EVA?

[hemulen]

Hi,

Ok, we finally got our first T20 session going yesterday, which turned into a straight 13 hour session covering 3 months of game time...

Anyway, twice during the session, various PCs needed to EVA across to another ship, once to one that was spinning. I was surprised to realise that there isn't really an EVA skill. I thought about using Jump, or something like that, but that are affected by Vacc suit minuses, and doesn't feel quite right to me. I would assume that an EVA skill would cover things like use of hand thrusters, timing moves properly, opening stuck airlocks manually (maybe), etc.

Any thoughts, suggestions on this one?

cheers,

Mark

 

[jfwking]

Originally posted by Mark B.:
Hi,

Ok, we finally got our first T20 session going yesterday, which turned into a straight 13 hour session covering 3 months of game time...

Anyway, twice during the session, various PCs needed to EVA across to another ship, once to one that was spinning. I was surprised to realise that there isn't really an EVA skill. I thought about using Jump, or something like that, but that are affected by Vacc suit minuses, and doesn't feel quite right to me. I would assume that an EVA skill would cover things like use of hand thrusters, timing moves properly, opening stuck airlocks manually (maybe), etc.

Any thoughts, suggestions on this one?

cheers,

Mark

Use the "pilot" skill or an untrained roll for using suit jets to reach a spining ship. Presume that for a simple task such as jetting to a visible and steady target the DC is 0 and then step up in DC5 steps from there:
not steady (ie moving closer/away.
Moving/spining in 2 dimensions.
Moving/spining in 3rd dimension.
Dangerous area (dust/debris cloud).
Reduced visability.
Inherantly dangerous area (gas giant/jump space).

So to jet across to a target on a steady vector (matched by players ship) but tumbling in three dimensions becomes a DC 10 check. Those without pilot are at -4 (no skill), those without zero-g feat are at -4 (those with are -2) and those without the vacc suit feat are -3 (tech 12 vacc). So the ships pilot (skill 8) with vacc suit feat will be at +4 (8-4) to make a DC 10 role to jet across to the ship. His friend the engineer who has no pilot skill but has vacc suit and zero-g will be at -6 to make the same check.
Probaby best to rope the crew together and let the pilot do the driving.

Having reached the hull to force the stuck airlock is then a "Technical" check, electrical or mechanical with the same factors as mentioned above. So if you say it is a difficult problem DC15 to force the airlock then the pilot has -8 (no skill, no zero-g) on his DC 15 roll and the engineer (skill 8) has +6 (8 skill -2 zero-g) on his roll.

Hope this is of some help.

PS. 13 hour game
Back in tut olde days I used to run some games like that but its been many a year since I did more than about six.

 

[hemulen]

Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
Use the "pilot" skill or an untrained roll for using suit jets to reach a spining ship. Presume that for a simple task such as jetting to a visible and steady target the DC is 0 and then step up in DC5 steps from there:
not steady (ie moving closer/away.
Moving/spining in 2 dimensions.
Moving/spining in 3rd dimension.
Dangerous area (dust/debris cloud).
Reduced visability.
Inherantly dangerous area (gas giant/jump space).

<snip>
Hope this is of some help.

Nice ideas - thanks! I'm not quite sure about pilot skill being the relevant one, but I like the DC5 increments idea - stolen and bolted on!

PS. 13 hour game
Back in tut olde days I used to run some games like that but its been many a year since I did more than about six.

We end up playing about one weekend out of four. This was our first T20 session, we'd done 3 hours on Friday night, and we've just finished another 5 hours today (Sunday). Up to now I've been running D&D, and that usually works out about the same hours over a weekend. Strangely enough, in this session, not a shot was fired and no-one took any damage!

cheers,

Mark

 

[Vanguard]

My players were in a similar situation this weekend. (Transfering 2dT of Scout Brew tanks to another ship in an asteroid belt...the tanks were too big for the airlocks.) I made them roll regular dex checks, players with applicable feats (zero-g adaptation, 3d spatial awareness) received bonuses. Had any of my players not been Vacc Suit proficient, they would have taken the standard armor non-proficiency penalty (-4? One of the players is borrowing my T20). I also might have given +2 synergy bonuses to the roll for balance or tumbling at 5+ ranks, as they both are related in a way to zero-g maneuverability.

