Do AI's have rights in Traveller?

[Orionruse]

I have to admit, playing Traveller has been an on again/ off again propostion for me. Now that we can play on the internet, I'm sure that is about to change. As such, I have been pondering several ideas for adventures/stories/settings...

Do AI's have rights in Traveller?

In "Andromeda," AI's had the same rights as living beings-- before the Long Night. After the fall, AI's became persecuted as more people started to mistrust them.

In "Dune," machines damn near wiped humanity out. By the time the story starts out, machines are all but outlawed.

If I ever start an online Traveller campaingn, I don't want to start a schism because of not knowing the background of the OTU well enough.

Please help!!!

 

[shield]

No AIs don't have rights in the third imperium, basically because there are no AIs like those seen in andromeda. Cleon I made a statement that all sientents have rights (including those with cyborg type implants) but robots are not sientent.

Even the best imperial robot was not fully AI. That required TL17 - so no Rommie, and the imperium was TL15 with some TL16 creeping in at the time of the rebellion.

As part of TNE, certain virus types (peacemaker) became aware and sane -(most virus was aware but insane). The Reformation Coalition granted these sane viruses rights in 1204.

Hope that helps

Cheers
Richard

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Rich is correct, mano. I would direct you to the Traveller's Digest series of magazines by DGP. Rare as hell to find because they were simply the best support rag to hit the game, so folks hoard them. The feature adventure for every issue involved a team of adventurers (A Scout, a Scientist, a Journalist, and a Robot of the Scientist's creation) as they travel the Imperium. One of the main plot harpoons is that the 'bot is "pseudo-biological" and can pass for human. Made for a wonderful role-play challenge in our group.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

What an Excellent Topic! My vote is a strong No. Solely based on "Dune" reasons, as stated above... the day we make machines that are "better" than we are (Basically make them so they can percieve how flawed humaniti is, psychologically.) is the day that we sign our own Death Warrants... The Ancients and thier warbots found this out the hard way... There is a precedent in the Library on this topic...

Shudusham Concords
Agreement signed by twelve worlds of the Sylean Federation at Shudusham (Core/Capital 1821) in -110 which dealt with weaponry carried by robots. The Concords have no legal force now, but many worlds have adopted similar or identical standards using the Concords as a template, and most robots produced commercially in the Imperium are designed with these restrictions in mind.
The Concords consisted of seven articles:

Article 1
This gives a general explanation of the document, overall guidelines for robot construction, locations and occasion of robot use, and the rights of robot owners. The robot's owner is responsible for all actions the robot may perform, whether direct or indirect. Reliability is thus identified as a key issue, as is motivation for a robot equipped with a weapon or used as a weapon.

Article 2
Describes detailed programming guidelines for general functions.

Article 3
Covers detailed manufacturing standards to insure reliability and provide for the safety of owners and the general public.

Article 4
Gives guidelines for when and where weapons are allowed or prohibited.

Article 5
Describes specific programming logic for weapon control and usage. Most strongly worded of all the articles.

Article 6
Details manufacturing standards to insure weapon reliability, when weapon installation is allowed.

Article 7
provides for a new agency whose responsibility is to enforce the articles of the Concords.
Forty-three amendments were made over the course of the Concords' active life. The best known is the 37th amendment, that no pseudo biological robot may attempt to pass itself off as a living being. A hardcopy of the Concords is on display at the Museum of Sylean History on Capital.

This Description is vague at best, but article 7 hits it right on the head... I myself hail from a world that makes large use of Robotic Labor, in mining lanthanum, agricultural processing, and many other tasks. It is a system that works well, as the robots are "dumb" A smart robot, (or computer, etc.) and I mean really smart, Fully Self Aware, Etc. would be a wonderous thing indeed at tech level F... if there were only one of them... There are several good Precedents in ancient terran videos about the subject, one that comes to mind is one called "The Terminator" the other, infinitely more terrifying in its implications is a film called "Demon Seed"

Again, A great topic, what?

 

[kafka47]

Under the Third Imperium AIs would have limited rights, think of AB-101... But, generally speaking no rights would be the rule.

However in the Fourth Imperium I guess we have to wait and see?

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by RichardP:
No AIs don't have rights in the Third Imperium, basically because there are no AIs like those seen in andromeda. Cleon I made a statement that all sentients have rights (including those with cyborg ype implants) but robots are not sentient.

Actually, Cleon I said that sentient lifeforms had rights. Thus while one might argue that a robot was sentient, it wouldn't be a lifeform. However, it's true that true artificial intelligence is above TTl 15, so the question is moot.

Aybee van Owen has rights (or is treated as if he had rights) because it is a well-kept secret that he is a robot, not because he is sentient.

(One of the many reasons I regret the current situation with the DGP copyrights is that I would love to explore what happened to Aybee in the GT universe .)


