F**ckin' Big Honky Tonky Starships

[kafka47]

How often in your campaigns do we the really large Capital ships appear, unless you happen to be running a pseudo-wargame (TCS or FFW) or play MegaTraveller [after Marc's raison d'etre for creating MT was to pull out the Capital Ships and have large battles]...

As Traveller seems to dominated by the Small Ships, darting here and there. It seems like the Capital Ships ought to see more service at least for the Empire to show the flag on the frontier. Will T20 see a Fighting Ships III supplement, to that end... as he mutters softly... please, please!

 

[Rodina]

I try to use an analogy to the US Navy, circa 1992 - overgunned for the world situation (not that I'm against being overgunned, however!) - but not always interested in getting involved. The US Navy has its own agenda (Persian Gulf gets a lot of attention as do the Straights of Taiwan or the Gulf of Sidra (Libya)). In those places, the US Navy will engage with overwhelming force very small incursions of its agenda.

Yet in a lot of other places, the Navy probably won't lift a finger (with its large ships). You'll find a lot of big capital ships in and around San Diego, but it's the USCG that deals with drug smugglers; the US Navy goes through the straights of Malacca (between Indonesia and Malaysia) often and just because there is actual piracy there these days, the US Navy might send a helicopter to assist, but it doesn't turn an aircraft carrier around to deal with the situation.

So while capital ships are fairly common IMTU, I've had them sail right past my PCs, even though they were under attack, because, well, that's not what capital ships do...

 

[StrikerFan]

Originally posted by kafka47:
How often in your campaigns do we the really large Capital ships appear, unless you happen to be running a pseudo-wargame (TCS or FFW) or play MegaTraveller [after Marc's raison d'etre for creating MT was to pull out the Capital Ships and have large battles]...

As Traveller seems to dominated by the Small Ships, darting here and there. It seems like the Capital Ships ought to see more service at least for the Empire to show the flag on the frontier. Will T20 see a Fighting Ships III supplement, to that end... as he mutters softly... please, please!

IMTU, if you're near a major fleet base, like Rhylanor or Trin in the Spinward Marches, they're a reasonably common sight, either moving about the system or detected in the distance at the fleet base. The farther you get from the major bases, the less likely you are to see the big ships, and the likelihood of seeing a cruiser squadron goes down too (though not as fast). A CruRon might be showing the flag through the Sector, but that's scheduled and anyone who wants to know where they're going to be can find out (and be there or avoid there if they like).

IMTU, the IN's a war fleet, it's not tasked with customs patrol or commerce protection in general. If a pirate happens to be stupid enough to engage in piracy in the same system as an IN squadron, the pirates may well be horrified to see a bunch of big ships bearing down on them at 6G, but the IN isn't spread out across all the Imperial systems to deal with the threat of piracy, because they'd be too scattered to deal with a wartime threat.

StrikerFan

 

[Ben W Bell]

Why what would you like to see in a Fighting Ships III or equivalent?

 

[kafka47]

My big beef with the Traveller universe, is that it is not terribly well illustrated. (For the record, I did like Chris Foss' work even though it was not very Milieu 0) Most of the early GDW stuff looks like it was thought about quickly and then slapped together. The Keiths work and some of DGP looks like Traveller is a very sterile universe. Now compare that with the work of Jessie DeGraff or the work now going into Transhuman Space, he takes those same concepts and transports them to the next level.

I really appreciate that we going to see some different ship designs in T20 but I would really like to see some of the big Ships, should T20 ever drift Rimward. Plus, I would like to see some of the hardware that the IN has arrayed to keep the K'kree at bay. Because, surely if size matters the K'kree Capital starships would be awfully impressive sight. Kindly ID4 in the dust...

Child: Look Mum! What's that cloud blocking the Suns...

Mum:

{translation: Holy Jumping Cleon's Throne! That's no cloud, that is a K'kree Scout craft..

 

[Ben W Bell]

Well I've always enjoyed reading about the large ships in Traveller (even though they've been incredibly badly supported, and the Navy in general in previous supplements.)
Even though not every campaign will have them in it they are a part of the universe. After all do we come across major warships in our everyday life? Not unless you serve with them or live near a base.

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by BenBell:

Even though not every campaign will have them in it they are a part of the universe. After all do we come across major warships in our everyday life? Not unless you serve with them or live near a base.

Well...that depends upon you landlubber or I guess in Traveller language, Dirt Lover.

When I was in St. Petersburg, I just had to look at the Kronstadt base for historical reasons. So...I found a break in the fence and went straight in. A couple of sailors gave me a looking once or twice but when I said I was from Canada they wanted to give a tour. I guess the FSB was holiday that day. But, that was also when Yeltsin was in power...

 

[Simon Jester]

Originally posted by BenBell:
Why what would you like to see in a Fighting Ships III or equivalent?

I'd like more coverage of all the auxiliary and non-combat craft, like the following:

1. Salvage and repair ships that recover damaged or disabled warships. Tugs, tenders and mobile docks would be covered by this;

2. Assault ships, both vehicular and troop ships. The stuff the Imperial Marines get to call home for most of their careers;

3. Stores and Hospital ships. The ships that allow the Fleet to stay on the frontlines despite combat expenditures (both munitions and men);

4. Orbital fortresses. Does the Imperium even have non-mobile spaceborne weapons platforms? Do the K'Kree or any other alien race?

5. Details (primarily roleplaying-oriented rather than stats) regarding the weapon systems installed in the various warships. Okay, the destroyer has a Particle Accelerator bay and missile tubes. Which manufacturer has the most accurate PA system? The most reliable? The hardest to repair? What are the details about the missiles? Can the missiles' warheads be changed for new warheads as the need warrants, or do you need an entirely new missile? Etc., etc., etc.

