IMTU I'm playing with the idea that ships don't need to come out of jumpspace after a week as long as they have the fuel to stay. The Jump rating is the distance in parsecs that the ship can move through jumpspace in a week. Higher ratings mean that the ship is more efficient at moving through the gravitational morass of jumpspace. This effectively means that Jump-1 vessels can make 2 parsec jumps if they have enough fuel, it just takes them two weeks to do it rather than one.
Empty Hexes and Jump Drives
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I like that idea too Valarian
Do you require any extra overhead cost for life support during jumps longer than a week?
Does a 1.5 parsec jump take 1.5 weeks, or a full 2 weeks?
Do you require any extra overhead cost for life support during jumps longer than a week?
Does a 1.5 parsec jump take 1.5 weeks, or a full 2 weeks?
The problem with that, Valarian, is that what little justification for per jump pricing there is (versus per parsec) goes RIGHT out the window.
Further, if you can stay in longer, by gum, logically you should be able to stay in shorter... in which case, by switching to J4, you get 4 J1 jumps in a week, which means, 3.5 jumps per month, in which to make your salaries and payments, with about 2/3 the cargo space, and 7/4 the cargo space, or about 7/6 the income, WITHOUT adjusting for speed, or the lack of per-jump pricing.
Logically, all merchants should be the best TL available, or they can't keep up financially...
Further, if you can stay in longer, by gum, logically you should be able to stay in shorter... in which case, by switching to J4, you get 4 J1 jumps in a week, which means, 3.5 jumps per month, in which to make your salaries and payments, with about 2/3 the cargo space, and 7/4 the cargo space, or about 7/6 the income, WITHOUT adjusting for speed, or the lack of per-jump pricing.
Logically, all merchants should be the best TL available, or they can't keep up financially...
Testing - three posts in a row with "page not available"
Does this work?
***edit***
Ok, so it worked, yet 5 minutes earlier I lost 6 paragraphs worth of typing dang it! Ah well.
Gist of my statement is this:
CT has references to deep space jumps, T4's POCKET EMPIRES has references to Deep space jumps. No where have I seen any references to the need for a gravity well for exit from jump space. And although a FAN of GURPS, I've not seen any reference to bodies between entry and exit points of jump space being able to affect a ship's jump. While the concept of a star having a 100 diameter radius was never directly addressed in CT canon, the initial books for CT didn't give the diameters of stars either - not until SCOUTS came out. I consider that to have been a "blind spot" that was overlooked. In any event, if you have access to Marc's article in JTAS - the electronic form, there is an article he wrote about Jump space that I've never forgotten. In it, he states that the accuracy of a perfect jump is accurate to within 3 Kilometers per parsec travelled. He also indicates that there are other factors involved that might make a jump less accurate (and doesn't really go into detail darn it).
Me? I ignore ALL bodies between the Jump entry point and the Jump exit point (jump shadow my BUTT) and stick to using only "within 10 diameters of a body" or "within 100 diameters of a body" or "outside of 100 diameters" for jump purposes.
Where ever possible, I try to make my GURPS Traveller campaign mimic CT providing it makes sense. Jump Shadows don't make sense. Needing gravity wells don't make sense. I am almost tempted to make it so that Navigation AND piloting rolls that succeed by 2 points or more on the skill roll automatically imply PERFECT conditions, while successes by less than 2 are treated as minor variable jump duration times. Navigation misses by 1, or piloting differences that miss by 1 result in a duration that is variable by up to +/- 10% of jump time.
As for a per parsec model of jump pricing? I'm all for it myself. But I'm also someone who likes GURPS FAR TRADER, so what can I say
Does this work?
***edit***
Ok, so it worked, yet 5 minutes earlier I lost 6 paragraphs worth of typing dang it! Ah well.
Gist of my statement is this:
CT has references to deep space jumps, T4's POCKET EMPIRES has references to Deep space jumps. No where have I seen any references to the need for a gravity well for exit from jump space. And although a FAN of GURPS, I've not seen any reference to bodies between entry and exit points of jump space being able to affect a ship's jump. While the concept of a star having a 100 diameter radius was never directly addressed in CT canon, the initial books for CT didn't give the diameters of stars either - not until SCOUTS came out. I consider that to have been a "blind spot" that was overlooked. In any event, if you have access to Marc's article in JTAS - the electronic form, there is an article he wrote about Jump space that I've never forgotten. In it, he states that the accuracy of a perfect jump is accurate to within 3 Kilometers per parsec travelled. He also indicates that there are other factors involved that might make a jump less accurate (and doesn't really go into detail darn it).