The bad thing about doing things this way is it doesn't really allow for someone to be skilled in EVA. Switching the roll from a dex check to a reflex save might be a better choice.

I like Capt. Jonah's idea for difficulties, but I would start the progression at DC 10 rather than DC 0. Pushing off to a non-moving target in zero-g is far from trivial. However, a player can take 10 and still hit a non-moving object without a problem.

Using Pilot skill somewhat makes sense if you're involving thrusters and the like, but I think it's a little over-useful (3 skills in one as it is) already. Besides, Pilot to me wouldn't cover the body maneuvering required for effective EVA.

Only other viable option is to add a "EVA" skill. (not a good solution when you've already started the campaign)

Opening stubborn airlocks should definitely be mechanical (if they're physically stuck or jammed) or electronics. (if they're electronically locked)

 

[jfwking]

Pilot skill to fly under power (suit jets/thrusters) and jump skill if you are jumping.

Allowing your players to take 10 on jumping ship to ship, far too nice. All the nasty things that could happen to them if they do something wrong and you let them take 10. You are far too nice to your players, make them sweat more.

 

[far-trader]

My cr.02...

For EVA using sticky boots, a tether, suit thrusters or a MMU I believe the 'Armor Proficiency (Vac Suit)' feat is the applicable test. I would count moving this way as 'walking' requiring no check if they have the feat but a Dex check, with the armor penalty added if they do not have the feat.

For 'jumping' between two points in zero-G, in vacuum or not, the 'Zero-G/Low Gravity Adaptation' feat would apply, making the "Jump" skill check at the full penalty if they don't have the feat, and 2 less if they do. Note that the armor penalty may also apply.

 

[Vanguard]

I'm just loathe to use Jump when it's not a class skill for the classes that will be doing the most EVA (Belter, marine, navy). I don't have my book on me, so I could be off here, please correct me if these all do have Jump as a class skill.

 

[far-trader]

You're correct Vanguard, "Jump" is a class skill for only the Barabarian (and the Big game Hunter prestige class). I can understand your reluctance but I'd counter it with most Zero-G/Low-G work should and would be done as EVA by those classes. They wouldn't really do much of the 'jumping' as described. The small moves required for crossing a stateroom or going down a corridor under Zero-G/Low-G would I think reference the 'Zero-G/Low Gravity Adaptation' feat and "Walk" (no such skill listed cause we all know how), so no check if they have the feat but a Dex check, with any applicable armor penalty added if they do not have the feat.

 

[Vanguard]

Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
Allowing your players to take 10 on jumping ship to ship, far too nice. All the nasty things that could happen to them if they do something wrong and you let them take 10. You are far too nice to your players, make them sweat more.

True, this will allow for automatic success in optimal conditions, but since rolling a 1 on a check is not an automatic failure, setting the DC to zero also allows for automatic success in optimal conditions.

But you're probably right that I'm too nice to my players. They might disagree though.

 

[jfwking]

Originally posted by Vanguard:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
Allowing your players to take 10 on jumping ship to ship, far too nice. All the nasty things that could happen to them if they do something wrong and you let them take 10. You are far too nice to your players, make them sweat more.

True, this will allow for automatic success in optimal conditions, but since rolling a 1 on a check is not an automatic failure, setting the DC to zero also allows for automatic success in optimal conditions.

But you're probably right that I'm too nice to my players. They might disagree though.