6. Logical and reasonable designs and illustrations for whatever type of ship presented. I remember the Fleet Carrier from MT's FSOTSL as looking particularly idiotic.

These are just my thoughts. Take them or leave them.

Simon Jester

 

[RabidVargr]

Originally posted by Rodina:
You'll find a lot of big capital ships in and around San Diego, but it's the USCG that deals with drug smugglers; the US Navy goes through the straights of Malacca (between Indonesia and Malaysia) often and just because there is actual piracy there these days, the US Navy might send a helicopter to assist, but it doesn't turn an aircraft carrier around to deal with the situation.

Nope, not an aircraft carrier, but that carrier will sure as anything launch a pair of strike craft (F/A-18E) to deal with the vessel if it doesn't stand down. Then one of our escort craft (DDG/FFG) will be dispatched to board and capture the hostile. If they don't surrender, a few (20-30) 5" shells usually convinces them.

I've been on a FFG dispatched to assist before. Subs on the other hand, will not as they've got no offensive weapons for that. We aren't wasting a several hundred thousand dollar weapon on a 40k boat.

RV

 

[RandyT0001]

When the big starships are around I roll a d6+6 against the Specific Assignment table in HG to find out the reason the fleet (or elements thereof) is here in the same starsystem as the PC's. The entries on the table for Special Duty are changed to patrol or training depending if there is a naval base present.

If the big ships are involved in something more intense than a strike (Imperial intervention by the use of Marines before banned weapons can be used by fanatics [IMTU]) the PC's with non-subsidized ships tend to exit the scene ASAP, usually headed away from the border. Ones with subsidized ships would head to the world which holds the subsidy (and pray that the fleet is not defending in a war but chasing renegade Vargr (or Aslan) warships).

Randy

 

[alexhawman]

the big ships require quite a lot of maintenance, so much so with the big engines, the huge fuel tanks, and all the weapons that moving a fllet takes a long long time, and there better darn well be a reason to have a capital ship where it is. in my campaings unless there is a war currently in progress, the odds of finding a capital ship more than 6 parsecs from a border arn't very high, they are usualy acting as a deterant force

 

[RabidVargr]

also, for every capital ship, there's probably about 3 auxilliary ships at work to keep them under power. I can see a battlegroup moving through a system. "Is jupiter shrinking?"

RV

 

[Rodina]

If the Coasties can't deal with it, sure. But my point is that you don't send your capital ships to deal with small operations in the first instance.

 

[aoehler]

To expand on Simon Jester's comments, what about the concept of merchant marine? or something akin to the airlift that our airlines provide the USGov. Perhaps the Imperial Navy could require the PC's ship to ferry marines. That would provide an interesting time in jump space...

 

[Simon Jester]

Originally posted by AndyO:
To expand on Simon Jester's comments, what about the concept of merchant marine? or something akin to the airlift that our airlines provide the USGov. Perhaps the Imperial Navy could require the PC's ship to ferry marines. That would provide an interesting time in jump space...

The US uses the Naval Service designation (USNS as compared to USS) for those merchant ships that are partially owned by the US government. These ships would be the first called to service in event of declared war, since their capabilities are known and a good number of their crews are composed of reserve Navy officers and ratings. The S-class Scout/Courier ship is the closest to this that I've seen in Traveller Canon, but IMTU I run it where each shipping company has about 15-20% of their ships running under this kind of service as a requirement for licencing and loan-guarantees for the Imperium.

Simon Jester

 

[kafka47]

Thanks for the discussion, but come on. Don't tell me in your Traveller Universe, you have the interstellar equilent of the Coast Guard. What do System Navies do then. IMTU, the Imperial Navy is a very powerful institution, afterall it has made Emperors....

 

[Uncle Bob]

Originally posted by Simon Jester:
... IMTU I run it where each shipping company has about 15-20% of their ships running under this kind of service as a requirement for licencing and loan-guarantees for the Imperium.

Simon Jester

And I see adventure hooks for Navy veterans.

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by Simon Jester:
The US uses the Naval Service designation (USNS as compared to USS) for those merchant ships that are partially owned by the US government. These ships would be the first called to service in event of declared war, since their capabilities are known and a good number of their crews are composed of reserve Navy officers and ratings.

I hate to be a pedant, but that's really not how things work.

USNS (US Naval Ship) is used for ships owned by the gpovernment -- specifically Military Sealift Command -- and operated by civilian merchant mariners. These ships include everything from cargo ships to combat logistics ships to survey ships. Most are in active service on a daily basis for the military in some capacity, though some are laid up when not needed.

The next major group of ships are the Ready Reserve Fleet, again owned by the government -- in this case the Maritime Administration. These are all cargo ships, and are kept in storage until they are needed. Each ship has a certain amount of time required to bring it back into service, anywhere from 5 days to 180 days. They do not operate commercially.

What you're describing is more like the Maritime Security Program (MSP). Under MSP, ships receive modifications to suit them for carrying military cargo. DoD pays for any costs associated with those modifications (and keeping the ships under US registry) and gives them first dibs on peacetime cargo hauling contracts for the military.

 

[Rodina]

I don't have a Coast Guard, that is indeed was local system fleets and SDBs are for. My point is that IMTU, just because there's a big navy base doesn't mean that the Navy will always (or even often) interfere with small ship-to-ship combat.

 

[Uncle Bob]

I wouldn't take that to far.

I presume ships in the Empire are under the same obligation to render assistance they are on the sea today. That means the captain of a 100,000 ton battleship who ignores an SOS from a 200 ton free trader under attack from pirates is subject to civil prosecution as well as court martial.