Ethnic Cleansing

[Icosahedron]

Emboldened and encouraged by the fact that we managed to keep the topic of atheism out of the pit, I thought I'd try another risque topic.

If an invader (human, bug-eyed monster, or whatever) wants to take over a country or world in order to exploit its resources, and considers the indigenous (human) population to be an 'inconvenience', how easy/difficult would it be to completely eradicate the locals at different TL? What strategy/tactics would be most effective?

 

[far-trader]

I'm a fan of "give them enough rope to hang themselves" tactics often seen in cautionary tales. If you're in no big hurry.

It works across tech levels and the victims will never know you're behind it.

A quick for example might be something like giving a moderate tech society "the cure" for all diseases (including reproductive issues). Before long the population stress will overwhelm them and they'll pretty much destroy themselves fighting over food. As long as the resources you're after are durable and underused by the population (like deep minerals or oceans for example) you just wait until they all starve. You might have to clean up a few resourceful cannibals but that'd be easy. Or you could simply ignore them.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

This is one of the things the Imperium is likely to frown on.

 

[far-trader]

This is one of the things the Imperium is likely to frown on.

Except for when they did/do it themselves of course.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Ethnic cleansing and genocide is an action of people who can't deal with or refuse to deal with complex problems. Politics, ones own morals, the question of coming to a compromise - these can all be ignored. Exterminating people is extremely simple, across all TLs.

Biological warfare is probably the most effective, either on purpose or by accident (as in the case of the European arrival to the Americas.) It will leave the resources intact, including agricultural resources. As long as the pathogen is specific it won't stress the biosphere too much and it works faster than "starve them out."

At higher TLs, the biological agent would be the coup-de-grace. First, you'd want to eliminate the medical infrastructure through bombardment. This will prevent a timely quarantine response.

And as an Empire with a long and bloody history, one can only assume the 3I has tried it at least once.

An ugly backdrop to a very dark campaign, to be sure.

 

[DaveChase]

How do they want their resources

Like a virgin planet just waiting for someone
or like the Mechniods who want every last drop of resources and are willing to take it all?

Dave Chase

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Except for when they did/do it themselves of course.

Of course!

 

[Renaissance Man]

Well, considering you have a number of different sophonts in Traveller, it can be a lot easier to "dehumanize" a population of a different species and see them as an "inconvenience." If you've got a bunch of chirpers sitting on your lanthanum deposit with spears and a bad attitude, you better bet the 3I is going to ship them to camps. If that doesn't work, they might liquidate them. Now if it was some member of humaniti, maybe not... still, it hasn't stopped anyone in the past.

"Ethnic cleansing" BTW doesn't mean genocide necessarily. It's technically describes the forced movement of an ethnic group. Now, often that includes mass murder (as in the case of the Trail of Tears.) But I expect this form of atrocity will be far more common than outright genocide in the TU. In fact it might even have an air of respectability in the eyes of the 3I. Up until WWII, ethnic cleansing was regularly euphemised as "population transfer" and was seen as a reasonable solution to the problem of creating ethnically homogeneous nation-states in a world where heterogeneity was the rule.

We supposedly live in a more enlightened age, but that hasn't changed much on the ground.

 

[Spinward Scout]

(possible SPOILERS)

Well, you could always look at Science Fiction for inspiration.

In War of the Worlds, they had machines and death-o-rays to take out the population. Wait, no, they were stopped by a virus.

But then in Independence Day, they had giant ships over all of the populated cities with giant city-busting superlasers. Um, er, they were stopped by a computer virus and a Sidewinder missle.

How about in 3001 when the beings that made the Monolith tried to block out the sun in order to kill all life on the planet. Hmmm, stopped by a computer-style virus.

And then there's the Third Imperium which when trying to recover from a civil war brought on by the assassination of it's last Emperor, well, was destroyed by a Virus.

You know, one of the prevailing theories is that Neanderthal was killed off by a virus that Cro-Magnon was carrying.

