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Emperor and Moot: what do they do?

jatay3

SOC-13
The Emperor's power is theoretically absoulute. In reality that is impossible. It is possibly impossible generally except in the most unusual situations. But the Imperium is a special case.
In the Imperium the Emperor has a power analogous to a typical European monarch of the Eighteenth century. While nominally absoulute he is bound up in customs and special interests. He cannot for instance simply order a noble executed because he was bored.
Moreover the size of the Imperium makes it impossible for him to personally manage the policy requirements for the entire Imperium. That is Traveller 101.
However as the actual policy is made by the dukes that brings up the question of what the Emperor does.
I would say that the Emperor is the "referee" watching the discussion and chooseing from the different policy options, perhaps adding his own touches.
Commander William Grant(Nobles p.5)describes the process well:
"There is an art to leading Vilani-you wait while your underlings hash things out, watch for the emerging consensus, and then issue corresponding dictates as if they were entirely your own idea. Everyone goes to work happy."

Furthermore the organization of the Imperium requires that the local policy makers have someone to coordinate them lest they make incompatable policies(or even act in deliberate competition to the detriment of the Imperial interests).

All this brings us to the function of the Moot. It has very few official powers. This is because it's unofficial powers are tremendous. This is where "the underlings hash things out" and in a sense they are the real makers of policy.

"In a sense..." But everything in the Imperial government is "in a sense". The Imperium is officially a near absoulute monarchy. In practice it is an oligarchy. But the chief powers of the ruling class are unwritten-as is the function of the Emperor.
 
One interesting thing about the Moot is that there is no house of commons. It is argueable that there is no need for one: the Nobility-and-Emperor rule "the space between the stars". The planetary governments rule on the planets-more or less.
However, in a way the pariochial, rank, and honor nobility provide an informal House of Commons to some degree-and if they are not exactly populated by the lowest classes, they are about as representative as the English House of Commons was through most of it's history.
Another purpose of the rank and honor nobility is to provide a constant influx of talent. Also the honor nobles have no source of power of their own and owe everything to the Imperium. They thus provide a stabilizing force. The older families have their own place in the system. They provide a large number of people highly trained in the craft of governing. While human history indicates that this advantage tends to become degraded with the temptations of priveledge it is still there. And the construction of the Imperium makes sure that a good portion of the most talented will rise to the top through the stress of competition.
One of the main functions of the nobility structure is that it provides a type of status for the ambitious to compete for that only the Imperium can give. If they compete for simple power that would be destablizing. But the fact that they compete for favor ensures that the Imperium will hold together because it is in the interest of the powerful that it hold together. "With such baubles men are won"-Napolean Bonaparte.
 
jatay, the biggest way the Emperor runs things is by carefully choosing the folks who "hash things out". If you pick carefully enough, you can influence the Imperium beyond the grave.
 
The Moot is there ...
To advise
To warn
To keep an eye on important nobles
To “interview” nobles for advancement
To ensure the smooth selection of a successor
To serve as a source of legitimacy should times get tough
 
The Moot is NOT:
</font>
  • a legislative body</font>
  • in the chain of command</font>
  • elected</font>
The moot is
</font>
  • A feedback system to the emperor</font>
  • A means of trying lesser nobles than the emperor (IMTU)</font>
  • A body from which advisors and ministers can be drawn</font>
  • The sole determinant of the new emperor</font>
  • not every noble (physical impossibility)</font>
  • An investigative body</font>

IMTU, each landed sector Duke and Archduke appoints a proxy to attend the moot at capital. Each landed count and duke appoints a proxy to attend the sector moot. Each landed Baron, Viscount, Marquis, and count appoints a proxy or attends in person the subsector moot.

The moot IMTU supervises the bureaucracy, functioning as a JUDICIAL branch, not a legislative one. IE, they can fire any bureaucrat, cashier any soldier, or strip any noble. The Emperor can override (Pardon) these folks...
 