Hans

 

[TKalbfus]

Could there be a "Terminator" from the future roming around the Classic Traveller Universe or the GURPS alternate timeline. In the Gurps timeline the Emperor's assasin was himself assasinated before he could do his deed. Perhaps, "time agents" from the future were involved. But what if, hiding amonst their equipment a virus lay hidden unknown to the time agents. That virus is part of a community of viruses from the future that hate organic life itself. Now the goal of the human time agents is to create the GURPS Traveller timeline and the Goal of the viruses that snuck away with them is to stop them. Neither one of the groups wants to drastically alter the timeline, and the evil viruses want to preserve the future timeline that leads to them. Enter into the scene, the "good guy" A.I. viruses from the future. At some point the "evil" viruses arrange for an "accident" that kills off the time agent. The evil viruses then hide out in the net and wait for history to unfold. The "good guy" viruses are also out in the net, but they need to recruit the player characters to under take the mission the original time agents set out to do, namely to prevent the assasination of the Emperor. The AI's can put alot of high technology TL 17 in the players hand by downloading blueprints to their computers, but watchout! It could be infected by the "Evil" AI viruses. Now does this sound like a good idea for an adventure involving AIs?

 

[Orionruse]

So, if an AI is not allowed to progress beyond it's original programming, why are they allowed to learn at all. If I am reading the rules right, certain computer programs and robots actually gain "experience."

If knowledge is power, and computers/ robots actually retain more of it, what keeps them from steering users in a mode of thinking that they want? Sure, a mere computer just does what it is told, but what about a positronic computer? I'm sure that higher aspects of technological development would require the assistance of a near sentient computer to draw conclusions that an organic may never see. Would'nt that same computer be able to pull a stunt like in "The Demon Seed?"

In my opinion, it's more sinister to steer humaniti in a desired direction than to simply eradicate them. A positronic computer could easily have it's way by how it organizes the data it "wishes" organics to view.

Of course, if you consider the argument that the "Sylean Articles" make it mandatory that certain protocols are followed, it becomes necessary for a programmer/ technician to facilitate such a conspiracy.

Yet another example of how technology can be used to nip you in the butt.

If an AI has no rights, then they can't be held accountable for what they do.

 

[TKalbfus]

So, if an AI is not allowed to progress beyond it's original programming, why are they allowed to learn at all. If I am reading the rules right, certain computer programs and robots actually gain "experience."

If knowledge is power, and computers/ robots actually retain more of it, what keeps them from steering users in a mode of thinking that they want?

Have you ever considered the possibility that an AI might not be capable of wanting? An AI might be just as intelligent or more so than a human, but it might not have any motivation or desires. It just does what its instructed to do, it may do so creatively, but it might not have any wants or desires because wants and desires weren't programmed into its learning program. You might create a computer with a personal agenda, but that's up to the programmer to include that in his programming. An intelligent AI computer does what it has to in order to fullfil its instructions, but it doesn't ask why, or demand pay or require a reason to fullfill those instructions. If you want a computer that thinks like a human, you need to supply a reason why the programmer or owner would make such a thing. The default assumption is that computers do what they're instructed to do, unless programmed otherwise. Having an intelligence many times that of a human doesn't change this.

Sure, a mere computer just does what it is told, but what about a positronic computer? I'm sure that higher aspects of technological development would require the assistance of a near sentient computer to draw conclusions that an organic may never see. Would'nt that same computer be able to pull a stunt like in "The Demon Seed?"

I'm not familiar with the work "Demon seed". Positronic computers are an Asmovian invention for his "I Robot" novels. I reality I don't think positrons would improve the performance of any computer. Positron could be treated as a brandname such as the Positron Computer Company and any computers made by that company are called "Positronic" computers. That just means that this company is particulally adept at making A.I. devices. The biggest market for human-like computers would be in the virtual reality entertainment industry. A human would plug himself into a computer and interact with artificial A.I. run personalities in a virtual computer generated world. People might also want robotic A.I. companions, particularly if they don't get along so well with other humans, but such things would always have a fail-safe that allows the humans to turn them off. The computers and robots would have limited free will and may argue a little, but will always obey orders. A.I.s in simulations aren't so restricted, because their existance is predicated on their ability to generate challenges for humans interacting with them.

In my opinion, it's more sinister to steer humaniti in a desired direction than to simply eradicate them. A positronic computer could easily have it's way by how it organizes the data it "wishes" organics to view.

Of course, if you consider the argument that the "Sylean Articles" make it mandatory that certain protocols are followed, it becomes necessary for a programmer/ technician to facilitate such a conspiracy.

 

[kafka47]

Don't you know the fate of Abyee in GT was to have been sent back in time from the Rebellion Milieu to assassinate an Archduke on the Sargon. Unfortunately, this created a temporal paradox and violation of intellectual property, so that I large portion of the timeline is considered invalid.

Seriously, though, I think that GT would not accepted Abyee any more than he was in MT. The whole pseudobiological debate seems relatively childish, when you compare it to the developments in SF since 1977. Robots have come a long way from Danieel and C-3P0 (although, Lucas has yet to realize that).

I am wondering if T20 will ever produce a supplement dedicated to Robots to finally put some of the Traveller contraveries to rest?