Fuel Depots for the Technologically challenged

[ozbonius_2000]

Greetings! I have been out of the Traveller loop for a while (Years) and when I played back in the day, we didn't concern ourselves with such trivialities as fuel for starships (Naive, I know). I have since decided to correct the error of my ways, and would like to know a few things...

1. Can someone give me a fairly detailed description of a typical starport fuel depot? Does the refining process take place here, or is the fuel brought in already refined... Or do both of these apply depending on the Starport.

2. Can someone give me a fairly detailed description of a 'Gravity Well'. I've seen this term floating around (if you'll pardon the pun...), but only have a light (Man I can't quit...), idea of what it is...

Any information you have regarding these two topics would be greatly appreciated...

 

[ozbonius_2000]

Greetings! I have been out of the Traveller loop for a while (Years) and when I played back in the day, we didn't concern ourselves with such trivialities as fuel for starships (Naive, I know). I have since decided to correct the error of my ways, and would like to know a few things...

1. Can someone give me a fairly detailed description of a typical starport fuel depot? Does the refining process take place here, or is the fuel brought in already refined... Or do both of these apply depending on the Starport.

2. Can someone give me a fairly detailed description of a 'Gravity Well'. I've seen this term floating around (if you'll pardon the pun...), but only have a light (Man I can't quit...), idea of what it is...

Any information you have regarding these two topics would be greatly appreciated...

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Can't help you on the first one, but a 'gravity well' is simply the gravitational field around a massive object like a planet or a star. If you're noticeably affected by the object's gravity (e.g. flightpath is deflected, things slowly fall in the direction of the planet, etc) then you're said to be in its gravity well.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Can't help you on the first one, but a 'gravity well' is simply the gravitational field around a massive object like a planet or a star. If you're noticeably affected by the object's gravity (e.g. flightpath is deflected, things slowly fall in the direction of the planet, etc) then you're said to be in its gravity well.

 

[Takei]

The main things to consider when looking at fuel depots are what's the local starport like and where does the raw fuel come from?

The bigger and busier the starport, the more likely someone is to invest in storage and refining facilities. They are more likely (IMO) to be selling refined fuel, and there may even be restrictions of private fuel skimming. The local government doesn't want to have sunk all that money into a skimming/refining/storage operation just to have Capt. Jamesson of the Flying Rustbucket skim it for free!

Where the raw fuel comes from is an important factor. The local gas giant would probably have set flight lanes for skimming (where allowed), all the way up to an orbital depot that collects/refines/stores and sells the fuel.

If there's no gas giant, then cracking water is the way to go. This means getting it from bodies of liquid water or ice. Ocean skimming would probably have a designated area, even if this is just a case of "Fly that way for an hour and then you can set down." Some places may just have a hose into the local lake. This again goes all the way up to the collecting/cracking/storage operations more likely with larger starports.

I could bable on longer but I think I'll leave it there for now

 

[Takei]

The main things to consider when looking at fuel depots are what's the local starport like and where does the raw fuel come from?

The bigger and busier the starport, the more likely someone is to invest in storage and refining facilities. They are more likely (IMO) to be selling refined fuel, and there may even be restrictions of private fuel skimming. The local government doesn't want to have sunk all that money into a skimming/refining/storage operation just to have Capt. Jamesson of the Flying Rustbucket skim it for free!

Where the raw fuel comes from is an important factor. The local gas giant would probably have set flight lanes for skimming (where allowed), all the way up to an orbital depot that collects/refines/stores and sells the fuel.

If there's no gas giant, then cracking water is the way to go. This means getting it from bodies of liquid water or ice. Ocean skimming would probably have a designated area, even if this is just a case of "Fly that way for an hour and then you can set down." Some places may just have a hose into the local lake. This again goes all the way up to the collecting/cracking/storage operations more likely with larger starports.

I could bable on longer but I think I'll leave it there for now

 

[mike wightman]

Picture if you will a brand new mattress. Place a bowling ball in the middle. The dimple created (the well) is steepest next to the ball. As you move away from the ball the dimple (well) becomes less steep until the mattress is flat.
Gravity can be pictured the same way.
Spacetime is the mattress, a star or planet (or even an ant) is the bowling ball and the dimple is the gravity field. The strength of the field depends upon distance, the closer you are the steeper the well and the stronger the gravity, the further away you are the well's sides are less steep and the weaker the gravity.
For a fuller explanation try these two sites: http://isaac.exploratorium.edu/~pauld/activities/astronomy/gravitywell or http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/
Hope this helps.

