Engine noise inside a starship?

[Stainless]

In your Traveller Universe, do you have any engine/system noise *inside* your starships? Is it perfectly silent except for the ventillation system & intercom/sound system? Is the engineering room the only loud place? If so, how loud?

I'm just wondering as there is a lot of energy being converted in them-thar engines cap'n. If they are 100% efficient, it should all go out the back into space/atmosphere. But I doubt that even at the highest tech levels, there are truely 100% efficient drives, so there must be some noise and/or heat.

What I'm thinking of using is to have some serious noise in the engine room, but sound dampening technology cuts it all out from the rest of the ship (unless it's a very economical ship like an Xboat).

 

[Gruffty]

Originally posted by Stainless:
Do you have any engine/system noise *inside* your starships?

Yup. Engine "rumble" (a sound, not a vibration - I take it that the Inertial Comps rub out the physical rumble), coolant system hisses and fwishes, electronic bleeps/pings/nangs/etc from control panels. Red lighting for battle/action stations.

And best of all....

Klaxon alarms <HONKHONKHONKHONK.....>

Is it perfectly silent except for the ventillation system & intercom/sound system?

Only when in a pressurised (orbital or vac world) or dirtside (habitable planet) dry dock and everything is switched off and no-one is working inside or outside the ship. By everything, I mean the whole thing: M-Drive, J-Drive, P-Plant, computer, life support, etc.

 

[Gruffty]

Originally posted by Stainless:
Is the engineering room the only loud place? If so, how loud?

I've never been aboard a nuclear powered vessel, so maybe some of the Nuke guys on these boards can answer that one. "Tradition" would have it (i.e. sea-going ships) that the engine room of a conventionally powered (non-nuc) ship is noisier than the rest of the ship, and I can vouch for this.

 

[aramis]

IMTU, it's more of a deep hum, mostly from electronics, and background hiss from moving air.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

The engine compartment is definitely louder, but the whole ship is amazingly loud - like a factory. (Which you don't really notice until you're back dirtside and your wife asks you to stop yelling when you talk!

) We got a noise-cancelling headset and compared the noise levels - INCREDIBLE difference!

 

[Spinward Scout]

"I didn't hear a thing until something went BOOM!"
- anonymous Traveller.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Gruffty:
I've never been aboard a nuclear powered vessel, so maybe some of the Nuke guys on these boards can answer that one.

Gruffty,

It's still an engineroom with a steam cycle. The 'tea kettle' may be different, but the noises and noise level are essentially the same. Despite wearing muffs and plugs where indicated in Navy enginerooms and civilian industries, I had upper range hearing loss by my early 30s. Today, in a crowded room or party, I need to be facing you to make out what you're saying.

IMTU, thanks to the active noise dampening technologies that are only now being developed at TL8, ships and compartments in ships are as noisy or as quiet as their designers wish them to be.

In passenger spaces and crew berthing(1), background noise from the ship's equipment simply doesn't exist. The few cases in which it is allowed have to do with the operation of appliances. You want to hear the water gurgle from the tap, but you don't need to hear the hiss of the heater. Tiny hums, swishes, dings, tings, and whooshes are all part of that background that makes humans comfortable. Noise dampening could make each compartment as quiet as a grave and that would slowly drive the occupants mad.

In working compartments, noise dampening is much less practiced. First, it's a place to skimp on equipment costs. Second, noise is a part of operating any piece of equipment. Even with my high register loss, I still am able to discern minute changes in the operating nature of machinery I am familiar with thanks to almost subliminal noises.

The same holds true for 57th Century engineers. Like me, they want and need to hear the fuel purifier purifying, that generator generating, that reactor reacting. The noise is part of how they interact with and control the equipment.

Will the engineering spaces aboard a 57th Century Beowulf be as noisy as the 20th Century ones that damaged my hearing? No... as long as their noise dampening equipment isn't broken!


Have fun,
Bill

1 - My berthing space, that is where I slept, aboard USS California was posted as a Hazardous Noise Area when the ship was underway. As a Hazardous Noise Area, we were supposed to wear plugs or muffs while in the space. In our sleep. Right.

Both propeller shafts ran underneath the compartment, #2 engineroom was immediately forward, #2 emergency diesel immeidately aft along with #2 pump room. I could wake up each morning and remember the drill run during the mid-watch the night before thanks to the 2MC announcements made over a loudspeaker in #2 ER a few feet from my rack on the other side of a bulkhead. While those announcements were in my memory, they never actually woke me either.

 

[veltyen]

Second, noise is a part of operating any piece of equipment.

Perfect noise damping has certain advantages. I could see perfect damping mixed with artificial cues, much like in a space fighter.

Sound is an important interface, the cues listened for (breathing of a small child, the normal hum of a well balanced engine) are immediately obvious when they change or stop.

So a fighter pilot hears information about surrounding craft, even though the ranges and transmission of sound make that impossible. Other sensors make the determination ("target #7 has gone boom", "target #3 is approaching rapidly from behind") and relay that to the pilot as sound.

So the engineers on a ship may be wearing earmuffs so that they can hear the engines. The earmuffs don't act as silencers, active dampers kill all ambient noise over an arbitrary level, but as relays about machine health.

 

[Maladominus]

IMTU, all starships have a constant low deep hum while in flight. How noisy is this depends on the Tech Level. At higher TLs, the ship hulls have built-in noise dampening technology, which minimizes this constant noise. The noise is still there, but it is dampened (muffled) so that passengers in the ship's "living compartments" will barely notice it. IMTU.

