Foundation and Traveller

[gloriousbattle]

There is little doubt that Asimov's Foundation series and related stories had a big impact on the Traveller universe. Psionics, psychohistory and, of course, the big but rather creaky empire are all present.

Curious if anyone ever did anything with the First or Second Foundations in a Traveller universe, whether articles or homebrew. Also, many of the characters are very interesting, such as General Bel Riose, Emperor Cleon II, Hari Seldon, and, of course, the Mule.

 

[pmbnss]

Quasi-Foundation Universe

While most of our Traveller games were one-off games in a non-specific universe, one of the enduring settings we developed was very similar to the Foundation universe.

In ours, a 5,000 year old Galactic Empire ruled by psychohistorical principles. The Empire and its periphery of flash-in-the-pan Barbarian kingdoms created a cycle of rise and fall in the short term, and general stasis in the long term, explaining the reason that technology hadn't really improved over that 5,000 years. Innovation and novelty certainly played a part - lasers would become the "in" technology for a while, then nukes would appear as the trump to lasers for a century or so, then meson weapons, then back to lasers.

The barbarians would rage against the Empire every generation or so giving Noble youth opportunities for ambition and glory, and just as importantly - "culling the herd" so to speak. THe Empire woudl reel at first, and then push back and ultimately defeat the barbarians, but not so totally as to absorb them. Indeed, the Barbarians provided an outlet for social unrest that kept the Empire stable. Some Barbarians were social experiments in communism, fascism, anarchy, and even democracy(!). Others promoted machines or psionics, and other "weird" things that would destabilize the Empire if encouraged within it.

Psionics played an important role. Overt telepaths were generally suppressed by the Empire as a danger to social fabric. However, psionics were necessary for Jumpspace navigation (any Nav skill above 1 presumed Psionic capability). Traveller psionic abilities were present in large numbers only in the zhodani-like Auroran Combine, but of course every Intelligence Service had their own Special Talents.

Worlds largely governed their own internal politics, but Nobles managed the Imperial Bureaucracies and interplanetary corporations ala Pocket Empires'/Milieau 0, and of course family/corporate politics being what they are, the line between planetary sovereignty and Interplanetary jurisdiction would be extremely gray.

So similar to the Foundation setting - particularly on the periphery.

 

[kafka47]

My dream would be the Foundation movie that is in the works will have Mongoose design a specific sourcebook for the Foundation/Robots novels. I realize that this a pipe dream because of the complicated licencing involved but it remains a dream/wish.

Notwithstanding, as a huge Asimov fan, almost all his works have influenced MTU. There is a Foundation of psychohistorians. Stephon does not know about their work (as he has own on the payroll). Is there a charismatic leader like Seldon? Maybe. Is their a Mule in 1248's future? Can't say. Are their sentient robots...well not those constructed by the Imperium...so maybe it is the 600,000 Year Plan...

 

[jawillroy]

There's a foundation of Foundation's Empire in my empire. It manifests itself mostly the absence of aliens IMTU, but that's my laziness, too, and the fact that I've been making a point of adhering to LBBs 1-3, and haven't been doing anything with the OTU.

 

[gloriousbattle]

There's a foundation of Foundation's Empire in my empire. It manifests itself mostly the absence of aliens IMTU, but that's my laziness, too, and the fact that I've been making a point of adhering to LBBs 1-3, and haven't been doing anything with the OTU.

I can respect that, but one of the things I really didn't care for about LBBs was the no aliens thing.

 

[BlackBat242]

Don't you mean "the lack of aliens"?

I don't remember anything saying you couldn't have intelligent, technologically-advanced aliens... or that they couldn't be PCs.

If there is, could you point it out to me?



The whole basis of LBB 1-3 Traveller was as a basic framework for the referee & players to expand on... not as an all-inclusive only what is written is allowed straight-jacket.


If the issue is that you needed to have them pre-generated for you... well I can't help you at all in that case.

 

[jawillroy]

Oh, there was nothing at all that said you *couldn't* have aliens - but there wasn't much of a structure in the first three books that suggested either way. If they were important for you, you could kluge them together. Happened alla time.

 

[gloriousbattle]

Don't you mean "the lack of aliens"?

I don't remember anything saying you couldn't have intelligent, technologically-advanced aliens... or that they couldn't be PCs.

If there is, could you point it out to me?

Oh, come on man. You want correct grammar on the internet?

If the issue is that you needed to have them pre-generated for you... well I can't help you at all in that case.

I didn't exactly NEED it, much like you didn't NEED the Monster Manual to play D&D, but it sure helped.

In fact, the Spacefarer's Guide series was the best "Monster Manual for Traveller" that I ever found, and I thought it was pretty good. There were certainly other published Traveller aliens if you looked for them.

 

[kafka47]

I thought that it was established in the mad rush to the stars..humanity with its massive Terraforming (ie Terra forming) machines wiped out indigenous lifeforms across the galaxy and it was this genocide that galaxia aimed to prevent...as humanity was in danger of being coming extinct itself through its own stagnation.

