Economic Disaster
- Thread starter parmasson
- Start date
Only by having some other equally disruptive force applied to shatter the Imperium's internal solidity.
Dropping the ability to jump from "consistent" to "If you're lucky" by some means would do it. Say, 1 in 6 jumps is successful at max rated; the rest spend the fuel, and simply fizzle.
Perhaps allow a below-max a 2 in 6....
Call it some jumpspace physics experiment gone horribly overly effective... and awry...
The Empress wave holds similar promise, but less likely to be effective unless YTU holds lots of psis who are untrained but subject to it.
Dropping the ability to jump from "consistent" to "If you're lucky" by some means would do it. Say, 1 in 6 jumps is successful at max rated; the rest spend the fuel, and simply fizzle.
Perhaps allow a below-max a 2 in 6....
Call it some jumpspace physics experiment gone horribly overly effective... and awry...
The Empress wave holds similar promise, but less likely to be effective unless YTU holds lots of psis who are untrained but subject to it.
Only by having some other equally disruptive force applied to shatter the Imperium's internal solidity.
Dropping the ability to jump from "consistent" to "If you're lucky" by some means would do it. Say, 1 in 6 jumps is successful at max rated; the rest spend the fuel, and simply fizzle.
Perhaps allow a below-max a 2 in 6....
Call it some jumpspace physics experiment gone horribly overly effective... and awry...
The Empress wave holds similar promise, but less likely to be effective unless YTU holds lots of psis who are untrained but subject to it.
Dropping the ability to jump from "consistent" to "If you're lucky" by some means would do it. Say, 1 in 6 jumps is successful at max rated; the rest spend the fuel, and simply fizzle.
Perhaps allow a below-max a 2 in 6....
Call it some jumpspace physics experiment gone horribly overly effective... and awry...
The Empress wave holds similar promise, but less likely to be effective unless YTU holds lots of psis who are untrained but subject to it.
Only by having some other equally disruptive force applied to shatter the Imperium's internal solidity.
Dropping the ability to jump from "consistent" to "If you're lucky" by some means would do it. Say, 1 in 6 jumps is successful at max rated; the rest spend the fuel, and simply fizzle.
Perhaps allow a below-max a 2 in 6....
Call it some jumpspace physics experiment gone horribly overly effective... and awry...
The Empress wave holds similar promise, but less likely to be effective unless YTU holds lots of psis who are untrained but subject to it.
Dropping the ability to jump from "consistent" to "If you're lucky" by some means would do it. Say, 1 in 6 jumps is successful at max rated; the rest spend the fuel, and simply fizzle.
Perhaps allow a below-max a 2 in 6....
Call it some jumpspace physics experiment gone horribly overly effective... and awry...
The Empress wave holds similar promise, but less likely to be effective unless YTU holds lots of psis who are untrained but subject to it.
I'd say "it depends". How corrupt and stagnant is the Imperium in your version of the OTU? How much internal bickering exists between the various factions of nobility? How dissatisfied of the situation are the masses? What is the economic situation?
In Proto-Traveller, a collapse of the Imperium is possible, but more likely due to a popular revolution than due to a "palace revolution" or due to "pure" economical collapse. In Proto-Traveller, the Fifth Frontier War, if prolonged into a messy and bloody standoff, might spark a revolt in the Marches, where the economical toll of such a prolonged war would be most heavily felt, especially by the masses, who are going to get over-taxed, and by the rank-and-file soldiers who will be angered at having to fight and die a in such a war (think nearly every side in WWI, the USA in Vietnam, or the USSR in Afganistan).
Also, you could always have the Solomani open a second front against the Imperium during the Fifth Frontier war, which will have a huge military and economical toll.
In a variant MT, where Dulinor seizes power rather than fleeing the Capital after removing Strephon, his reforms could very well trigger a revolution, or a civil war - they will awaken the masses' appetite for a thorough system-change (far more thorough than Dulinor would intend), and will, on the other hand, scare the living hell out of the more conservative parts of the Noble class.
Remember, every collapse and every revolution needs both pre-conditions (stagnation, economical issues, factionalism among the ruling classes, dissatisfied masses and so on) and a trigger.
