Events in Gateway
- Thread starter kafka47
- Start date
trader jim
SOC-14 1K
oooooooo darn!!! NOT AGAIN -JUST CANT TRUST THOSE PESKY KREE!!
I asked Hunter about this a few months back. The original thread should still be on here somewhere, but essentially his response was that QLI will not be deliberately invalidating anything from Lords of Thunder but because of the slightly odd situation (the entire sector embroiled in a web of complex plot-strands all on schedule to come to a simultaneous head 100 years AFTER their product line) their primary emphasis is going to be on the other 3 sectors, with Gateway remaining somewhat in the background.
From this I surmise that the Gateway Quadrant book will have maps and UWPs and capsule descriptions of the major worlds and polities in the sector (mostly duplicating the background portions of LoT), but that we won't be seeing much else on this sector in way of 'plot' development or Grand Adventures. Whether they'll explicitly state that they're trying not to invalidate/spoil prior canon or just leave the newbies hanging I have no idea.
Also worth keeping in mind is that since FFE owns the copyright, it's not entirely inconceivable that we may yet see Lords of Thunder resurrected in some form or another (totally unsubstantiated speculation/rumor-mongering on my behalf, but hey, I was right about the Interstellar Wars* so maybe I'm on a roll!).
*in a thread somewhere on this forum I listed "the forthcoming Interstellar Wars era" as one of my favorite Traveller milieux -- about a week BEFORE it was announced by SJG. I had no inside info; just a lucky guess.
From this I surmise that the Gateway Quadrant book will have maps and UWPs and capsule descriptions of the major worlds and polities in the sector (mostly duplicating the background portions of LoT), but that we won't be seeing much else on this sector in way of 'plot' development or Grand Adventures. Whether they'll explicitly state that they're trying not to invalidate/spoil prior canon or just leave the newbies hanging I have no idea.
Also worth keeping in mind is that since FFE owns the copyright, it's not entirely inconceivable that we may yet see Lords of Thunder resurrected in some form or another (totally unsubstantiated speculation/rumor-mongering on my behalf, but hey, I was right about the Interstellar Wars* so maybe I'm on a roll!).
*in a thread somewhere on this forum I listed "the forthcoming Interstellar Wars era" as one of my favorite Traveller milieux -- about a week BEFORE it was announced by SJG. I had no inside info; just a lucky guess.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
OK, I am tired of not knowing, and there is fundamentally no way to actually get a copy for myself (yes, I have checked eBay regularly), so here I ask.
Can someone please have pity on me (and the other clueless ones) and give us a fairly brief overview of Lords of Thunder?
By "brief" I mean more extensive that that little bit by kafka, but not enough to violate copyright or anything. Touch on the high points, if possible.
(Even if FFE does plan on including the material in a reprint, it gets to be in line behind the rest of the CT material, plus the 2300 and T2K material. And at the rate FFE is going on now, good luck on seeing it before 2010.
)
Thanks.
Can someone please have pity on me (and the other clueless ones) and give us a fairly brief overview of Lords of Thunder?
By "brief" I mean more extensive that that little bit by kafka, but not enough to violate copyright or anything. Touch on the high points, if possible.
(Even if FFE does plan on including the material in a reprint, it gets to be in line behind the rest of the CT material, plus the 2300 and T2K material. And at the rate FFE is going on now, good luck on seeing it before 2010.
)Thanks.
Well, you asked for it...
SPOILER WARNING -- Don't go if you don't want to know!
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There are a half-dozen or so major human polities in Gateway sector, all mutually antagonistic and tied up in a complex web of treaties and alliances much like Europe prior to WWI. With the stabilizing influence of the Imperium gone (the adventure is set during the Rebellion period)border skirmishes are becoming increasingly common and violent and, during the course of the LoT campaign the most aggressive power (the Hochikean Peoples Assembly) will probably annex a strategic set of worlds from another (smaller) polity, setting off a large-scale sector-wide war.
Meanwhile, on the trailing edge of the sector, the aforementioned radical k'kree offshoot empire (known as either the Xuruk Empire or the Lords of Thunder) have just annexed one of the smaller human empires and have eyes on the next in line. There's an ongoing guerilla conflict inside the conquered realm, and the k'kree are planning to use the outside funding of these terrorists/guerillas as a pretext for further invasion/annexation.
There's also a large loosely-organized Pirate presence in the sector, both 'legitimate' and as a front to supply the anti-k'kree guerillas, with several well-hidden bases on various non-aligned worlds.
