MGT Only: Gambling checks?

[Spinward Scout]

Do these sound right to you Referees?

I feel like I'm missing something, too. What other Gambling checks are there?

Face-to-Face
It's an opposed Gambling check with Deception and specific Skill as additional modifiers.
Poker, Chess, Rap Battle.

Picking a winning Competitor
Gambling check against a set Difficulty.
Modified by number of Competitors and Skill of Competitors.
Boxing, Horse racing, Psionic Telekinetic wrestling, etc...

Picking a winning Number
Gambling check against a set Difficulty.
Modified by number of outcomes.
Bingo, PowerBall Lottery

 

[Enoki]

That assumes someone isn't trying to game the system or cheat outright...

Forging betting slips, hacking the game's computer system, producing fake merch like chips or other tokens that can be converted to cash, using marked cards, loaded dice, or the like, fixing the game, using sleight of hand, or any of a number of other variants. Opens up a whole another level of skills that come into play.

For example, what if the player were running say a Three Card Montie game on the street? While this would be face to face, it's more than gambling skill involved. The player to have an advantage needs to know how to do sleight of hand (dex?) and how to distract the mark using a shill and their own interpersonal skills. That is, they distract the mark while manipulating the cards to fix the game and take the mark's money.

It's not so much a gambling skill as it is one in deception and treachery. From the mark's perspective it is gambling but not recognizing that the game is fixed and they will lose.

 

[Commander Truestar]

@Enoki I agree with your post 100%, where Skulldugery is involved.
Under those points, the skill rolled against is not Gambling, but other skills used in faking or breaking the game.

Where the question is pure gambling, and that skill is tested, the question is how deep a given GM wants to get into the weeds
For example, what does Gambling cover where a table full of poker players are concerned?

Does one need to consider a character's perception and awareness looking for skills, or do you just set difficulties for each player given their skill history and other factors?
Does one change the difficulty of each hand because a given number of cards have been used where the deck is not shuffled after every hand?

IMTU, and where the check is directly up to "Gambling", I simply assign a difficulty for each "period of time" spent in a given game of chance.
"If" there is skullduggery at hand, I also make a hidden roll on those checks (Perception, etc...) and use that to modify the outcome as proper.

 

[Condottiere]

Considering how horse racing works, streetwise.

 

[Commander Truestar]

Considering how horse racing works, streetwise.

I'm curious why you see that as the correct skill?
Are you considering wandering the stables and talking to the jockeys?

 

[Enoki]

@Enoki I agree with your post 100%, where Skulldugery is involved.
Under those points, the skill rolled against is not Gambling, but other skills used in faking or breaking the game.

Where the question is pure gambling, and that skill is tested, the question is how deep a given GM wants to get into the weeds
For example, what does Gambling cover where a table full of poker players are concerned?

Does one need to consider a character's perception and awareness looking for skills, or do you just set difficulties for each player given their skill history and other factors?
Does one change the difficulty of each hand because a given number of cards have been used where the deck is not shuffled after every hand?

IMTU, and where the check is directly up to "Gambling", I simply assign a difficulty for each "period of time" spent in a given game of chance.
"If" there is skullduggery at hand, I also make a hidden roll on those checks (Perception, etc...) and use that to modify the outcome as proper.

I get that. Different skills involved for each type of game. Card counting in a blackjack game versus knowing the odds and watching the rolls to place bets each time in craps. Or, knowing how to 'game' a video poker machine to win more often. In horse racing, knowing the horses and jockeys is the skill. "Gambling" as a skill is too broad probably. Intelligence would play a role in how well you can 'know' the game and find ways to make winning more likely.

To play poker versus blackjack requires different skills. In poker you have to read the room, the other players, as well as know the odds and read the cards that are out and visible. Your position in the rotation is important too. Blackjack at a casino is largely a mechanical skill with repetitive play. The rules are fixed, and you need only count cards to gain a big advantage. Two different skill sets.

 

[Condottiere]

I'm curious why you see that as the correct skill?
Are you considering wandering the stables and talking to the jockeys?