I'd say "it depends". How corrupt and stagnant is the Imperium in your version of the OTU? How much internal bickering exists between the various factions of nobility? How dissatisfied of the situation are the masses? What is the economic situation?
In Proto-Traveller, a collapse of the Imperium is possible, but more likely due to a popular revolution than due to a "palace revolution" or due to "pure" economical collapse. In Proto-Traveller, the Fifth Frontier War, if prolonged into a messy and bloody standoff, might spark a revolt in the Marches, where the economical toll of such a prolonged war would be most heavily felt, especially by the masses, who are going to get over-taxed, and by the rank-and-file soldiers who will be angered at having to fight and die a in such a war (think nearly every side in WWI, the USA in Vietnam, or the USSR in Afganistan).
Also, you could always have the Solomani open a second front against the Imperium during the Fifth Frontier war, which will have a huge military and economical toll.
In a variant MT, where Dulinor seizes power rather than fleeing the Capital after removing Strephon, his reforms could very well trigger a revolution, or a civil war - they will awaken the masses' appetite for a thorough system-change (far more thorough than Dulinor would intend), and will, on the other hand, scare the living hell out of the more conservative parts of the Noble class.
Remember, every collapse and every revolution needs both pre-conditions (stagnation, economical issues, factionalism among the ruling classes, dissatisfied masses and so on) and a trigger.
I'd say "it depends". How corrupt and stagnant is the Imperium in your version of the OTU? How much internal bickering exists between the various factions of nobility? How dissatisfied of the situation are the masses? What is the economic situation?
In Proto-Traveller, a collapse of the Imperium is possible, but more likely due to a popular revolution than due to a "palace revolution" or due to "pure" economical collapse. In Proto-Traveller, the Fifth Frontier War, if prolonged into a messy and bloody standoff, might spark a revolt in the Marches, where the economical toll of such a prolonged war would be most heavily felt, especially by the masses, who are going to get over-taxed, and by the rank-and-file soldiers who will be angered at having to fight and die a in such a war (think nearly every side in WWI, the USA in Vietnam, or the USSR in Afganistan).
Also, you could always have the Solomani open a second front against the Imperium during the Fifth Frontier war, which will have a huge military and economical toll.
In a variant MT, where Dulinor seizes power rather than fleeing the Capital after removing Strephon, his reforms could very well trigger a revolution, or a civil war - they will awaken the masses' appetite for a thorough system-change (far more thorough than Dulinor would intend), and will, on the other hand, scare the living hell out of the more conservative parts of the Noble class.
Remember, every collapse and every revolution needs both pre-conditions (stagnation, economical issues, factionalism among the ruling classes, dissatisfied masses and so on) and a trigger.
P
Pickles
Guest
I wonder what effect the collapse of the Imperial banking system woud have? Say, if megacorps engaged in too much currency speculation, or it was revealed that 80% of imperial credits in circulation were actually forgeries ...
Would the imperial economy collapse, or just re-adjust to a lower level as local currencies and exchange systems struggled to compensate?
IMO a 'hard times' style collapse would be unlikely through economic reasons alone. I've never seen the OTU as a trading empire, as interstellar trade is likely to be too small in relation to intra-system trade to have much effect on local economies.
Would the imperial economy collapse, or just re-adjust to a lower level as local currencies and exchange systems struggled to compensate?
IMO a 'hard times' style collapse would be unlikely through economic reasons alone. I've never seen the OTU as a trading empire, as interstellar trade is likely to be too small in relation to intra-system trade to have much effect on local economies.
P
Pickles
Guest
I wonder what effect the collapse of the Imperial banking system woud have? Say, if megacorps engaged in too much currency speculation, or it was revealed that 80% of imperial credits in circulation were actually forgeries ...
Would the imperial economy collapse, or just re-adjust to a lower level as local currencies and exchange systems struggled to compensate?
IMO a 'hard times' style collapse would be unlikely through economic reasons alone. I've never seen the OTU as a trading empire, as interstellar trade is likely to be too small in relation to intra-system trade to have much effect on local economies.
Would the imperial economy collapse, or just re-adjust to a lower level as local currencies and exchange systems struggled to compensate?
IMO a 'hard times' style collapse would be unlikely through economic reasons alone. I've never seen the OTU as a trading empire, as interstellar trade is likely to be too small in relation to intra-system trade to have much effect on local economies.