The PCs can fill several roles: Mercenaries (cadre training anti-k'kree guerillas), Traders (smugging supplies to the guerillas), Agents (helping the authorities stamp out pirate activity), or Academics (standard nosy do-gooders).
Where the plot REALLY heats up is that a human archaeologist has discovered the Tablet of the Dawn, an ancient artifact describing a heretofore unknown (to humaniti) episode of k'kree prehistory -- how the legendary g'naak originally came from a 'second moon' that appeared in the sky over Kirur, and after a few centuries (or is it millenia?) left again. This guy is on the run, pursued by k'kree (and k'kree-employed) baddies, and, as these things happen, ends up taking refuge with our ever-so-lucky PCs.
After lots of mystery, skullduggery, a few red herrings, and probably a couple fights, the PCs will learn that the moon of the planet Trevannic IS the massive STL starship of the ancient g'naak, and that the g'naak (thought to have been genocidally eradicated in k'kree prehistory) still live on Trevannic, albeit in a debased barbarian state. And, just to stir the pot, that self-same moon also happens to be the largest pirate-base in the sector!
With the info from the Tablet of the Dawn (which will have been stolen from the PCs) and some deductive work, the Lords of Thunder will also figure all this out and send a warfleet to Trevannic to scrub the surface clean of life, eliminating the g'naak once and for all. Depending on the actions of the PCs, a human fleet may also be headed there to clean out the pirates. I believe a fleet from the HPA might also be scheduled to show up for some reason (but maybe I just added that in my imagination).
The 'good' ending is that the fleets show up at the same time and the k'kree (who were expecting unopposed genocide, not a real fight) back down. Having seen the true face of the LoT menace the human states then begin to get their act together and unite against their common enemy.
The 'bad' (and, IMO, probably more likely) ending is that the k'kree freely eradicate the g'naak, and that having done so increases the cachet of the Lords of Thunder to the point that they're raised to the head of the 'mainstream' Two Thousand Worlds gvernment. With this radical-even-for-the-k'kree group in charge, things will get real ugly real fast, but, alas, humaniti won't notice until it's too late since by this point they're all deeply embroiled in their own internecine wars.
And that's the basic plot. Hope this helped, and don't blame me now that it's spoiled for you!!!
Lords of Thunder is, IMHO, not only the best Traveller adventure ever published, but one of the best RPG adventures ever published for any game. It's one of the few that portray the K'kree as a deadly menace instead of comic relief.
One of my favorite features of the adventure are the moral ambiguities in it. There is a pacifist researcher who tries to stop the wars, but ends up providing the K'kree information they need to conquer humaniti. One of the pocket empire admirals is a brave and honorable man for whom his people would sacrifice their lives, and they will because he will lead them into a war they cannot win. The inhabitants of Trevannic, who the players absolutely must rescue in order to stop the K'kree, are a bunch of vicious scumbags the universe would be well rid of. This is great, great stuff.
One of my favorite features of the adventure are the moral ambiguities in it. There is a pacifist researcher who tries to stop the wars, but ends up providing the K'kree information they need to conquer humaniti. One of the pocket empire admirals is a brave and honorable man for whom his people would sacrifice their lives, and they will because he will lead them into a war they cannot win. The inhabitants of Trevannic, who the players absolutely must rescue in order to stop the K'kree, are a bunch of vicious scumbags the universe would be well rid of. This is great, great stuff.
Expect your credstick (or other economic transfer unit) to be drained. I paid Cr78 (local currency) for my copy off eBay last year. I feel I got it very cheap.
Actually I just picked up MTJ #3 & #4 a week ago for cr20(local currency). I was worried that I'd paid too much! I was relieved when I saw that they sold for cr12.95 originally(!!!?). Haven't had a chance to read through them but they look good!Originally posted by Nathan Brazil:
QUOTE]Expect your credstick (or other economic transfer unit) to be drained. I paid Cr78 (local currency) for my copy off eBay last year. I feel I got it very cheap.
-S.
The k'kree have always been my favorite Traveller bad guys, and IMO the people who dismiss them as a joke (which seems to be MOST people) are completely missing the point and overlooking a tremendous opportunity. Reread the article "Destiny: Within the Two Thousand Worlds" in JTAS21 (by William H. Keith -- not coincidentally the same author as LoT) and then tell me these guys aren't the scariest, evilest, most dangerously psychotic group anywhere in the OTU.