 

[mike wightman]

Picture if you will a brand new mattress. Place a bowling ball in the middle. The dimple created (the well) is steepest next to the ball. As you move away from the ball the dimple (well) becomes less steep until the mattress is flat.
Gravity can be pictured the same way.
Spacetime is the mattress, a star or planet (or even an ant) is the bowling ball and the dimple is the gravity field. The strength of the field depends upon distance, the closer you are the steeper the well and the stronger the gravity, the further away you are the well's sides are less steep and the weaker the gravity.
For a fuller explanation try these two sites: http://isaac.exploratorium.edu/~pauld/activities/astronomy/gravitywell or http://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/orbits/
Hope this helps.

 

[Ran Targas]

The rules I've put into place concerning the use of raw and refined fuels has mostly to do with the ship's purpose or mission.

Trading vessels that seldom leave the normal space lanes (where fuel is plentiful) would logically remove the skimming equipment in favor of greater cargo capacity and reduced maintenance costs. This, of course, limits them to refined fuel. IMTU, traders are not built with skimming equipment, it is an after-market alteration or special request. This also makes skimming shuttles a commodity.

Scouts and military vessels that operate away from the support of tankers (i.e. escorts) would have skimming and refining equipment onboard. My scouts have engines designed to handle raw fuel (no refining necessary), sort of the fusion version of a diesel.

Large military vessels, that typically operate in a battlegroup, would rely on tankers for support, so no need for refining equipment. I'm not sure a commodore would risk diving his capitol ships into a gas giant's gravity well anyway; it's like sailing your battleship into the shallows.

Several of the worlds IMTU have fuel skimmers on station at one of the gas giants. You pull your starship into orbit, they dive, and deliver a load of refined fuel to your ship. These chaps are good for color too, normally missing a few screws and teeth, and seldom have both eyes point the same direction! Who else would dive their puny shuttle into the churning atmosphere of a gas giant, with wind shear exceeding 1000kph delta V.

 

[Ran Targas]

The rules I've put into place concerning the use of raw and refined fuels has mostly to do with the ship's purpose or mission.

Trading vessels that seldom leave the normal space lanes (where fuel is plentiful) would logically remove the skimming equipment in favor of greater cargo capacity and reduced maintenance costs. This, of course, limits them to refined fuel. IMTU, traders are not built with skimming equipment, it is an after-market alteration or special request. This also makes skimming shuttles a commodity.

Scouts and military vessels that operate away from the support of tankers (i.e. escorts) would have skimming and refining equipment onboard. My scouts have engines designed to handle raw fuel (no refining necessary), sort of the fusion version of a diesel.

Large military vessels, that typically operate in a battlegroup, would rely on tankers for support, so no need for refining equipment. I'm not sure a commodore would risk diving his capitol ships into a gas giant's gravity well anyway; it's like sailing your battleship into the shallows.

Several of the worlds IMTU have fuel skimmers on station at one of the gas giants. You pull your starship into orbit, they dive, and deliver a load of refined fuel to your ship. These chaps are good for color too, normally missing a few screws and teeth, and seldom have both eyes point the same direction! Who else would dive their puny shuttle into the churning atmosphere of a gas giant, with wind shear exceeding 1000kph delta V.

 

[savage]

IMTU: It seems to me that manual skimming would become a thing of the past by TL15. A skimmer could be attached to a tether and dragged along the top of the atmosphere by the station or refueling ship. Pumping hydrogen into the tanks a couple km above.

IMTU the high population, TL15 worlds with A starports have refueling stations at the main gas giant and J2-3 jump gates to ease traffic congestion.

Fuel could also be pumped up an orbital elevator system if the world is advanced enough.

Savage

 

[savage]

IMTU: It seems to me that manual skimming would become a thing of the past by TL15. A skimmer could be attached to a tether and dragged along the top of the atmosphere by the station or refueling ship. Pumping hydrogen into the tanks a couple km above.

IMTU the high population, TL15 worlds with A starports have refueling stations at the main gas giant and J2-3 jump gates to ease traffic congestion.

Fuel could also be pumped up an orbital elevator system if the world is advanced enough.

Savage

 

[ozbonius_2000]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for all the replies. I Appreciate all the help. For some reason, I was under the impression that a 'gravity well' was an artifical (man-made) gravitational pull. And your thoughts/advice on Fuel/Refining/Depots is much appreciated. Anyone else have any suggestions/thoughts??

 

[ozbonius_2000]

Hey Folks,

Thanks for all the replies. I Appreciate all the help. For some reason, I was under the impression that a 'gravity well' was an artifical (man-made) gravitational pull. And your thoughts/advice on Fuel/Refining/Depots is much appreciated. Anyone else have any suggestions/thoughts??

