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General Did anyone else read about the plan...

Spinward Scout

SOC-14 5K
Baron
I was reading an article, wish I could remember where, about the planned Mars mission.

They were talking about aerobreaking at Mars.

What they mentioned was hitting the atmosphere of Mars 130 times in order to break the ship.

And then I read this on a Google search:

historical missions like Mars Odyssey performed over 300 passes, Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) used over 850 passes, and Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) took about 5 months of daily drag passes to achieve their final orbits.

Why are Traveller ships reversing course halfway when they can just aerobreak when they get to a World?

I think we should try it.

Can we playtest aerobreaking?
 
I was reading an article, wish I could remember where, about the planned Mars mission.

They were talking about aerobreaking at Mars.

What they mentioned was hitting the atmosphere of Mars 130 times in order to break the ship.

And then I read this on a Google search:



Why are Traveller ships reversing course halfway when they can just aerobreak when they get to a World?

I think we should try it.

Can we playtest aerobreaking?

This is how you do it at TL7, when you're limited by actual laws of physics. Traveller-style magic thrusters don't need 300 passes and 5 months to slow down a tiny smidgen at a time. You just flip it 180 and keep running that thruster at 100%. When time is money, and you've got a ship payment to make, you don't want to spend almost half a year doing it old school out of some retro chic. You could. Anyone could. What you really need for it is a paid-off ship, half a year of supplies and fuel, and someone to pay a crew's salaries for all this time.

Now what makes this an in-game possibility is a ship that's taken a thruster hit over a low-tech world that can't put up a rescue effort. MgT1 p. 142 says as long as the ship has power, the air and consumables will hold out for 6 months, though it will be stale after a month. You're basically on 1/6 rations to make them last as long as possible, while a ship with no way to repair a thruster (no repair parts on board? This is what happens...) bumps along the atmosphere using a 4000-year old technique some hotshot pilot read about in a history book. "We can do it, Captain. I did a paper on this back at the Academy. Back in the pre-thruster days, this was how they had to slow down for re-entry."
 
Sorry to be That Guy but it’s aerobraking not aerobreaking. Although aerobreaking might be the right term for hitting an atmosphere with even just a portion of the vee Traveller ships accrue.
 
Sorry to be That Guy but it’s aerobraking not aerobreaking. Although aerobreaking might be the right term for hitting an atmosphere with even just a portion of the vee Traveller ships accrue.
No aerobreaking? That almost sounds more like a dance style. To quote the Rappin' Duke, "... Don't need no cardboard for my shoulder spins ..."
 
It could descend to groundbreaking.
The term of art you're looking for is ... Lithobraking.
You use the lithosphere to decelerate ... 💥

And a Thoroughly Satisfying Kaboom™ was had by all ... :eek:
Why are Traveller ships reversing course halfway when they can just aerobreak when they get to a World?
Because Traveller craft are capable of 1G+ continuous acceleration during an entire transit, which can last for days/weeks of time.

TL=6 chemical rocketry doesn't have the "power density" to sustain 1G+ acceleration for more than an hour of operation (in most configurations).
TL=7 ionic propulsion is capable of vanishingly small accelerations over LONG durations (months or more), but that's a different use case (typically robotic, rather than manned). Low acceleration over longer time frames is "more efficient" (in a variety of ways) for orbital maneuvering than using high acceleration for short bursts with long inertial coast phases between acceleration burns.

Furthermore, aerobraking requires a streamlined hull ... and not every craft that can be built in Traveller has a streamlined hull (for reasons various and sundry). :unsure:
Can we playtest aerobreaking?
To my knowledge, aerobraking already existed in LBB2.77 and LBB2.81. :rolleyes:

LBB2.77, p35:
Atmospheric Braking: Ships passing very close to the surface of a world with a standard or dense atmosphere may slow their speed through atmospheric braking. lf any portion of a ship’s vector passes within 1/4 inch of a world’s surface, that vector is reduced by 1/4 inch in length.
LBB2.81, p34:
Atmospheric Braking: Ships passing very close to the surface of a world with a standard or dense atmosphere may slow their speed through atmospheric braking. If any portion of a ship's vector passes within 10 mm of a world's surface, that vector is reduced by 10 mm in length.
So aerobraking has existed in Traveller from the beginning. :unsure:
I was reading an article, wish I could remember where, about the planned Mars mission.

They were talking about aerobreaking at Mars.

What they mentioned was hitting the atmosphere of Mars 130 times in order to break the ship.
The problem with Mars is the low atmospheric pressure.
In Traveller terms, it would be a Code: 2 (very thin, tainted) atmosphere.

Ask any engineers designing craft that need to descend to the planetary surface of Mars and they'll tell you that the atmosphere is BOTH "too thick" as well as "not thick enough" at the same time. o_O

It's "too thick" in the sense that ... you HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT in order to descend to the surface.
It's "not thick enough" in the sense that there's a limit to how much deceleration you can do using atmospheric drag with parachutes 🪂 ... so you need to use SOMETHING ELSE in order to get your velocity close enough to zero that you don't "break things" on contact with the lithosphere.

There's basically 2 ways (at TL=6) to do this ... all of which involve a combination of aerobraking, parachute breaking, active rocket thrust and ... additional engineering ... to deliver undamaged payloads to the surface of Mars.
Delivering DAMAGED payloads to Mars is EASY (and has been done multiple times already!). 💥📡😭

At this point, I'll get out of the way and let the professionals explain the Rube Goldberg™ contraptions they've needed to devise in order to reach the surface of Mars, from orbit ... because ... pictures vs millions of words. :sneaky:


 
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