 

[GypsyComet]

If Traveller fusion power plants are on a steam cycle, then they will be noisy, though that may be the most noisy part of them. Just the act of taking slush Hydrogen directly into an active fusion reaction will create noise, though.

Much the same goes for the Jump drive, though the really high volumes of fuel and short-term operations means a jump drive going into operation will make some nasty sucking noises in the plumbing, followed quickly by a rattle-hum as all that hydrogen hits fusion temperatures, and an electric hum as all that power hits the jump capacitors.

By comparison, I expect a Thruster to be silent in the human audible range, though it may have some ultrasonic expressions. As such, a Thruster being turned on will start out audible but rise beyond audible quickly. This also serves as a good warning for the engineer, as the ultrasonics are also damped, but the lower orders are specifically NOT damped. If he can hear the Thrusters, there's a problem.

Fuel purification can be pretty quiet except for the plumbing and the refrigeration. Depending on the nature of the unit, you will either get a constant low-end gurgle in the plumbing or a periodic flush and refill.

Then there's the other maneuver drive from TNE and T4: HEPlaR. That will be noisy in a rocket kind of way, and obviously damped strongly.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

So, Bill, that explains some of the misunderstandings - you're part deef! I have a similar problem from wearing my headset with one ear uncovered on the airplane, so we could talk cross-cockpit without cluttering up the intercom. BTW, one stateroom I occupied on a carrier (as a contractor) was directly underneath the hydraulics for one of the blast deflectors on the flight deck. That was actually worse than the thud as the hook met the front of the catapult!

Gypsy, are you saying that the sounds of a working fuel system will be bathroom noises?!

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by Maladominus:
IMTU, all starships have a constant low deep hum while in flight. How noisy is this depends on the Tech Level. At higher TLs, the ship hulls have built-in noise dampening technology, which minimizes this constant noise. The noise is still there, but it is dampened (muffled) so that passengers in the ship's "living compartments" will barely notice it. IMTU.

IMTU, 2.

 

[Plankowner]

Bill Cameron and I were stationed on the same Cruiser, but at different times... USS Dale, CG-19.

My bunk was in the Fwd part of the ship, with a bunch of FT's (Fire Control Techs, Gunners in Traveller). Just outboard of my bunk was a check valve for the cooling system. Damn thing was 12 inches in diameter and BANGED every time the ship rolled. I NEVER slept well.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
So, Bill, that explains some of the misunderstandings - you're part deef!

Fritz,

Huh?





Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
Bill Cameron and I were stationed on the same Cruiser, but at different times... USS Dale, CG-19.

Plank,

Aboard Dale I slept aft in that huge engineering berthing almost directly under the Tartar launch rails. Both scews were beneath that compartment too. Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....


Have fun,
Bill

 

[stofsk]

Originally posted by Stainless:
In your Traveller Universe, do you have any engine/system noise *inside* your starships?

Absolutely.

[qb]Is it perfectly silent except for the ventillation system & intercom/sound system?

There is no silence onboard a functioning starship. If there were, I'd be worried.

[qb]Is the engineering room the only loud place? If so, how loud?

The loudest part in the whole ship. The quietest part of the ship might be the staterooms. As for 'how loud', how long's a piece of string? It's loud enough that you notice and respect the fact you're standing near a goddamn FUSION REACTOR.

 

[Plankowner]

Yeah Bill, I remember that compartment. Most of the BTs that I worked with were in the adjacent bunk room. Yes, I was a Machinist Mate assigned to the Boiler room! Qualified Boiler Watch sooner than their new guy right out of C school who got there a week before I did too (REALLY pissed him off...).

 

[Commander Drax]

It states in MT Starship Operators Manual that the engine room is a very noisy place with any one of the available drives/plants etc, being able to split an eardrum. Hence engineers and drive staff are required to wear ear protectors with a built in commo array so that they can keep in touch with others aboard ship. Indeed these head sets are so distinctive that even 'buck' passengers learn to recognise engineering staff as the ones with their 'ears' on.

The rest of the ship should be pretty quiet though except for the sounds of ventilation and electronics when used.

 

[mbrinkhues]

G:T Starships makes a similar if a bit less severe statement.

IMTU:

Engine rooms are loud, starting from the fact that they have bare metal and/or gratings as a floor and going all the way to working pumps, ventilators, injectors and all.

The same is due for the cargo space. Again, no sound-dampening and no sound-isolation. After all the containers won't care. Again, bare metal floors and openly visible installations

The crew/passenger space has sound-dampening carpets/wall isolation, hidden installations etc. Depending on the quality of the ship, they can be encased in a massiv set of insulation and/or partially de-coupled from vibration (think of an inverse engine "float"). Some passenger liners even have active sound dampers.

Bridge etc. is a mixed bag, less plush and dampening but better sound insulation that the engineering space

 

[poltroon]

In my Traveller Universe, the sounds inside the vessels relates to the "quality" of the vessel. The really ritzy, posh, expensive liners, highend freighters, and yachts are very well soundproofed, and all that is heard is the whisper of the perfumed air passing through the hidden ventilation system, or the low pleasant sounds of music from the intership-com.....

But on my freighters, tramp or low end, the soundproofing is far from perfect (if still even equipped). There is always a thrum from the powerplant (the engineer knows what each hiccup means). There is always constant noise, even the internal bracers shriek when the gravfields flex. Makes for interesting backnoise.