Me? I ignore ALL bodies between the Jump entry point and the Jump exit point (jump shadow my BUTT) and stick to using only "within 10 diameters of a body" or "within 100 diameters of a body" or "outside of 100 diameters" for jump purposes.
Where ever possible, I try to make my GURPS Traveller campaign mimic CT providing it makes sense. Jump Shadows don't make sense. Needing gravity wells don't make sense. I am almost tempted to make it so that Navigation AND piloting rolls that succeed by 2 points or more on the skill roll automatically imply PERFECT conditions, while successes by less than 2 are treated as minor variable jump duration times. Navigation misses by 1, or piloting differences that miss by 1 result in a duration that is variable by up to +/- 10% of jump time.
As for a per parsec model of jump pricing? I'm all for it myself. But I'm also someone who likes GURPS FAR TRADER, so what can I say
Well, I think this is one of those areas where there is canon on boths side of the issue. I distinctly remember a JTAS article that said with J1 you could only target the largest gravity well in a system, and you got more options as your J# improved. I basically ignored that because I have also read that J travel was supposedly initially used in the Sol system for in system jumps to Jupiter. Now, both can't be right because if you go by the gravity well interpretation, then you can't do in system micro jumps because with J1 you'd always leave J space on the 100 diameter of the Sun.
BTW Hal, same thing happened to me on the long distance trade thread a day or so ago, but I was too tired to try again. I admire your perseverence for the good of the community.
BTW Hal, same thing happened to me on the long distance trade thread a day or so ago, but I was too tired to try again. I admire your perseverence for the good of the community.
Sigg, Aramis,
To avoid thread crashing I'm taking the jump discussion off topic to this thread: http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=42&t=000274
To avoid thread crashing I'm taking the jump discussion off topic to this thread: http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=42&t=000274
That is the beauty of it all. I'm not going to stand behind you and twist your arm to force you to play it my way. Myself? I've long ago come to realize (after playing Traveller since 1979/80 in college - that being allowed to jump JUST outside of a planet's 100 diameter radius makes for a dull Traveller Universe. The ONLY way I can see a pirate taking on a merchant ship is if the merchant ship is in "normal" space for what ever reasons may apply. Those reasons in my GURPS Traveller Universe?
Per GURPS STARPORTS - worlds with a hydrographic rating of less than 4 outlaw wilderness refueling from water of their world. That means that the world, if it doesn't sell refined fuel, is going to require the merchants to skim their own fuel at the local gas giant.
Per the 100 diameter rule for stars: if a world is within the lifezone of a star as well as its 100 diameter radius - ships will now need to travel in normal space not beyond the world's diameter limit, but the stars. It also means that any pirates must also clear the sun's 100 diameter rating to escape any patrol ships. Oddly enough? It also means that the navy has more space to patrol.
All things considered? I don't need the Jump Shadow rules from GURPS TRAVELLER to get my players to spend time in Normal space. You on the other hand? If your traveller Universe is fun for the way you run it - by all means run it that way! If you're not having fun, you won't want to run it as a GM. And if you're not enjoying it as a player, you won't want to return to the game even if the Ref will throw riches at the feet of your charcter. How many people here remember the twilight zone episode where a James Dean like guy dies and is in the afterlife. He can't lose at billiards. The women are all beautiful, and everything he tries his hand comes easily and without effort. Eventually, he tells his "supposed angel advisor" that he wants to go to the "OTHER PLACE" - as this place is too boring. The angel advisor says with an evil chuckle "This *IS* the other place"
princelian
SOC-12
IMTU, I do not have the jump bubble. The bubble of realspace that keeps the ship from dissolving into the energies of J-space is an energy field generated by the jump drive, and extends several meters beyond the outermost edges of the ship. (It can be roomier in certain parts of the ship.)
Anything that pierces this energy field is disassociated into randomized energy and lost (effectively destroyed). Thus, an engineer working in hyperspace whose arm brushes the jump field loses the arm below the plane of contact. His suit is now dumping atmosphere and he's been dismembered, but he's probably going to pull through if he (a) has a self-sealing suit or (b) has a buddy. Not so if his head is the part that brushed the jumpfield, incidentally.
Jumpspace is maddening to the naked eye IMTU, but spacesuits and portholes have a filter built into the helmet/window (for any jump-capable tech level) that deals with the effect.
As far as jump precipitation, it is an effect that works as a safety feature - if you do, as Han Solo suggests, fly right into a star, you'll drop out of hyperspace away from it. Hmm...star was a bad example, because the habitable zone for most stars is less than 100D, but let's ignore that for now.
