take more notice of the negative views and seem to overlook the positive ones.

BytePro has started this thread:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=29774

Hopefully the positive views will sell you on T5