IMTU the Moot is the body that advises the Emperor, most significantly on the selection of sector and subsector governors,* admirals and generals, judges, and other offices filled by the Imperium - while the Emperor techinically makes the appointment, acceptance of a candidate by the Moot is generally considered necessary and prudent in order to maintain stability and harmony. Because the Moot exerts such an important influence over the administration of the Imperium, the office of Chancellor of the Moot is considered by many to wield influence second only to that of the Emperor him- or herself.


*IMTU domains, sectors, and subsectors are not the demesnes of archdukes and dukes - instead, the administrators of the Imperium are viceroys (domain), governors-general (sector), and governors (subsector). One of these days I'm going to have to write this up for the board...
 
I'm thinking for my next game, Sectors will have Archdukes, Subsectors Dukes, Clusters Counts, Major Worlds Viscounts, Lesser main worlds Barons, and significant subordinate worlds Baronets/Knights Bannerette.

A sector moot will exist, comprised of the Dukes and Counts, or their assigned proxies. Subsector moots will exist, comprised of the counts, viscounts and barons.

The Imperial Moot will be proxies sent by the Dukes and Archdukes.

Each Noble's court will have several officer positions of lesser noble ranks, also for career nobles.

Seneschale, Marshal, Castellan, Exchecker, Justicar, Moot-Proxy: one rank less than his Liege. May be filled down-rank. Senschale may be same rank as liege IN RARE CASES, for example 10+ years loyal service.
Steward, Chamberlain, Constable, Arts, Sciences, Herald, Ambassador: 2 ranks less than liege, but not below knight. May also be filled downrank. May be filled uprank only if multiple positions held.
 
Originally posted by Aramis:
Each Noble's court will have several officer positions of lesser noble ranks, also for career nobles.
I pepper my Imperium with different noble offices as well, a symptom of playing way too much Kingmaker back in the day, I think. ;)
 
Here is my take.
The Emperor and Moot decide regularly the policy for given sectors. It is clear that the Moot "advises" the Emperor, but it is not certain what "advising" means, and deliberate vagueness seems to be a common technique in the Imperial system.
I take it that a common manner is the Vilani "consensus election" described by Captain Grant(interestingly I thought of the idea myself separately-it is strange how often Traveller fits with my personal imagination)-which while not the same as a Terran style "mathematical election"(majority or plurality rules-the system most in favor in Terran states in the twentieth century) is an amiable and reasonable foundation for society. Sometimes the Emperor will rule by fiat particularly on a manner that specifically concerns him. And sometimes it will be somewhere in between. It is an oligarchy rather then a true dictatorship-oligarchy is really the default system of government, because a true dictator can only rule if he is incredibly strongwilled or if he deliberatly encourages incompetance, ineffenciency or fear; and a real democracy only works at the city-state level as most people have more important things to do. In a way the Emperors relationship to the Moot is analagous to the Imperiums relationship to it's member worlds-the Emperor is all powerful at any given momment but he must chose those given momments with care. The Imperium is in fact a well organised structure with hidden checks and balences that have come from centuries of rule.
In any case the Emperor & Moot, or Emperor alone or Emperor with personal council, seldom decide specific matters. What they do is send a General Policy Decree to each sector Duke at regular times to give. This is analogous to the orders of the Imperial Navy to a ship captain-the goals and outline of the means are stated in the orders. It is up to the underling to fulfill them. Each sector
duke would hand out his own GPD to subsector Dukes and so on down the line.
In the meantime depending on the Emperor abrupt modifications will be introduced from time to time.
A typical Emperor will keep a number of people on his staff picked to act as warrant holders at a momments notice. The number of warrant-holders and how often they are used will depend on the taste of a given Emperor and the situation at hand.
Occasionally an Emperor will take personal command of a given situation. That seems to be extremly rare as there are no examples of that actually happening given in canon, that I am aware of, at least not sense the civil wars. Still the potential is available.
The Imperium is a unique system combining the flexibility of personal rule with the stability of rule-of-law and check-and-balence in a manner which cannot really be constructed but must evolve over time. It is no wonder that it has been so successful.
 
Originally posted by jatay3:
... and deliberate vagueness seems to be a common technique in the Imperial system.
Jatay,

Not just the Imperial system. Google 'British constitution' for a real world example.

