Does the Term "Aslan Border Wars" Make Sense?

[rancke]

I think the Long Night hit Sylea and Vland so hard because those world economies were so complex and interdependent on interstellar trade. It was like a huge tower of cards.

Don't get me wrong, I've no problem with some worlds decivilizing during the Long Night. What puzzles me is to explain a world decivilizing down to TL9 and then halting the decline there.

Note: This isn't a "couldn't possible happen" thing. It is a "what an amazing coincidence that it happened twice" thing.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Looking in other sources, tho', the Aslan Border Wars would have to have affected the Easter Concord - because they were on the border in question at the time.

How do you figure that? The Easter Concord was over 60 parsecs from the Hierate, on the far side of several Magyar states.

It could have gotten involved even at that distance, just as the OEU is expressly said to have gotten involved at much the same distance, but there's no 'have to' that I can spot and no statements (that I'm aware of) that it did.


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

I took a look through GURPS Alien Races 2 book, and here's the term I remembered:

The area between the Hierate and the Solomani Confederation, too diffuse and mixed to be called a border, is referred to by the military and social scientists as “the Aslan/Human interface”; the people call it “the buffer.”

That book also has one of my favorite descriptions of the Border Wars:

The popular picture of these wars is a straightforward conflict between the two races, but the truth is more complex. Where Aslan clans had already absorbed some Human worlds, their populations fought as vassals of their overlord, sometimes against other Humans. Solomani splinter states hired Aslan ihatei to fight for them in exchange for land. Solomani also encouraged inter-clan warfare to relieve pressure against them, by engineering incidents or supplying ships and weapons to one side or the other. Likewise, clans played off rival Human states against each other, distracting them with pinprick raids using Human vassals flying false colors.

The effect was that the border between Aslan and Humans moved slowly back and forth over the generations, a few systems at a time, and grew gradually more vague and blurred, with the races’ territories shading gently into each other rather than having a sharply defined border.

So, I think you are absolutely right to suggest that the term "Aslan Border Wars" is a misnomer, but "Series of Disconnected Low-Intensity Conflicts Along the Aslan/Human Interface" doesn't have quite the same ring.

 

[Garnfellow]

To get back to your original questions:

Who were the signatories to the Peace of Dark Nebula, exactly?

I don't think this is ever explicitly stated anywhere. We know the treaty was between several important Aslan clans and some human pocket empires in the region.

The participating Aslan clans might have been essentially the same ones that signed the Peace of Ftahalr: Hrawoao, Khaukheairl, Tralyeaeawi, and Yerlyaruiwo.

The human polities are trickier, since many of the human interstellar states that were around in 212 would have by 1105 collapsed, changed, or been absorbed by the Imperium or Solomani Confederation.

In Magyar, the Wuan Technology Association or some antecedent would be possible.

In Reaver's Deep, I suspect that if any of these polities were around in 212 they or an antecedent state might have been signatories: Carrillian Assembly, Principality of Caledon, Carter Technocracy, Confederation of Duncinae, Grand Duchy of Marlheim, Islaiat Dominate, or the Lanyard Colonies.

I very much doubt the Old Earth Union was part of the Treaty in 212.

 

[elbmc1969]

Where did you read that? The¨version I know of says that the Old Earth Union became a client state of the Imperium at some time prior to the war. When the OEU became involved in renewed war with the Aslan, the Imperium tried to mediate, only to be challenged to answer for the actions of what the Aslan perceived as their vassal, the OEU.

Misinterpreting Solomani & Aslan, p. 24. The timing of the strengthening of the Starlane, the location of the fighting, and the date of the Peace of Ftahair all fit together. Of course, p. 63 explains that "The border between Reaver's Deep and Daibei Sectors was the middle ground. The envoys decided that our objective was to capture Kafal (1539 Daibei), while the Imperium had to capture Gavza (1117 Reaver's Deep)."

 

[Garnfellow]

When did the OEU become a vassal of the Imperium, if they actually did? Or is that the Aslan interpretation of the OEU asking the Imperium for military and diplomatic aid?

How much had the OEU expanded by 374? A government of seventeen worlds would have quite a problem fighting a war a sector and a half away (roughly 50 parsecs)

The historical descriptions of the OEU in DGP's Solomani and Aslan are hard to reconcile. One thing I am confident about is that the OEU's borders did not touch the Hierate's in 374, though I suppose their sphere of influence might have reached that far. The MGT Alien: Solomani and Solomani Rim books try to reconcile many of the dates here, and maybe we can fit them all together.