 

[Takei]

Originally posted by Ran Targas:
Scouts and military vessels that operate away from the support of tankers (i.e. escorts) would have skimming and refining equipment onboard. My scouts have engines designed to handle raw fuel (no refining necessary), sort of the fusion version of a diesel.

I seem to remember something about this from CT Book 2. IIRC it said that Scout ships (and possibly military vessels as well) can use un-refined fuel with no penalties. Have to check when I get home.

EDIT: Sure enough, "Military and quasi-military starships often use unrefined fuel because it is more available, and because their drives are specially built to use it."
So your players in a Type-S can get away with unrefined fuel where the merchant captain in his Type-A starts to get nervous.

 

[Takei]

Originally posted by Ran Targas:
Scouts and military vessels that operate away from the support of tankers (i.e. escorts) would have skimming and refining equipment onboard. My scouts have engines designed to handle raw fuel (no refining necessary), sort of the fusion version of a diesel.

I seem to remember something about this from CT Book 2. IIRC it said that Scout ships (and possibly military vessels as well) can use un-refined fuel with no penalties. Have to check when I get home.

EDIT: Sure enough, "Military and quasi-military starships often use unrefined fuel because it is more available, and because their drives are specially built to use it."
So your players in a Type-S can get away with unrefined fuel where the merchant captain in his Type-A starts to get nervous.

 

[Whipsnade]

Mr. GreyHawk,

Everyone else has pretty much covered all the bases. Fuel depots and other fuelling arrangements will vary from system to system. The components used (or lacking) will depend gratly on the system's UWP (especially port type, local population, and local tech level IMHO)and the systems physical layout.

The fuel 'depot' in a backwater, lo-pop, lo-tech system with a port rating E may be little more than a sign pointing to the nearest lake, sea, or ocean. The fuel 'depot' in a vacumn, hi-pop, hi-tech system with a port rating of A may be a wide range a facilities scattered across the breadth of the system.

Sol/Earth is a good example. The port at Earth may rely on her oceans as a raw fuel supply, refining whatever is needed at the highports and downports from them. Enviromental restrcitions may limit any use of the oceans and 'ice-teroids' are towed in from the Belt instead. Tankers may even ply space between Earth and the gas giants; if Earth and Jupiter are alinged correctly the trip is 'only' around ~4.2 AU.

Fuel depots supplying facilities in Sol's Belt may come from Jupiter or 'ice-teroids'. Fuel depots supplying facilities among the gas gaint moons would come from the giants themselves.

In my Grote Landgrab, Grote is a gas gaint moon whose major fuel needs are supplied by a refinery and mass driver facility on another, inner moon. The mass driver flings fuel 'blimps' into skimming orbits through the gas giant, Godzilla*. These blimps skim fuel during their passes through 'Zilla's upper atmosphere and light off thrusters to place them selves in a rendezvous orbit with the refinery.

Depots also may be restricted in some manner, only open to corporate vessels and the like.

In the end, the only thing that matters is YTU.


Sincerely,
Larsen

* - Godzilla because the giant is predominately green with a one huge red spot.

 

[Whipsnade]

Mr. GreyHawk,

Everyone else has pretty much covered all the bases. Fuel depots and other fuelling arrangements will vary from system to system. The components used (or lacking) will depend gratly on the system's UWP (especially port type, local population, and local tech level IMHO)and the systems physical layout.

The fuel 'depot' in a backwater, lo-pop, lo-tech system with a port rating E may be little more than a sign pointing to the nearest lake, sea, or ocean. The fuel 'depot' in a vacumn, hi-pop, hi-tech system with a port rating of A may be a wide range a facilities scattered across the breadth of the system.

Sol/Earth is a good example. The port at Earth may rely on her oceans as a raw fuel supply, refining whatever is needed at the highports and downports from them. Enviromental restrcitions may limit any use of the oceans and 'ice-teroids' are towed in from the Belt instead. Tankers may even ply space between Earth and the gas giants; if Earth and Jupiter are alinged correctly the trip is 'only' around ~4.2 AU.

Fuel depots supplying facilities in Sol's Belt may come from Jupiter or 'ice-teroids'. Fuel depots supplying facilities among the gas gaint moons would come from the giants themselves.

In my Grote Landgrab, Grote is a gas gaint moon whose major fuel needs are supplied by a refinery and mass driver facility on another, inner moon. The mass driver flings fuel 'blimps' into skimming orbits through the gas giant, Godzilla*. These blimps skim fuel during their passes through 'Zilla's upper atmosphere and light off thrusters to place them selves in a rendezvous orbit with the refinery.

Depots also may be restricted in some manner, only open to corporate vessels and the like.

In the end, the only thing that matters is YTU.


Sincerely,
Larsen

* - Godzilla because the giant is predominately green with a one huge red spot.