</font>[/QUOTE]Another point to consider is the time involved in "taking 10", if you set the base dc to 10 and then add penalties and such like you can end up with unpleasantly high rolls when your players leave the airlock and have a few rounds to reach their ship before the bomb they just found in the cargo bay destroys the ship they thought they were salvaging. This situation also had various people dropping the valuables they had picked up so far because they were encumbered and some cruel GM was working out exactly how fast they were moving on the ship plan

With regard to Far-Traders comments above. I agree entirely with that. If you have vacc suit/zero-g and you are doing something safe and easy then no roll. Of course if you happen to be a groundsider with no space feats and a dex of 6 then moving around deserves a few rolls

 

[Vanguard]

Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
Another point to consider is the time involved in "taking 10", if you set the base dc to 10 and then add penalties and such like you can end up with unpleasantly high rolls when your players leave the airlock and have a few rounds to reach their ship before the bomb they just found in the cargo bay destroys the ship they thought they were salvaging. This situation also had various people dropping the valuables they had picked up so far because they were encumbered and some cruel GM was working out exactly how fast they were moving on the ship plan

Mmm...sounds like fun to inflic- er, run for my players.

(Nick, if you're reading this, just pretend you didn't)

Regarding the really high DCs, my PCs are all in the L9 range, so they eat hard tests for breakfast...so I've got to make it difficult somehow.
It's ok though, they've managed to cram every possible munchkin type on that ship (Social/Merchant Munchkin, Psychic Munchkin, Pilot Munchkin, Enginerd Munchkin) except for a Combat Munchkin. One of these days they'll get in a fight and actually have a challenge on their hands for once.

 

[CarlP]

There's a skill for VaccSuit, and I think also for Zero-G Operations. Wouldn't these be the appropriate skills for this situation? Both, when doing EVA, the first when operating planetside in a hostile environment, the second when in the ship without gravity.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by CarlP:
There's a skill for VaccSuit, and I think also for Zero-G Operations. Wouldn't these be the appropriate skills for this situation? Both, when doing EVA, the first when operating planetside in a hostile environment, the second when in the ship without gravity.

Yep, pretty much, they are actually feats and so generally help you use skills in special circumstances. That's the way I approached it in my examples above. Most of the time I think (for EVA and such in this topic) if you have the feat(s) and its a routine task there is no need to roll, but if you have no experience (i.e. no feat) and try to do something routine there'll be a check.

 

[CarlP]

they are actually feats

Ah. Mea culpa. I didn't have my book, and hadn't remembered that they were feats instead of skills. But if it works for you....

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by CarlP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> they are actually feats

Ah. Mea culpa. I didn't have my book, and hadn't remembered that they were feats instead of skills. But if it works for you.... </font>[/QUOTE]NP CarlP, just trying to be helpful, no slight intended. Feats, skills, not a big difference. I was just trying to make the rules as is work/apply to a specific situation. Like you say it works for me, YMMV. That said perhaps a specific EVA skill wouldn't be much to add to any YTU. Treat the Armor Proficiency (Vac Suit) feat like the Vessel feat including the free class skill at level 0, in this case EVA Operations, to cover MMU and suit thruster movement. In fact the same could work for the Zero-G/Low Gravity Adaptation feat, call the skill Floating, for all unpowered movement. Anyway just a couple thoughts.

 

[TKalbfus]

You know what you would use to jump from ship to ship in zero-g? Its not Jump. Jump is the skill you would use to determine how high or how far you can jump in a gravity field. Gravity should modify the required DC. The higher the gravity the higher the DC to jump any given distance. Jumping any short range distance in zero gravity therefore has a DC of 1. The hard part is actually hitting you target. The astronaut when jumping in space is effectively a low velocity projectile weapon. The Ship's size and distance would determine the number needed to hit. The ship's armor does not deduct since the astronaut isn't trying to penetrate the ship's hull only to come in contact with it. Some kind of dexterity grapple check is required to determine if the spaceman actually sticks to the ship's hull when he hits it rather than just bouncing off. There must be a very good reason why the target ship's can't simply move to intercept the spaceman.