The Union [founded in -1110] traded with the Dingir League, Vegan Polity and Arcturus Federation but it also considered itself the true heir to the old Terran Confederation and this hubris occasionally led its leaders into military adventurism. The democratic governments and populist leaders of Terra were prone to occasional spasms
of popular nationalism and martial sentiment. The Union sent small expeditionary forces to spinward into Magyar sector and beyond, where they intervened on behalf of Solomani that were threatened by Aslan expansionism.

* * * * *

The Old Earth Union’s militaristic period ended in -420 when a civil war on Terra forced militarist leaders forced into exile. After that the Union followed a less belligerent path (6).

In 550 the Vegan Polity and in 582-583 the Dingir League and Arcturus Federation all succumbed to intense economic and diplomatic pressure and joined the Imperium, the Vegans doing so with great trepidation. The Old Earth Union’s strong republican traditions and sense of cultural identity made its population equally reluctant. Old Earth Union leaders even flirted with the idea of forming their own confederation in consort with the Bootean League or independent polities in nearby Alpha Crucis. The risk such a move might lead to hostilities with the Imperium and the lack of any unifying ideology that could bind together these disparate Solomani states ended that dream. In 588 a sustained public relations offensive in combination with substantial economic inducements convinced the Old Earth Union’s worlds to vote to join the Imperium.

The Old Earth Union was the last of the Rim States to join the Imperium (7).

During the Long Night, there was sporadic trade along the Rim Main with worlds of the Dingir League and Old Earth Union but the worlds were also menaced by reaver raids from Magyar sector. Despite occasional military forays – mainly the Dingir League going into the subsector to destroy reaver or pirate bases – the region remained an isolated frontier until around 250 when regular trade resumed. Most worlds [of Albadawi subsector] established commercial ties with the Old Earth Union and joined the Imperium with some trepidation after it was dissolved (80).

 

[Garnfellow]

There's also this very useful passage from the MGT Alien: Solomani book:

Intense diplomatic, economic and public relations pressure were applied to the Rim States but this effort was interrupted by other difficulties. It was not until 426 that the Easter Concord accepted Imperial membership. Terra did not join until 588 via a popular referendum that dissolved the Old Earth Union and accepted Imperial rule. Solomani states in Alpha Crucis and Magyar sectors joined soon afterward following Terra’s example. Some distant Solomani worlds in regions beyond Terra continued to remain independent.

* * * * *

In the midst of its diplomatic effort to win over the Rim, the Imperium ran into further Solomani-centred problems. The Scout Service discovered the existence of the Solomani pocket empires that lay beyond the spinward borders of the old Ziru Sirka in Reaver’s Deep and Dark Nebula. These isolated Solomani colonies were still embroiled in the on-again, off-again struggle of the Aslan Border Wars. The beleaguered colonials of Reaver’s Deep, under siege by increasingly powerful Hierate clans, agreed to Imperial hegemony in exchange for military protection.

One-sided encounters with the huge warships and superior military technology of the Imperium eventually forced the Aslan clans to negotiate the Peace of Ftahalr in 380. This treaty ended the Aslan Border Wars, establishing a 30-parsec buffer zone between the two powers. The Peace was not welcomed by all Solomani colonials. Many would have preferred a more aggressive Imperial policy and were disappointed that the Imperium did not carry the war into Aslan space to regain their lost worlds. Due to lacklustre Imperial support, some Solomani worlds within Magyar sector refused to join the Imperium (61-62).

 

[Garnfellow]

So taken altogether, here's my timeline of relevant events as drawn from the MGT books:

Year	Event	Source
-1999	The Aslan develop the stardrive at early TL 7, before they even mastered gravatic manipulation technology.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 57.
-1980	First contact between Aslan and humans (Hisol’I).	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
-1900 c	Last major wave of ethnic and religious migration from Terra.	Alien Module 5 - Solomani, MP, 2012, p. 130.
-1850	Long Night begins in Solomani Rim as contact is lost with the capital on Hub (Massilia 0402).	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 13.
-1776	The Long Night begins for humaniti.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
-1699 c	The Aslan develop J-2 technology.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 58.
-1690	Terra and her nearest colonies form a loose corporate trade association, the Terran Mercantile Community.	Alien Module 5 - Solomani, MP, 2012, p. 59.
-1663	A wave of Aslan immigrants from Magyar sector arrive on Sarmaty (Solomani Rim 0217) and settle several unclaimed islands.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 66.
-1500 c	Reaver fleets out of Magyar sector and land-hungry Aslan ihatei begin raiding the Solomani Rim.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 6.
-1499	The Aslan philosopher Aewier convinces the clans that treating sophonts as prey is rukhiywe (un-Aslan) behaviour.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 58.
-1200 c	The Terran Merchantile Community begins to pull back into Sol subsector.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 5.
-1118	A large reaver fleet is defeated at Jarslav (Solomani Rim 0123) by the Dingir League aided by ships from the Terran Mercantile Community.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 6.
-1118	Aslan Border Wars begin.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
-1110	The Terran Mercantile Community reorganizes into an interstellar state known as the Old Earth Union.	Alien Module 5 - Solomani, MP, 2012, p. 60.
-1100 c	The raids on the Solomani Rim from reaver fleets out of Magyar sector and land-hungry Aslan ihatei draw to an end.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 6.
-1044	First Aslan crossing of Great Rift.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
-574	The Old Earth Union becomes embroiled in a brief but bloody war with its former ally the Dingir League over the border world Iilike (Solomani Rim 1429).	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 6.
-450 c	The Old Earth Union reopens trade with the Near Boötes Cluster.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 6.
-450	Old Earth Union attempts expansion into Capella and Gemini.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 13.
-430	Several worlds in Capella and Gemini subsectors form the Boötean League.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 13.
-420	A civil war on Terra (Solomani Rim 1827) forces militarist leaders into exile, ending the Old Earth Union’s militaristic period.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 6.
-100	The Arcturus Federation and the Old Earth Union begin developing ever-closer relations.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 6.
-63	Great Conclave begins.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
-7	Aslan Cultural Purge begins.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
0	Dawn: Foundation of the Third Imperium.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 14.
82	Over a third of the tsekho (starborn) faction of Aslan clans have abandoned their worlds and moved en masse to systems spinward and rimward of the Hierate.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 60.
82	Reform of Tlaukhu.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
100	Imperial scouts reach Solomani Rim sector.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 14.
130	Imperial scouts first venture into coreward regions of Alpha Crucis.	Alien Module 5 - Solomani, MP, 2012, p. 125.
134	Imperial scouts launch a second expedition into coreward regions of Alpha Crucis.	Alien Module 5 - Solomani, MP, 2012, p. 125.
170 c	Aslan raiders in Reaver’s Deep first encounter Third Imperium warships.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 60.
250 c	Regular trade resumes in Albadawi subsector of the Solomani Rim.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 80.
290	Aslan Cultural Purge ends.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
300	The Old Earth Union and the Arcturus Federation explore Arcturus subsector.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 14.
305	Easter Concord petitions to become an Imperial client state.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 14.
350 c	The worlds of Alderamin subsector in the Solomani Rim begin trading with the Third Imperium.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 64.
380	Peace of Ftahalr; Aslan Border Wars end.	Alien Module 1, Aslan, MP, 2009, p. 62.
400	Magyar and Dark Nebula sectors absorbed into Third Imperium.	Alien Module 5 - Solomani, MP, 2012, p. 76.
426	The Easter Concord joins the Third Imperium.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 7.
450	Jardin (Solomani Rim 0233) is colonized by a coalition of fracophone military adventurers and entrepreneurs from the Old Earth Union who wished to escape the latter’s expected assimilation into the Third Imperium.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 98.
501	Unification talks between Consolidation of Turin, Protectorate of Cthonia and Old Earth Union. Talks collapse over sovereignty issues.	Alien Module 5 - Solomani, MP, 2012, p. 131.
550 c	Most of the worlds of Alderamin subsector in the Solomani Rim are Imperial.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 64.
582	The Dingir League joins the Third Imperium.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 7.
583	The Arcturus Federation joins the Third Imperium.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 7.
588	The Old Earth Union’s worlds vote to join the Imperium.	Solomani Rim, MP, 2012, p. 7.

 

[rancke]

There's also this very useful passage from the MGT Alien: Solomani book:

One-sided encounters with the huge warships and superior military technology of the Imperium eventually forced the Aslan clans to negotiate the Peace of Ftahalr in 380.