P
Pickles
Guest
I wonder what effect the collapse of the Imperial banking system woud have? Say, if megacorps engaged in too much currency speculation, or it was revealed that 80% of imperial credits in circulation were actually forgeries ...
Would the imperial economy collapse, or just re-adjust to a lower level as local currencies and exchange systems struggled to compensate?
IMO a 'hard times' style collapse would be unlikely through economic reasons alone. I've never seen the OTU as a trading empire, as interstellar trade is likely to be too small in relation to intra-system trade to have much effect on local economies.
Would the imperial economy collapse, or just re-adjust to a lower level as local currencies and exchange systems struggled to compensate?
IMO a 'hard times' style collapse would be unlikely through economic reasons alone. I've never seen the OTU as a trading empire, as interstellar trade is likely to be too small in relation to intra-system trade to have much effect on local economies.
In extreme cases of a monetary disaster, the Imperial economy might collapse (though, initially, it will be not as bad as MT's Hard Times, due to the lack of wartime destruction). The real question is, however, what will trigger such a collapse? Sure, any market system has ups and downs, including very sharp ups and very deep downs, but you'd probably need some serious trigger for a full economical collapse.
[QB]
Remember that while intra-system trade might be (in some cases) far bigger in volume than the inter-stellar trade, the vast varieties in TLs, combined with local specialization in certain goods (every large-scale market produces goods where it is the cheapest to do so), will mean that a collapse of interstellar trade will cause scarcity in many required components for the local economies, especially high-tech ones. It will also mean that some of the highest-profit industries on most worlds will be unable to market their products (those intended for export). Just ask yourself what will happen on Earth today if the global economy collapses - the nations are tied into each other in many, many trade connections. Past TL5, there isn't such a thing as a fully economically independent nation in the global market; past TL9 or TL10, there won't be such a thing as a fully independant world in the Imperial interstellar market.
In extreme cases of a monetary disaster, the Imperial economy might collapse (though, initially, it will be not as bad as MT's Hard Times, due to the lack of wartime destruction). The real question is, however, what will trigger such a collapse? Sure, any market system has ups and downs, including very sharp ups and very deep downs, but you'd probably need some serious trigger for a full economical collapse.
[QB]
Remember that while intra-system trade might be (in some cases) far bigger in volume than the inter-stellar trade, the vast varieties in TLs, combined with local specialization in certain goods (every large-scale market produces goods where it is the cheapest to do so), will mean that a collapse of interstellar trade will cause scarcity in many required components for the local economies, especially high-tech ones. It will also mean that some of the highest-profit industries on most worlds will be unable to market their products (those intended for export). Just ask yourself what will happen on Earth today if the global economy collapses - the nations are tied into each other in many, many trade connections. Past TL5, there isn't such a thing as a fully economically independent nation in the global market; past TL9 or TL10, there won't be such a thing as a fully independant world in the Imperial interstellar market.
In extreme cases of a monetary disaster, the Imperial economy might collapse (though, initially, it will be not as bad as MT's Hard Times, due to the lack of wartime destruction). The real question is, however, what will trigger such a collapse? Sure, any market system has ups and downs, including very sharp ups and very deep downs, but you'd probably need some serious trigger for a full economical collapse.
[QB]
Remember that while intra-system trade might be (in some cases) far bigger in volume than the inter-stellar trade, the vast varieties in TLs, combined with local specialization in certain goods (every large-scale market produces goods where it is the cheapest to do so), will mean that a collapse of interstellar trade will cause scarcity in many required components for the local economies, especially high-tech ones. It will also mean that some of the highest-profit industries on most worlds will be unable to market their products (those intended for export). Just ask yourself what will happen on Earth today if the global economy collapses - the nations are tied into each other in many, many trade connections. Past TL5, there isn't such a thing as a fully economically independent nation in the global market; past TL9 or TL10, there won't be such a thing as a fully independant world in the Imperial interstellar market.
P
Pickles
Guest
I agree, there would be a considerable downwards adjustment in many local tech levels, but I'm not sure it would be serious enough to cause a 'hard times' collapse. After all, worlds should still be able to keep up a reasonable level of interstellar contact at TL 9-10. I think the hardest-hit would be the military and entertainment industries, and possibly medicine - all those sectors elying on cutting edge technology.