... described by Captain Grant...
Who?

... (interestingly I thought of the idea myself separately-it is strange how often Traveller fits with my personal imagination)...
Well, I wouldn't go that far especially considering the trouble you've had grasping the nature of the OTU in several threads both here and at SJGames. Your inability to understand how the canonical Sword Worlds military works was one example. Your belief that the Ziru Sirka-era Vilani wouldn't have a diplomatic tradition was another. The trouble usually occurs when a possible answer falls beyond the narrow limits of what you view as plausible or outside the few real world examples with which you are familiar.

Occasionally an Emperor will take personal command of a given situation. That seems to be extremly rare as there are no examples of that actually happening given in canon, that I am aware of, at least not sense the civil wars.
There are several examples and no deep or extensive knowledge of canonical history is necessary to quickly produce a few. Margaret II personally withdrew the Solomani Autonomous Region's charter and personally directed the re-assimilation of worlds within that region. Her heir, Styryx was so focussed personally on continuing Margaret's policies and preparing for the Rim War he knew would be the result that he mismanaged the 3rd Frontier War that he was forced to abdicate. Strephon's personal involvement in the Longbow projects is well known as it kept him from being gunned down in the Throne Room.


Have fun,
Bill
 
Captain Grant is from a sideline in "Nobles".And was quoted earlier in the thread.

And "my inability to grasp" your interpretation of canon is not the same as my alledged inability to grasp canon, which is open to several interpretations, so please be civil. And please be civil in any case-the Vilani will not conquer the Earth if I make a mistake, OK.

What I meant by taking personal command, was the Emperor going out and acting as his own warrant-holder, not simply making a policy adjustment from Capital.

And I am aware of the existance of the British
Constitution by the way.
 
. Your belief that the Ziru Sirka-era Vilani wouldn't have a diplomatic tradition was another. The trouble usually occurs when a possible answer falls beyond the narrow limits of
----------------------------------
And my belief is that the Ziru Saku would have a Diplomatic tradition far different from Terra's, because it is based on different assumptions about the nature of the state. Not that it wouldn't have any diplomatic tradition.
 
Well, I wouldn't go that far especially considering the trouble you've had grasping the nature of the OTU in several threads both here and at SJGames. Your inability to understand how the canonical Sword Worlds military works was one example. Your belief that the Ziru Sirka-era Vilani wouldn't have a diplomatic tradition was another. The trouble usually occurs when a possible answer falls beyond the narrow limits of what you view as plausible or outside the few real world examples with which you are familiar.
---------------------------
By the way your fixation on what I posted in the past is odd-I disaggreed with you, I did not murder your brother.
 
Originally posted by jatay3:
By the way your fixation on what I posted in the past is odd-I disaggreed with you, I did not murder your brother.
Jatay,

I merely found it odd that you could seriously type "... how often Traveller fits with my personal imagination" when your personal imagination demonstrably does not fit Traveller in several very basic ways.

Your statement was so very odd that I commented on it, that's all.

Your ideas on how the Moot and Imperial government generally mirror the canonical information available. I think that, if you haven't yet read GT:Nobles, you'll find it very interesting.

I also believe that you will find the 'unwritten' British 'consitution' very interesting as it can give you examples about how 'vague' or 'concensus derived' policy making mechanisms can work in a stable government across long periods of time.


Have fun,
Bill
 
By the way your fixation on what I posted in the past is odd-I disaggreed with you, I did not murder your brother. Jatay,

I merely found it odd that you could seriously type "... how often Traveller fits with my personal imagination" when your personal imagination demonstrably does not fit Traveller in several very basic ways.

Your statement was so very odd that I commented on it, that's all.

Your ideas on how the Moot and Imperial government generally mirror the canonical information available. I think that, if you haven't yet read GT:Nobles, you'll find it very interesting.

I also believe that you will find the 'unwritten' British 'consitution' very interesting as it can give you examples about how 'vague' or 'concensus derived' policy making mechanisms can work in a stable government across long periods of time.