This contradict previously published information. It wasn't huge Imperial warships roving 60 parsecs beyond the then-current Imperial border that made the Aslan sign the Peace of Ftahalr. It was losing a 'formal duel-war' with an Imperial admiral who dealt with the Aslan according to their own premises.

Quite apart from the pity it would be to lose that particular aspect of the interaction with the Aslan, the Imperium was at that time approaching but hadn't reached TL13, so its warships would not be much bigger nor much more powerful (if at all) than Aslan ships.

Admittedly it is possible, even likely, that the Imperium's size and might had already convinced the Aslan to make peace and agree to a buffer zone. In that case the duel-war would have been to decide just where the buffer zone were to be drawn.


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

I don't read the MGT passage as incompatible with the Solomani and Aslan Duel War at all. As you suggest, I think it's plausible that the Imperial technological advantage was enough to pressure the Aslan into proposing a Duel War to resolve the conflict. It's honorable and cunning: a ritualistic contest probably represented their best hope of triumphing over a enemy with superior tech.

 

[rancke]

I don't read the MGT passage as incompatible with the Solomani and Aslan Duel War at all. As you suggest, I think it's plausible that the Imperial technological advantage was enough to pressure the Aslan into proposing a Duel War to resolve the conflict. It's honorable and cunning: a ritualistic contest probably represented their best hope of triumphing over a enemy with superior tech.

If the tech is superior, which I beg leave to doubt. At best it would IMO be mature TL12 vs. borderline TL13.


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

If the tech is superior, which I beg leave to doubt. At best it would IMO be mature TL12 vs. borderline TL13.

Given its structure and history, I could see the Hierate as having far more widely diverse tech than the Imperium. The great clans would have the highest TL, but I could see it dropping off dramatically from there. The clans seem to use carefully guarded tech to maintain military superiority over internal rivals and vassals alike. I see the Border Wars as largely fought by the weakest, most marginalized clans. These are outsiders fighting for scraps with isolated human colonies. Otherwise, it's hard to explain why the Aslan didn't just roll over Reaver's Deep, Daibei, and Magyar.

Although this is my own interpolation, I see the initial Imperial/Aslan conflicts as pitting a large, highly structured and organized navy with slightly superior tech against small, disorganized forces with slightly inferior tech. It's not until the Imperium begin making inroads into the Deep that the truly powerful clans become engaged, right before the Duel War.

 

[rancke]

Given its structure and history, I could see the Hierate as having far more widely diverse tech than the Imperium.

Or much less variation, the disadvantaged clans having a tendency to lose out to the more technologically advanced clans. Unfortunately, the world design system is not able to take something like that into account, leaving us with a Classic Era Hierate where tech levels are pretty much distributed almost exactly like the Imperium's tech levels (except for the different maxima of 14 and 15). So we either ignore the evidence or accept that Hierate and Imperium has pretty much the same distribution of tech levels. Most unsatisfactory.

The great clans would have the highest TL, but I could see it dropping off dramatically from there.

Yes, and the Imperium's war was with four of the great clans (plus a handful of smaller ones). Hence my surmise that they would have tech levels to matchs the Imperium's.

The clans seem to use carefully guarded tech to maintain military superiority over internal rivals and vassals alike.

The whole carefully guarded technology trope seems to me to be totally implausible. Mature level 12 technology has been in existence for about three millenia by 280. Rivalry will have spurred the clans to pour resources into procuring TL12 textbooks and implementing level 12 technology, and the Aslan have had two thousand years to nose out people willing to sell.

I see the Border Wars as largely fought by the weakest, most marginalized clans. These are outsiders fighting for scraps with isolated human colonies. Otherwise, it's hard to explain why the Aslan didn't just roll over Reaver's Deep, Daibei, and Magyar.

"Luckily, the Aslan had come on the scene during the Long Night (342 to 2323 Aslan; -1776 to -30 Imperial) in human space: the era between the Second and Third Imperiums in which humaniti was splintered into many rival states. This was important, for the clans of the Hierate were never (and are not now) capable of acting in concert as a human empire could: clans each conduct wars on their own, sometimes with the assistance of others, sometimes without, but never with a sense of central purpose or unity."