Hopefully with T20 being set so close to the Two Thousand Worlds we'll finally get the k'kree taken seriously and developed into a true interstellar menace. And the persistent rumors of the k'kree being somehow involved in whatever is going on behind the Black Curtain in the TNE setting make me even happier -- I'm sure those barbecue sauce jokes will go over great while they're nuking your homeworld into glass!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Ahh LoT. The ONLY MTJ I DO have. ANyone have objections to acquiring a copy for perusal, I can run a copy off, and mail to you for S & H cost.
(Long Hours, mucho paper, Mucho time on hands).
For Canadians & UK, & AUSTRAILIANS, its a wee bit more.(Air parcel).
e-mail me at devlin12@ipa.net for a copy. I'm shipping a copy of Hard Times at present so bear with me--I do answer me mail (Ask Arsulon & Doomhunk, george boyett, and the rest of the Swing-shift gang hereabouts!)
(Long Hours, mucho paper, Mucho time on hands).
For Canadians & UK, & AUSTRAILIANS, its a wee bit more.(Air parcel).
e-mail me at devlin12@ipa.net for a copy. I'm shipping a copy of Hard Times at present so bear with me--I do answer me mail (Ask Arsulon & Doomhunk, george boyett, and the rest of the Swing-shift gang hereabouts!)
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
As for K'Kree being the villains of OTU...Think about what if the Vagans, Radical Tree Huggers, and other folks who're gainst you eating a cheesberger, fatty oiled fries tobacco, and coffee would do if they were DNA'd together...
Yeppurs, they'd be K'Kree!~
RUN AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
Yeppurs, they'd be K'Kree!~
RUN AWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!
Not so great on ecology, at least as we understand it. They do go and change the ecology of thier planets by the "vegetarinanism or die" crusade. I ask for speculation in this area: Do they allow carnivores of any sort to live on their planets? Do they allow unitelligent ones around at least, or none at all? Would they keep some around for target practice for the military? Based on their philosophy/religion/lifestyle they couldn't, could they? Perhaps not genetic, since the Hiver meat sauce manipulation only took three generations. Further, having converted or killed intelligent carnivores, and perhaps killed the unintelligent ones, do they do terraforming or genetic engineering? Is an ecological balance maintained without carnivores? If so, how?
To throw some gasoline into the flames, I am not a vegetarian personally think it is wrong to deny one's biology in that manner. I think I would fight for my grease-ridden cheeseburger to the death (Bravely. For the golden arches! Charge!)
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Mr Brazil posted an interesting question...
"I ask for speculation in this area: Do they allow carnivores of any sort to live on their planets? Do they allow unitelligent ones around at least, or none at all? Would they keep some around for target practice for the military? Based on their philosophy/religion/lifestyle they couldn't, could they? Perhaps not genetic, since the Hiver meat sauce manipulation only took three generations. Further, having converted or killed intelligent carnivores, and perhaps killed the unintelligent ones, do they do terraforming or genetic engineering? Is an ecological balance maintained without carnivores? If so, how?'
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From the Lords of Thunder adventure in the last MTJ isue (the only one I have currently!), extermination of those landbound carnivores of low intelligence (the Gnaak) seems to be ont heir agenda. Subjugation/ re-education of intelligent lifeforms to "Their" lifestyle is also part of their conquest plan.
Terraforming? Probably for the herbivorous foods they dine upon. genetic engineering, again, as far as making plant life that nourishes them. Bugger all else. Extermination is easier.
Leave anything carnivorous alive that can threaten them? (sea creatures might be immune, as K'Kree don't do much swimming underwater without aide). Raptors that destroy vermin (rodentia, I can see them allowing to live. Large predatory lizards, cats, canines,snakes those have to be eradicated. herd animals, herbivores, have to be controlled, and altering the plant life does that nicely (die off there's too many of you deer!). SOme might be slow breeders, and could be "allowed" to share K'kree habitable worlds. Lebensraum is the motto of the K'Kree. A small herd-family unit needs hundreds of acres of savannah grasslands to sustain it.
Sciences? in biological weapons that affect other races than themselves, pretty high.
Space tech, TL-11 to 13 suits them fine.(lower automation, more personal control of their ships.)
So yes, I see them as altering ecologies too, fauna and flora. Mankind can be driven off, killed, or subjugated into vegetarianism. Makes em a prime villain in OTU versus Human, Vargr, Aslan, even Droyne states. You're not a K'Kree, you gotta go.
Only the Hivers have put any fear into them of a lasting nature.