You get a tip from an acquaintance at a pub.

You then place a bet with an unlicenced bookie.

 

[kilemall]

I’m of the broad skill school of thought so the gambling skill has access to all the psychological trickery in addition to mechanics of chance.

Rigging the digital jackpot would be electronics, fixing the roulette wheel would be mechanical, and administering the speed up drug to the poni you bet on would be vetmedicine and stealth.

 

[bookwyrm]

Do these sound right to you Referees?

I feel like I'm missing something, too. What other Gambling checks are there?

Face-to-Face
It's an opposed Gambling check with Deception and specific Skill as additional modifiers.
Poker, Chess, Rap Battle.

Picking a winning Competitor
Gambling check against a set Difficulty.
Modified by number of Competitors and Skill of Competitors.
Boxing, Horse racing, Psionic Telekinetic wrestling, etc...

Picking a winning Number
Gambling check against a set Difficulty.
Modified by number of outcomes.
Bingo, PowerBall Lottery

My thoughts.

Gambling with Games of Chance is all about knowing the odds, the greater the odds the higher the DC. A professional gambler or someone with a 'knack' for gambling might have a better chance of winning against amateurs. (The Gambler by Kenny Rogers for example)

Gambling with Betting is about making a choice between B happening/not happening instead of A. Having Knowledge of or doing Research on what is being betted on can improve odds of winning. (The Winner by David Baldacci for example)

Cheating is another way to win. In games of chance, unless the cheating is obvious or someone becomes suspicious, the cheater is usually gets away with the 'pot'. With betting, having the knowledge or skill to 'fix' things in your favor might be necessary, or hire a person or have an accomplice with the necessary skills/knowledge to do the 'fixing'.

 

[Enoki]

On cheating, I'd say gambling skill combined with other skills that are appropriate would be the way to handle that. For example, gambling combined with carousing where the cheat is talking it up and buys the mark a cheap drink or five before fleecing him.

 

[Daidoji Dave]

For any version of Mongoose or Cepheus:
Poker: Gambler + Int. Possibly a preceding task chain from Deception + Soc if you want to drill down.
Dice: Gambler + Dex. Optional task chain from Stealth + Dex if you really want to risk getting your legs broken.
Darts: Gambler + Dex (+Athletics - Dex), and probably a preceding task chain from Carouse + End.
Chess: Gambler + Edu (assuming speed play and betting here).
Mah Jong: Gambler + Int and + Luck (if used), or else roll 1d6, 1-3 is +1 to 3, 4-6 is -1 to 3.
Betting on horses: Gambler no stat, preceding task chain from Streetwise + or minus Soc. (Normies draw the short straw.)
Any kind of high dollar lottery: you're not going to win with a 2d6 roll. Unless you outright rig the game, but then you're into a full session or multi-session heist adventure more than just a skill check.

A side note, any version of Mongoose benefits from using the Task Chain table from the 2022 version of the core rulebook. It's the one that's most worth taking your chances on. Still some chance of a negative, but you're not punished for trying quite as much.

[Player wants to cheat for a plus.]

I assumed you were cheating all along. Just a normal level of card counting, dice control, or whatever else can be assumed for higher skill ranks rather than separated out.

But more elaborate schemes I would usually represent as a task chain.

What actually do you get for playing and winning?

Classic and Mongoose both have answers to this for narrow circumstances, but I found them a little unsatisfying, and potentially too easy to game if you allow multiple favorable bets rather than taking them as for a session of play.

What I've noodled around with is: Set an ante, or a stakes number, for an evening or session of play. So it'll come down to one roll - if you do have an elaborate ploy to make, so much the better, but figure it out and declare it. You may win or lose more than the stakes, so this should be a fraction of your purse! Roll opposed Gambling checks, loser pays the winner the difference times the stakes. A weak point is deciding what to do with multiple notable players. You could do winner take all, but some games might benefit from pairing highest to lowest, next highest to next lowest, etc. With an odd player maybe compare their roll to the average, and take a share of winnings if higher or pay out if lower... (I feel I could run it faster than I can describe it.)