[Alien Module 1: Aslan¹, p. 3]​

¹ The real one. :devil:​

Furthermore (and this is my own insight, not explicit canon), one should always remember that gaining new land is only the second most important priority of any clan lord; the most important is keeping the lands he already has. It follows from this that lands next door to his own is more valuable because he can use the same forces to protect them and to protect his core holdings. Lands further away require stationing units that are too far from the main holdings to get back in time to be any good in case of an attack. Also, once these colonies have grown strong enough to produce their own military units, they can help protect the core holdings.

So my take is that the Aslan didn't roll over Reaver's Deep, Daibei, and Magyar because the human pocket empires were strong enough to block them and because they really didn't want to commit enough resources to roll over anything, knowing full well that weakening their homelands would mean getting invaded and conquered by their neighbors.

Although this is my own interpolation, I see the initial Imperial/Aslan conflicts as pitting a large, highly structured and organized navy with slightly superior tech against small, disorganized forces with slightly inferior tech. It's not until the Imperium begin making inroads into the Deep that the truly powerful clans become engaged, right before the Duel War.

But the Imperium hadn't begun to make any inroads in the Deep. The midpoint between the Hierate and the Imperium was around the Daibei/Reaver's Deep border. That puts the Imperial border at the time somewhere near the Daibei/Diaspora border. There had been some expeditionary forces to the Deep, but not any permanent inroads made.


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

Or much less variation, the disadvantaged clans having a tendency to lose out to the more technologically advanced clans. Unfortunately, the world design system is not able to take something like that into account, leaving us with a Classic Era Hierate where tech levels are pretty much distributed almost exactly like the Imperium's tech levels (except for the different maxima of 14 and 15). So we either ignore the evidence or accept that Hierate and Imperium has pretty much the same distribution of tech levels. Most unsatisfactory.

OK, I accept that the Aslan and Imperium world tech levels have similar levels of distribution: which still means there are huge variations in TL on either side.

However, the Imperium sports a unified navy that has far less variation in tech. I don't think the Aslans have any military force comparable.

Yes, and the Imperium's war was with four of the great clans (plus a handful of smaller ones). Hence my surmise that they would have tech levels to matchs the Imperium's.

Nope. The four major clans and sixteen lesser clans adhere to the Treaty of Dark Nebular (212) right up until 374, when the Old Earth Union ship Griffin enters into a battle with an Aslan patrol in the Ikhaeal (Dark Nebula 2111) system. Then the Aslan start attacking ships of the Old Earth Union and Magyar states in "all-out war," even raiding as far trailing as into the Solomani Rim.

The Imperium then gets reluctantly pulled into this all-out war, first as a diplomats and then as participants in the Duel War, culminating in the Peace of Ftahalr.

Although this hot war from 374-380 is generally lumped in with the larger Aslan Border Wars, it really is a very distinct and different sort of conflict.

The MGT Aslan book states that Aslan raiders in Reaver’s Deep first encounter Third Imperium warships around 170. That leaves over 200 years where the Imperial Navy is skirmishing in Daibei and Reaver's Deep. (Or alternatively, only 42 years if the Treaty of Dark Nebula also halted hostilities there.)

Now this is my own insight, not explicit canon, but any Aslan/Imperial engagements between 170 and 374 were probably between well-armed Imperial navy forces and lower tech, rag-tag Aslan raiders.

The whole carefully guarded technology trope seems to me to be totally implausible. Mature level 12 technology has been in existence for about three millenia by 280. Rivalry will have spurred the clans to pour resources into procuring TL12 textbooks and implementing level 12 technology, and the Aslan have had two thousand years to nose out people willing to sell.

I disagree. I don't think TL 12 was as widely distributed across the Rule of Man as you describe. Think how long the Vilani went without J-3. In comparison, the Terrans only had it for a blink of an eye before Long Night begins.

If you're at TL 9 or 10, buying a used "iFixit Guide to J-3 Drives" holo does not make you suddenly TL 12. It doesn't even necessarily give you a 10- or even 50-year roadmap to develop the needed infrastructure. Imagine I timetravel to Earth circa 1800 with my iPhone. And let's say I even bring the owner's manual. How quickly would the natives be able to understand, reverse-engineer, and then manufacture a clone? Even if they did, would they be able to build cellular towers? Design a cellular network?