Or you could create a charismatic Hitler-style military leader, but then he'd eventually be defeated by those who oppose his tactics and ideology.

Genocide doesn't usually work unless you rid the country or planet of what you are trying to get rid of all at once. History has shown that intentional genocide only works for so long until someone retaliates.

 

[Icosahedron]

But then in Independence Day, they had giant ships over all of the populated cities with giant city-busting superlasers.

I always figured those things were fusion guns from the explosive effect?

Genocide doesn't usually work unless you rid the country or planet of what you are trying to get rid of all at once. History has shown that intentional genocide only works for so long until someone retaliates.

Only one person so far who thinks it can't be done?

 

[rust]

Well, I think it could be done, but it could well become a suicidal strategy.

The idea of a geneered virus is a rather bad one if you belong to the same
or a very similar (e.g. Human - Vargr) species as your intended victim. Vi-
ruses tend to mutate rather quickly, and as the attacker you could well be
killed by your own bioweapon.

And then there is the problem with your neighbours. When they see you
commit an act of genocide, they might become somewhat suspicious of
your general ideas about motives and methods, and might decide that it
could be a good idea to consider you a risk - and eliminate that risk.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

There are lots of ways:

- men with machetes
- cattle trucks & gas chambers
- bio/chemical weapons
- redirect/dam a river and flood the area
- forced deportation
- pay them to leave

 

[Merxiless]

Certainly biological warfare is the best bet for something like this.

The only problem with a scenario like that in fiction..Us vs. Space Aliens, is that people generally want humanity to win. ..even though it wouldn't.

But a movie or novel with the theme : "We Got Ganked From Space, then died off" isn't going to be very popular except with a small subset of the population.

 

[Spinward Scout]

- pay them to leave

I have a feeling that one wouldn't work very well.

Illegal Alien Disbursement Clerk: "Didn't I just see you here last week?"

 

[Renaissance Man]

Only one person so far who thinks it can't be done?

Sad to say that it has been done. Or at least it has been done thoroughly enough to be considered at least a partial "success." Take again the fruits of one such success, which we Americans and Canadians are now enjoying. The destruction of the native population on the North American continent took more than two-hundred years, and suffered several retaliations and setbacks, but was ultimately a successful case of ethnic cleansing.

Moreover, this ethnic cleansing was not done entirely through "accidental" means (i.e. the introduction of European diseases.) Death marches, wholesale slaughters, and (oft overlooked) the willful destruction of essential economic resources were all employed. That last one would be the elimination of the plains buffalo. Without the buffalo, the plains Indians, who represented an abiding threat to Western expansion, could no longer practice their way of life.

Our own history of genocide and ethnic cleansing tends to be a bit of a blind spot when examining the topic. That's pretty standard, actually.

 

[travlar]

Certainly biological warfare is the best bet for something like this.

The only problem with a scenario like that in fiction..Us vs. Space Aliens, is that people generally want humanity to win. ..even though it wouldn't.

But a movie or novel with the theme : "We Got Ganked From Space, then died off" isn't going to be very popular except with a small subset of the population.

They might win. Even if just beacuase of something like all the Space Aliens are busy messing each other up for political reasons. Of course, there they might just come back later, so you would have to be able to consistently stop them until you figure out how to go on the offensive.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Sad to say that it has been done. Or at least it has been done thoroughly enough to be considered at least a partial "success." Take again the fruits of one such success, which we Americans and Canadians are now enjoying. The destruction of the native population on the North American continent took more than two-hundred years, and suffered several retaliations and setbacks, but was ultimately a successful case of ethnic cleansing.

I think that would be more of an ethnic relocation - the population wasn't destroyed. But you're right that they were treated badly. From wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_reservation:

The collective geographical area of all reservations is 55.7 million acres (225,410 km²), representing 2.3% of the area of the United States (2,379,400,204 acres; 9,629,091 km²)

There are twelve Indian reservations that are larger than the state of Rhode Island (776,960 acres; 3,144 km²) and nine reservations larger than Delaware (1,316,480 acres; 5,327 km²). Reservations are unevenly distributed throughout the country with some states having none.