"I ask for speculation in this area: Do they allow carnivores of any sort to live on their planets? Do they allow unitelligent ones around at least, or none at all? Would they keep some around for target practice for the military? Based on their philosophy/religion/lifestyle they couldn't, could they? Perhaps not genetic, since the Hiver meat sauce manipulation only took three generations. Further, having converted or killed intelligent carnivores, and perhaps killed the unintelligent ones, do they do terraforming or genetic engineering? Is an ecological balance maintained without carnivores? If so, how?'
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From the Lords of Thunder adventure in the last MTJ isue (the only one I have currently!), extermination of those landbound carnivores of low intelligence (the Gnaak) seems to be ont heir agenda. Subjugation/ re-education of intelligent lifeforms to "Their" lifestyle is also part of their conquest plan.
Terraforming? Probably for the herbivorous foods they dine upon. genetic engineering, again, as far as making plant life that nourishes them. Bugger all else. Extermination is easier.
Leave anything carnivorous alive that can threaten them? (sea creatures might be immune, as K'Kree don't do much swimming underwater without aide). Raptors that destroy vermin (rodentia, I can see them allowing to live. Large predatory lizards, cats, canines,snakes those have to be eradicated. herd animals, herbivores, have to be controlled, and altering the plant life does that nicely (die off there's too many of you deer!). SOme might be slow breeders, and could be "allowed" to share K'kree habitable worlds. Lebensraum is the motto of the K'Kree. A small herd-family unit needs hundreds of acres of savannah grasslands to sustain it.
Sciences? in biological weapons that affect other races than themselves, pretty high.
Space tech, TL-11 to 13 suits them fine.(lower automation, more personal control of their ships.)
So yes, I see them as altering ecologies too, fauna and flora. Mankind can be driven off, killed, or subjugated into vegetarianism. Makes em a prime villain in OTU versus Human, Vargr, Aslan, even Droyne states. You're not a K'Kree, you gotta go.
Only the Hivers have put any fear into them of a lasting nature.
I don't have a specific page reference (though I'm sure it's in AM2 somewhere) but I recall that k'kree only settle on hospitable worlds. From that, I'd say it's a pretty safe assumption that they do significant terraforming (Kirurforming), which would surely include eradication of all native carnivorous species and subsequent rebalancing of the local ecosystem. Note: the k'kree only oppose killing for food and sport -- there's no indication that they tolerate infestations or allow uncontrolled overbreeding, and, in fact, the k'kree word for their military translates to "pest control."
TNE-related tidbit: the k'kree are in a very interesting position wrt Virus. While on the one hand their technology is very automation-intensive, and thus particularly susceptible to Virus and colapse, OTOH since they only settle in naturally-habitable places they won't have experienced the sort of massive planetwide die-offs that hit the other Major Races. So, once they're able to recover starfaring technology (quite possibly, I daresay, in cooperation with certain strains of Virus -- important note: Virus is not carnivorous!) they should find themselves in a very strong position for recovery and/or conquest. Or at least that's what I'm hoping
TNE-related tidbit: the k'kree are in a very interesting position wrt Virus. While on the one hand their technology is very automation-intensive, and thus particularly susceptible to Virus and colapse, OTOH since they only settle in naturally-habitable places they won't have experienced the sort of massive planetwide die-offs that hit the other Major Races. So, once they're able to recover starfaring technology (quite possibly, I daresay, in cooperation with certain strains of Virus -- important note: Virus is not carnivorous!) they should find themselves in a very strong position for recovery and/or conquest. Or at least that's what I'm hoping
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
T Foster posted-"TNE-related tidbit: the k'kree are in a very interesting position wrt Virus. While on the one hand their technology is very automation-intensive, and thus particularly susceptible to Virus and colapse, OTOH since they only settle in naturally-habitable places they won't have experienced the sort of massive planetwide die-offs that hit the other Major Races. So, once they're able to recover starfaring technology (quite possibly, I daresay, in cooperation with certain strains of Virus -- important note: Virus is not carnivorous!) they should find themselves in a very strong position for recovery and/or conquest. Or at least that's what I'm hoping :[Devil]:
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I liiiiiike it!!!!!!! Mr Foster, I've been Out-evilled today! The grassmunchers have completely slipped my future minds eye! Yesssssss. Nasssty..(muhuhahaha!)
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I liiiiiike it!!!!!!! Mr Foster, I've been Out-evilled today! The grassmunchers have completely slipped my future minds eye! Yesssssss. Nasssty..(muhuhahaha!)
