DGP material?

[Border Reiver]

I loved all my dgp material that I owned but in various places on these forums i've seen references to problems in their "canonicity". I know there was a little disagreement between Rob Caswell/Joe Fugate and David Nielsen over the direction of Traveller back in the New Era but is there more to this unwillingness to use these great sources. Is there a comprehensive list of canon and non canon sources.

 

[Malenfant]

The problem with the DGP material is that the guy who owns the copyright - Roger Sanger - isn't interested in selling it to MWM (at least, not for a remotely reasonable price). Hence it is "forbidden canon" for authors of official books because nobody else can reference the material.

GMs can do whatever they like with it of course (well, anything legal anyway) in their own games, but it's got going to be reprinted/made available again unless Sanger decides to do that.

The material itself is pretty damn good I think, among the best published for Traveller, which makes it even more annoying that this legal quagmire exists.

(it's questions like this that make me think that really need a Traveller FAQ)

 

[hunter]

The 'canonicity' of the DGP material has nothing to to with disagreements between DGP and GDW. It has to do with the fact that DGP sold the rights off to Roger Sanger who so far has refused all offers to make the material available again. He also is unable to come to terms with Marc Miller on his own for a license to do anything with the material.

So, to avoid anyone infringing on Roger's rights as owner to the DGP material Marc has requested that licensees avoid using material from the DGP products.

The DGP material has not so much be 'decanonized' but has been restricted as 'Forbidden Canon'.

Things like the Judges Guild, Group One, and Paranoia Press stuff HAVE been decanonized.

Hunter

 

[mike wightman]

Hunter, do you know about the status of MT Journals 3 and 4?
They were both copyright GDW.
Were they sold off by DGP to RS, or does MWM have the rights to them as with the other GDW copyright material?

 

[Border Reiver]

That's what I needed to know though I have through google turned up a copy of an old permission statement from Sanger to MWM for use of DGP material in T4 way back when.
http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw/tavspecs/maint/dgp_faq.htm

 

[Malenfant]

What I want to know is why the rights were sold to Roger Sanger instead of MWM...

 

[mike wightman]

Probably something like being in the right place at the right time, with the right amount of cash

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by Border Reiver:
That's what I needed to know though I have through google turned up a copy of an old permission statement from Sanger to MWM for use of DGP material in T4 way back when.
http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw/tavspecs/maint/dgp_faq.htm

That's not really the issue. Marc already has the rights to what Roger 'gave' in that letter. All of the DGP material is derivative work to begin with.

What Marc is trying to do is prevent licensee from wholesale lifting of text from DGP material which WOULD be in violation of copyright.

Hunter

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by Malenfant:
What I want to know is why the rights were sold to Roger Sanger instead of MWM...

You'd have to ask Joe Fugate that question.

Hunter

 

[aramis]

RS was planning on finishing AI.

He worked on it a bit, and apparently found he'd been misled about how near completion it was.

Besides, RS is notorious for not completing tasks.

 

[mike wightman]

Now there was a game I wanted to see...

 

[Malenfant]

Besides, RS is notorious for not completing tasks.

I don't know what RS has ever been involved in (I don't know the DGP personalities at all. I don't even know who Joe Fugate is. I just read the books and didn't care who wrote them, and they're all 5000 miles away so I can't look at them). What makes you say he "is notorious for not completing tasks"?

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by hunter:
What Marc is trying to do is prevent licensee from wholesale lifting of text from DGP material which WOULD be in violation of copyright.

Hunter,

The big thing about using DGP stuff (for writing) is can we lift details? I don't want to use any rules or sections, just details and names.

For example, in WBH there is a note that, on Regina, only people born on world can participate in the government. Can I use that detail?

Or, how about Aslan clan names that only appear in DGP publications. Can I use those?

Thanks.

 

[Malenfant]

If SJG is anything to go by, they didn't use any DGP detail at all (such as what you were asking about) in the GT books. In fact, GT authors were specifically told to avoid DGP stuff (the GT K'kree & Aslan Alien Races book for example didn't mention anything about the Pathfinder crash which supposedly gave the Aslan the jump drive, which was introduced (AFAIK) in the DGP Solomani and Aslan book).

(Obviously, You can use whatever you like in your own games.)

 

[mike wightman]

Worse than that for copyright, Pathfinder was introduced in the Traveller's Digest magazine.

 

[Elliot]

Yet IIRC the whole pathfinder crash was 'secret knowledge' imparted by Marc Miller to Joe Fugate - so if it was the illustrious Mr Miller's idea who owns it in terms of canon?

(as usual - i wasnt there - i just bought the mags, so i might be wrong)

 

[kafka47]

Originally posted by hunter:

QUOTE]You'd have to ask Joe Fugate that question.

Hunter

Just give everyone an update (so far there has been no further reply from Joe regarding an e-interview. So I wrote him a polite "thank you" and wished him success in all future endeavours.

I guess he did not want to go back to that part of his life, despite intital interest.

If anyone is interested and wants to contact an actually face-to-face interview (I do have the questions culled together on one file if they are interested).

 

[aramis]

More correctly, since he purchased DGP, RS has become notorious for not completing tasks.

He's gotten to initial rules readyness on no less than 4 separate non-traveller projects, sought investors, and then disappeared before serious rules work was farmed out to anyone; each time the same pattern. He's said he'd like to sell MWM the DGP materials; he just values them far more than is reasonable.

 

[Malenfant]

What products are these? All I've ever heard of that has his name vaguely associated with it is AI

 

[Elliot]

Mr Sanger was attempting to put out a Traveller ezine in the TNE days, as I understand it he ran into big problems with GDW over copyright and so the whole thing never happened.