 

[rancke]

Nope. The four major clans and sixteen lesser clans adhere to the Treaty of Dark Nebular (212) right up until 374, when the Old Earth Union ship Griffin enters into a battle with an Aslan patrol in the Ikhaeal (Dark Nebula 2111) system. Then the Aslan start attacking ships of the Old Earth Union and Magyar states in "all-out war," even raiding as far trailing as into the Solomani Rim.

Sorry, my mistake. Somehow I'd put the Peace in 280 in my mind. Yes, by 380 the Imperial Navy would be fully TL13. A significant advantage over TL12, but not an insurmountable one.

I disagree. I don't think TL 12 was as widely distributed across the Rule of Man as you describe. Think how long the Vilani went without J-3. In comparison, the Terrans only had it for a blink of an eye before Long Night begins.

Why wouldn't it be? The RoM had 400 years to spread it.

If you're at TL 9 or 10, buying a used "iFixit Guide to J-3 Drives" holo does not make you suddenly TL 12.

No, but it puts you on the road towards it if you're motivated.

It doesn't even necessarily give you a 10- or even 50-year roadmap to develop the needed infrastructure.

One technical manual won't. A technical library would.

Imagine I timetravel to Earth circa 1800 with my iPhone. And let's say I even bring the owner's manual. How quickly would the natives be able to understand, reverse-engineer, and then manufacture a clone? Even if they did, would they be able to build cellular towers? Design a cellular network?

Probably a good deal less than 200 years. Definitely less than 2000 years. How long did it take the TL7 Aslan to reverse-entgineer a jump drive with nothing but one example to go on?


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

The Rebellion Sourcebook also has this bit on Daibei during the Aslan Border Wars:

During the Long Night, Daibei suffered as much as any other sector from the loss of trade and collapse of technology In addition, Daibei sector was located squarely on the frontier with the newly developing culture of the Aslan. Expanding Aslan clans moved into the sector and settled on many of its worlds. When human and other native races In the sector resisted, a series of low level raids known as the Aslan Border Wars (-1118 to 380) became the norm. Over more than a thousand years, the sector was subject to incessant Aslan raids and settlement, and in return the sector launched incessant raids into Aslan territory. Finally, In 380, the Third Imperium stabilized the frontier by imposing the Peace of Ftahalr on all of the major Aslan clans. Its provisions established a buffer zone 30 parsecs wide between Imperial and Aslan space and made neighboring Reaver's Deep sector a cosmopolitan Interstellar community. Under the provisions of the treaty, the Third Imperium also guaranteed
the safety and security of Daibei sector, pledging Imperial forces to ensure the matter (64).

 

[rancke]

"Squarely on the frontier" is a bit inaccurate. At the time Daibei was half of the territory between the Hierate and the Imperium, and the half farthest from the Hierate to boot. If the Aslans had trouble pushing into Reaver's Deep right next door, they should have had even more trouble pushing into Daibei 30 parsecs to trailing.


Hans

 

[Garnfellow]

"Squarely on the frontier" is a bit inaccurate. At the time Daibei was half of the territory between the Hierate and the Imperium, and the half farthest from the Hierate to boot. If the Aslans had trouble pushing into Reaver's Deep right next door, they should have had even more trouble pushing into Daibei 30 parsecs to trailing.

Yeah, that's pretty hard to reconcile. The only sources I have for Reaver's Deep are the two Gamelords' Pilot Guides, and they don't have a lot of info on the Long Night or Aslan Border Wars. Are there any better sources?

 

[rancke]

Yeah, that's pretty hard to reconcile. The only sources I have for Reaver's Deep are the two Gamelords' Pilot Guides, and they don't have a lot of info on the Long Night or Aslan Border Wars. Are there any better sources?

I don't think there are any other canon sources. There was some pretty solid fanon work done by the TML Pocket Empire group headed by Guy Garnett in the TNE days. Some of it was published in The Traveller Chronicle. Much of that plus some more was published in
Reavers' Deep Sector Sourcebook. I did a lot of the historical work.


Hans

 

[rancke]

I don't read the MGT passage as incompatible with the Solomani and Aslan Duel War at all. As you suggest, I think it's plausible that the Imperial technological advantage was enough to pressure the Aslan into proposing a Duel War to resolve the conflict. It's honorable and cunning: a ritualistic contest probably represented their best hope of triumphing over a enemy with superior tech.

But if the Imperium had such a tremendous force advantage, why agree to a duel-war that would give the Aslan an even chance?

And what would the Imperium had had to agreed to if the Aslan had won?


Hans