This I think reflects Asimov's own preoccupations...if humanity does not move to the stars in an ecological fashion then the mistakes committed here on Earth will be repeated in the stars. He also found the genocides committed in progress' name quite troubling. Therefore, sought to address these things in his Science Fiction.

 

[coliver988]

In one of the Robot series it was explained that the robots, with the 3 laws, managed to wipe out all non-humans (not violently - I think it was more of a in the far, far future, they develop time travel and stop aliens before they start sort of thing). An unintended consequence of safety design.

At least I vaguely recall something to that effect, and as the robot series was at least parallel to the Foundation, I'll stick with that potential explanation.

Of course, I could be entirely misremembering.

 

[RandyB]

That would be a manifestation of the Zeroth Law of Robotics, self-developed by the robots themselves, which stated "A robot may not harm humanity or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm" and which trumped the First Law.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

... followed by the "Minus Oneth" law, which states, "A robot may not harm sentience or, through inaction, allow sentience to come to harm", which trumps laws 0 through 4

 

[RandyB]

... followed by the "Minus Oneth" law, which states, "A robot may not harm sentience or, through inaction, allow sentience to come to harm", which trumps laws 0 through 4

I read about that one second-hand, but I never found out what stor(y|ies) it appeared in.

And if what was said earlier about the robots time traveling backwards to prevent the rise of non-human sentience in the galaxy, then that law wasn't enumerated at the point that they took such action.

 

[HiverLord]

I'm not sure about this, but I think I read once that the robots had somehow searched the alternate dimensions (or some such) until they found one that had no sentient life (or potentially sentient life) in it, then somehow moved humanity into it.

Though I may be WAY off base here... not sure anymore, as it was a long time ago I read the robot novels.

 

[gloriousbattle]

I'm not sure about this, but I think I read once that the robots had somehow searched the alternate dimensions (or some such) until they found one that had no sentient life (or potentially sentient life) in it, then somehow moved humanity into it.

Though I may be WAY off base here... not sure anymore, as it was a long time ago I read the robot novels.

I can confirm reading that too, though, like you, I don't remember where.

 

[HiverLord]

I can confirm reading that too, though, like you, I don't remember where.

Thanks. Nice to know I haven't totally lost it yet. Old-agey-ness lurks, but I try to fight it off! :rofl:

 

[Gray Lensman]

Thanks. Nice to know I haven't totally lost it yet. Old-agey-ness lurks, but I try to fight it off! :rofl:

No, no, no.... first it is sometimers, then allatimers, then... uh what was I talking about?

 

[kafka47]

Sounds like a spin-off story...Friends of Foundation and countless imitators of Asimov (not that the Grand Master was all that original) is where it could be...

However, I do recall, that Robots and Empire talk about the ethnic cleansing of Terra-forming robots. But, time travel...Asimov did not really believe in it...so I can't see him, save, in jest trying to reverse Time's Arrow.

If there would be a Foundation RPG or at least a MgT supplement, what should be part of this Foundation Extended Universe? I am inclined to say all of it. But, how to deal with all the numerous contradictions - I would say where an spin-off writer contradicts something Asimov says...then Asimov is right...this way we don't get into all sorts of petty fights over IP. We will still have a fight from different authors who might want to preserve their IP but I think they would recognize that the RPG would formally acknowledge their work might actually be enough, as they are still appropriating from the same pool and as a result act as a springboard for further development.

Every year, I try to springboard, these ideas at Ad Astra but I think most writers view RPGs as pleasurable indulgences (in the best case) and distractions (in the worst). Clearly, Traveller has to grow, if it is going to play the role that D&D did for fantasy literature.

 

[jatay3]

Sounds like a spin-off story...Friends of Foundation and countless imitators of Asimov (not that the Grand Master was all that original) is where it could be...

However, I do recall, that Robots and Empire talk about the ethnic cleansing of Terra-forming robots. But, time travel...Asimov did not really believe in it...so I can't see him, save, in jest trying to reverse Time's Arrow.

If there would be a Foundation RPG or at least a MgT supplement, what should be part of this Foundation Extended Universe? I am inclined to say all of it. But, how to deal with all the numerous contradictions - I would say where an spin-off writer contradicts something Asimov says...then Asimov is right...this way we don't get into all sorts of petty fights over IP. We will still have a fight from different authors who might want to preserve their IP but I think they would recognize that the RPG would formally acknowledge their work might actually be enough, as they are still appropriating from the same pool and as a result act as a springboard for further development.

Every year, I try to springboard, these ideas at Ad Astra but I think most writers view RPGs as pleasurable indulgences (in the best case) and distractions (in the worst). Clearly, Traveller has to grow, if it is going to play the role that D&D did for fantasy literature.

How would it grow?

 

[kafka47]

I think, if more artists (broadly speaking) are exposed to Traveller tropes...we are bound to see more Traveller-like settings...much as Star Wars, Star Trek have influenced the collective imagination why should Traveller not do the same?