Have fun,
Bill
-----------------------
it does not "demonstrably not fit" as your interpretations are just as much interpretation as mine and based on about the same degree of evidance or lack thereof. And even if it did "demonstrably not fit" that would not be contradictory to the claim that it did fit on other occasions.
I did read Nobles(that is as I said where the quote from Captain Grant is from), and I am quite fammiliar with the British Constitution.
In any case would you be so kind as to forget your disaggreement with me on the nature of the SWC? You sound like a Swordie ideologue. The SWC is not your home and you have no personal stake in the interpretation of it's constitution or lack thereof.
Can you please leave threads within there own threads?
 
Commander William Grant(Nobles p.5)describes the process well:
"There is an art to leading Vilani-you wait while your underlings hash things out, watch for the emerging consensus, and then issue corresponding dictates as if they were entirely your own idea. Everyone goes to work happy."
_________________________________________
that is the quote from capt grant from the beginning of the thread, by the way.
 
Originally posted by jatay3:
it does not "demonstrably not fit" as your interpretations are just as much interpretation as mine and based on about the same degree of evidance or lack thereof.
Jatay,

I'm sorry but that is not the case.

You could not quite understand how the Sword World Confederation could work as described in canon and so proposed a very different sort of Confederation, one with a larger, full time, wholly confederate military. That is not a different 'interpretation' of canonical facts, that is a 'refutation' of canonical facts. The two are very different things.

Hans, myself, and others then showed you how the canonical story could work if you were aware of more real world examples and gave yourself more 'room' to work in. Whether or not that would work IYTU is of little consequence. What matters is that your claim that the OTU Confederation could not work was incorrect.

You are free to interpret the OTU for YTU in any fashion that pleases you. However, when you claim that an aspect of the OTU doesn't work, you'd better be prepared to defend that claim. Merely claiming that an aspect of the OTU is implausible because it fails to meet your narrow experiences or falls outside the few real world examples you're familiar with does not turn the trick.

... and I am quite fammiliar with the British Constitution.
I'm glad to hear that. It is a real world example that bolsters your ideas about how the Emperor and the Moot govern the Imperium. Ideas with which I am in general agreement by the way. I am agreeing with you here and suggested a few real world and OTU examples to back your ideas.

In any case would you be so kind as to forget your disaggreement with me on the nature of the SWC? You sound like a Swordie ideologue. The SWC is not your home and you have no personal stake in the interpretation of it's constitution or lack thereof. Can you please leave threads within there own threads?
Sorry, no. And no for two reasons.

First, if I have no personal 'stake' in the Confederation, neither do you. What's more, your claim that the Confederation doesn't 'work' in the OTU is demostrably false. No one is taking exception with your ideas for YTU, it's when you extend them to the OTU that people have a problem.

Second, the earlier threads you participated in cannot be ignored because they are part of your Traveller 'resume'. Like a criminal's arrest record or a researcher's list of published papers, what you post now is seen through the lens of what you posted earlier. If you have made unsupported claims in the past about the plausibility of various aspects of the OTU - and you have - , your newer claims regarding the OTU will be examined carefully in the light of your older claims.

Finally, I know I and others have made this suggestion to you both here and at SJGames but you really need to begin formatting your posts in a more normal fashion besides handling quotes and responses in a manner more consistent with general practices.

Monoblocs of text which lack paragraphs, capitalization, and punctuation along with egregious spelling errors mean that your posts are skipped over more than they are read. Making matters worse, your habit of 'cutting & pasting' entire previous posts and then not differentiating them in any real fashion from your response also means that your posts are skipped more than read. The same holds true for your habit of responding to one post with several posts.

How you say something is just as important as what you are saying. You have usually good ideas and intriguing insights. Sadly, they do not find as wide an audience as they should because of your lackadasical posting style. If you can't be bothered to compose your posts in a style that aids a potential reader, why should any reader bother with your posts?

Just my 0.02 Cr.

And, make it clear, I am in general agreement with your ideas concerning the Moot and Emperor.


Have fun,
Bill
 
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