Anything that pierces this energy field is disassociated into randomized energy and lost (effectively destroyed). Thus, an engineer working in hyperspace whose arm brushes the jump field loses the arm below the plane of contact. His suit is now dumping atmosphere and he's been dismembered, but he's probably going to pull through if he (a) has a self-sealing suit or (b) has a buddy. Not so if his head is the part that brushed the jumpfield, incidentally.
Jumpspace is maddening to the naked eye IMTU, but spacesuits and portholes have a filter built into the helmet/window (for any jump-capable tech level) that deals with the effect.
As far as jump precipitation, it is an effect that works as a safety feature - if you do, as Han Solo suggests, fly right into a star, you'll drop out of hyperspace away from it. Hmm...star was a bad example, because the habitable zone for most stars is less than 100D, but let's ignore that for now.
B
Black Globe Generator
Guest
I'm not Ranger, but here ya go anyway: "From Port to Jump-point," JTAS 22:24-30.
I agree with Ranger, by the way - I don't restrict certain jump drive ratings to particular jump points - I use the jump points in the article as the places for which one can usually buy a commercial jump program, meaning if you want to jump into a system someplace else, you'd better have both Navigation and Generate in your computer.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
That article is a suggested rules variant, it is not part of the OTU canon.
It's a good article though
It's a good article though
Thanks for pulling up my slack guys. I'm not in the states right now, and all my Traveller stuff is. I didn't realize that article wasn't canon, I just didn't think it fit with other stuff I'd read.
I like the idea of comercial vs. calculated data. Adds a nice twist to things.
Now that I think about it, wasn't the first Earth expidition to Barnard's Star done with J1 ships using a reference point and prestaged fule?
I like the idea of comercial vs. calculated data. Adds a nice twist to things.
Now that I think about it, wasn't the first Earth expidition to Barnard's Star done with J1 ships using a reference point and prestaged fule?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Originally, yes IIRC.
GT:ISW have a convenient brown dwarf discovered to make the trip possible.
A fuel dump still has to be constructed due to the dangers involved in trying to refuel from a brown dwarf.
GT:ISW have a convenient brown dwarf discovered to make the trip possible.
A fuel dump still has to be constructed due to the dangers involved in trying to refuel from a brown dwarf.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
A Jump Gate system. As long as the stations were more than 100D out, since ships can use Drop tanks I don't see why not. However drop tanks are generally not for commercial use and in some editions of Traveller they increase misjump possibilities. If this worked it would eliminate long haul starships carrying fuel, and Military strikes could be planned farther away with the ability to escape. (Or not escape and Battleriders could have jump engines but not jump fuel, keeping the tenders out of harms way until pick up time.) The Battleriders travelling with a Courier, (Using the same gate and therefore keeping enough fuel to jump back and call for pick up.
Sifu Blackirish
SOC-14 1K
Funny you would say that...
IMTU the early Terran probes were nuclear fission powered. Haven't been able to dig out FFS to crunch the numbers, but I did a handwave and said twice as long, so you spend a week in jump, then another week MINIMUM to recharge before doing it again.
When did this happen?
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
A long time ago, but I forget where.
graymask1120
SOC-9
IMTU, when creating a subsector (assuming that I elect to get that far into the creation) I roll 1d10 for each empty hex - on a roll of exactly 10, the hex contains a "Black System".
"Black Systems" are stars that have no worlds - at all. No gas giants, no planets -- nothing, except maybe a very thin Oort Cloud, that is mostly rock.
Why are they left off of Nav Charts? Well, they're not, exactly - they just usually aren't typically displayed for civilian use. (Any PC with Nav 2+ gets to see where the Black Systems are).
The reason for the editing? Black Systems usually contain unstable stars that pump out massive amounts of hard radiation (as in, "hard enough to give even the military pause" hard).
As was pointed out in some canon material, hiding a major Naval Depot/Base in a supposed-Black System is pointless, as simple traffic analysis would eventually find it...
...OTOH, minor Imperial Research Stations, pirate lairs, yachts, etc......
"Black Systems" are stars that have no worlds - at all. No gas giants, no planets -- nothing, except maybe a very thin Oort Cloud, that is mostly rock.
Why are they left off of Nav Charts? Well, they're not, exactly - they just usually aren't typically displayed for civilian use. (Any PC with Nav 2+ gets to see where the Black Systems are).
The reason for the editing? Black Systems usually contain unstable stars that pump out massive amounts of hard radiation (as in, "hard enough to give even the military pause" hard).
As was pointed out in some canon material, hiding a major Naval Depot/Base in a supposed-Black System is pointless, as simple traffic analysis would eventually find it...
...OTOH, minor Imperial Research Stations, pirate lairs, yachts, etc......
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