Back to the original question, though - I have to admit it's pretty difficult to think of an event which could cause such a calamity over what is, after all, a fairly flexible and loosely-organised interstellar polity.
Back to the original question, though - I have to admit it's pretty difficult to think of an event which could cause such a calamity over what is, after all, a fairly flexible and loosely-organised interstellar polity.
P
Pickles
Guest
I agree, there would be a considerable downwards adjustment in many local tech levels, but I'm not sure it would be serious enough to cause a 'hard times' collapse. After all, worlds should still be able to keep up a reasonable level of interstellar contact at TL 9-10. I think the hardest-hit would be the military and entertainment industries, and possibly medicine - all those sectors elying on cutting edge technology.
Back to the original question, though - I have to admit it's pretty difficult to think of an event which could cause such a calamity over what is, after all, a fairly flexible and loosely-organised interstellar polity.
Back to the original question, though - I have to admit it's pretty difficult to think of an event which could cause such a calamity over what is, after all, a fairly flexible and loosely-organised interstellar polity.
P
Pickles
Guest
I agree, there would be a considerable downwards adjustment in many local tech levels, but I'm not sure it would be serious enough to cause a 'hard times' collapse. After all, worlds should still be able to keep up a reasonable level of interstellar contact at TL 9-10. I think the hardest-hit would be the military and entertainment industries, and possibly medicine - all those sectors elying on cutting edge technology.
Back to the original question, though - I have to admit it's pretty difficult to think of an event which could cause such a calamity over what is, after all, a fairly flexible and loosely-organised interstellar polity.
Back to the original question, though - I have to admit it's pretty difficult to think of an event which could cause such a calamity over what is, after all, a fairly flexible and loosely-organised interstellar polity.
Remember the snowball-effect and ripple-effects of economic collapses - sure, the initial change in actual economical conditions could, from an objective point of view, be quite survivable; but the collapse of several high-profit industries on economicall-important worlds could trigger a chain of events that would do far more damage. For example, think of the major banks financing these key industries; when these industries go bankrupt, it will hit these banks very hard, and might cause them to go bankrupt themselves, or, for the very least, increase the interests rates for their other customers (which will cause a further recession by making investments far more expensive) in order to compensate. Or, investors might panic (a common phenomenon during economical downturns) and start selling corporate stocks en-masse, which might cause the collapse of many stock-exchanges. Or workers fired en-masse from bankrupt industries might revolt in demand for work, or, atleast, means of sustainance. Or all three combined. Or more.
Another fact of the Imperial system is given on Hard Times, p.57: the bigger nobles are the major corp stockholders. So an economic collapse of several key industries might trigger a civil war...
While I agree that the Imperium is somewhat decentralized (due to the long communication times), most planetary economies within its borders had evolved for centuries in an environment where massive-volume interstellar shipment was widely available; thus, planets will specialize alot, especially in the highly-developed core areas, and interstellar economic ties would go very deep. Remove these ties, and massive economical damage results.
Remember the snowball-effect and ripple-effects of economic collapses - sure, the initial change in actual economical conditions could, from an objective point of view, be quite survivable; but the collapse of several high-profit industries on economicall-important worlds could trigger a chain of events that would do far more damage. For example, think of the major banks financing these key industries; when these industries go bankrupt, it will hit these banks very hard, and might cause them to go bankrupt themselves, or, for the very least, increase the interests rates for their other customers (which will cause a further recession by making investments far more expensive) in order to compensate. Or, investors might panic (a common phenomenon during economical downturns) and start selling corporate stocks en-masse, which might cause the collapse of many stock-exchanges. Or workers fired en-masse from bankrupt industries might revolt in demand for work, or, atleast, means of sustainance. Or all three combined. Or more.
Another fact of the Imperial system is given on Hard Times, p.57: the bigger nobles are the major corp stockholders. So an economic collapse of several key industries might trigger a civil war...
While I agree that the Imperium is somewhat decentralized (due to the long communication times), most planetary economies within its borders had evolved for centuries in an environment where massive-volume interstellar shipment was widely available; thus, planets will specialize alot, especially in the highly-developed core areas, and interstellar economic ties would go very deep. Remove these ties, and massive economical damage results.