Here's a map:

http://www.nps.gov/history/nagpra/DOCUMENTS/ResMAP.HTM

You are definitely right about the Buffalo, tho:

The current American Bison population has been growing rapidly and is estimated at 350,000, but this is compared to an estimated 60–100 million in the mid-19th century.

Here's another quote about ethnic cleansing:

Ethnic cleansing is a well-defined policy of a particular group of persons to systematically eliminate another group from a given territory, often based on economic principles, or nationalist claims to the land. Such a policy often involves violence and is very often connected with military operations. Unlike the U.S. Indian Removal program, which purchased the land from the natives, Ethnic Cleansing is to be achieved by all possible means, from discrimination to extermination, and entails violations of human rights and international humanitarian law.

 

[Icosahedron]

Certainly biological warfare is the best bet for something like this.

Hmm, it's interesting, looking at this and Andrew's list of methods, that each generation seems to choose 'current technology' as the best method. That suggests to me that previous methods are thought to be ineffectual, or at least inefficient?

But a movie or novel with the theme : "We Got Ganked From Space, then died off" isn't going to be very popular except with a small subset of the population.

LOL :rofl:

 

[mbrinkhues]

Assuming a planet inside your own borders a complete "cleaning" of a planet can be done. Some elements:

+ Low TL (pre TL6)

This means the locals have few means of fighting off minor diseases. Even the black death, Thyphoid or Cholera can wipe out large numbers of the population. Add some more and you don't need tailored stuff. OTOH Imperial MedTech has Panimmunity that work perfectly against such low-level threads (Bacterial Infections) so your workers will be safe and the diseases will die off without carriers. And disesases look "more natural" than chemical weapons.

+ Mineral resources only

If it's minerals you are after, use the whole catalog. Chemical weapons, persistant biologicals (Anthrax/Milzbrand is "great", ask the British), enhanced radiation warheads. Then use robots for the strip-mining and sterilise by exposure to vakuum/radiation before loading

+ Low Population

Find some Mercenary unit without scrouples. Have them kill the locals. Use Tigres to kill Mercs for "violation of the Imperial Rules of War". Mourn victims

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Well, I think it could be done, but it could well become a suicidal strategy.

The idea of a geneered virus is a rather bad one if you belong to the same
or a very similar (e.g. Human - Vargr) species as your intended victim. Vi-
ruses tend to mutate rather quickly, and as the attacker you could well be
killed by your own bioweapon.

And then there is the problem with your neighbours. When they see you
commit an act of genocide, they might become somewhat suspicious of
your general ideas about motives and methods, and might decide that it
could be a good idea to consider you a risk - and eliminate that risk.

Interestingly, there is a Traveller Universe example of this. And the results are pretty much as you predicted.

During the Long Night, the Second Empire of Gashikan (one of those sectors waaaay up on the coreward section of the Charted Space map) actually developed and deployed anti-Vargr biological weaponry. The "Wolvesbane" project did manage to clear the sector of nearly all Vargr populations (and probably a good number from neighboring sectors as well) before the Vargr learned to counteract it.

Still, it was stunningly effective, didn't seem to kill any humans in the process (or at least none were reported), and gave the Gashikans a well-earned reputation for genocidal ruthlessness. Even today, over 2000 years later, Gashikan space is definitely not a place where it's at all pleasant to be a Vargr. On Gashikan proper, for instance, all Vargr are simply killed on sight; no questions asked.

But the end result is that Gashikan is an increasingly unstable siege-mentality state that is surrounded by populations that hate it, falling behind technologically, and unable to keep large sections of its frontier regions from routinely defecting to the very enemies they're sworn to defeat.