Design cost of battledress in T20 too high?

[apoc527]

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but why do the robot "appendages" (I assume these mean the arms of the armor) cost something like 50K? I looked in the design sequences and couldn't figure out why it cost so much. I think I got somewhere around 20K. That's over half as much.

Specifically, the Appendage Cost Formula on T20 pg 244 says (STR score x Cr100) x Dex score = total cost in Credits. Using this formula, the Battledress arms should cost (20x100)x10 or Cr20,000. Do you have to pay for the AR10 armor or something? Perhaps the designers accidentally doubled the price to include two arms, then forgot about it and charged that much for both arms. If I'm right, the price of battledress just fell by about KCr62...

I ask because I'm going to design a few alternate suits of armor. A light "recon" version and a truly heavy "assault" version, and I'd like to get the design rules right the first time (or so...heh).

Also, if you're reading this, does anyone know if the Vehicle and Starship data blocks are available in form PDF format? It'd be REALLY nice to have those (or an Excel file or even a properly formatted Word document). If not, I guess I can do the table work in Word myself. Thanks!

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello apoc527 and Happy New Year,

"Specifically, the Appendage Cost Formula on T20 pg 244 says (STR score x Cr100) x Dex score = total cost in Credits. Using this formula, the Battledress arms should cost (20x100)x10 or Cr20,000. Do you have to pay for the AR10 armor or something? Perhaps the designers accidentally doubled the price to include two arms, then forgot about it and charged that much for both arms. If I'm right, the price of battledress just fell by about KCr62..."

Reading over the design sequence steps the resulting cost is Cr20,000 per appendage/arm, which totals 40,000. This does not include the cost of Armor. I believe that the cost basically includes the heavier construction materials, motors, gears, etc required for the strentgh and or dexterity designed into the equipment.

"Also, if you're reading this, does anyone know if the Vehicle and Starship data blocks are available in form PDF format? It'd be REALLY nice to have those (or an Excel file or even a properly formatted Word document). If not, I guess I can do the table work in Word myself. Thanks!"

The last time I checked the only PDF worksheets listed are for Characters, SubSector, Star Systems, and worlds. Good idea, at least until the official document comes out. Best of luck on the worksheet/form design.

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by apoc527:
Also, if you're reading this, does anyone know if the Vehicle and Starship data blocks are available in form PDF format? It'd be REALLY nice to have those (or an Excel file or even a properly formatted Word document). If not, I guess I can do the table work in Word myself. Thanks!

The stat blocks are not available in PDF format, but if you (or anyone else) who want a copy of one in Word 97 which is being used for the TA3/5/7, email me at tjoneslo@softstart.com with a message title of "[T20] Vehicle Format Wanted", and I'll send it along.

 

[apoc527]

Ok, so how do you figure out how much the armor costs for the appendages? I find it hard to believe that the cost of the armor is anywhere close to KCr20, when the armor for the rest of the suit costs a mere Cr3594. I'm still of the opinion that I found an erratum. I would have assumed that the appendages are part of the chassis, and so the cost of armoring them falls under armoring "the vehicle." It doesn't look like turrets get armored separately, so I would assume that appendages don't either.

Note that battledress isn't all that expensive except for the two arms. It seems kind of ridiculous to me that you'd spend this much on two arms. After all, the AFV costs LESS than the battledress does. <gets GT Ground Forces, T4 Emperor's Arsenal, and TNE> Aha. Well, this is interesting. The price of BD at the same TL varies HUGELY across all three of these systems.

For TL13 "Medium" Battledress, the costs are-

T20- Cr95,135
GT "Rearden" class medium BD- KCr53
TNE- (TL14) KCr220 (probably because of the tech level)
T4 Emperor's Arsenal- KCr304

Ok, well what does this tell me? Absolutely nothing. Wonderful. Ok, I guess all I want to know is how to figure the *right* cost for T20 designs of battledress.

Specifically, I plan on designing a light duty unit, a heavy assault suit, and a medium grav-powered scout unit.

I'll probably go with vls of 250, 450, and 350 respectively.

Also, does anyone know how many "EPs" an FGMP might use? I plan on hooking it up to the suit's power systems. The above designs will be TL14-15, so I think I'll use advanced fusion plants and make them extended duty designs.

Ahhhh...so much fun. Now I know why people like design sequences.

Thanks!

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello apoc527,

Apparently, I do not have a clue about what is being asked in the post. Further, I have not really looked at the vehicle design sequence, but I am working with the Starship/Spaceship/Small Craft design section. My original post was after doing a quick read of the various sections, so I apologize if my answer was out to lunch. However, my understanding of the text is that AR is figured for the complete unit not the individual parts. The cost on page 286 does appear to be incorrect.

Since I appear not to have a clue on this thread I will refrain from any further posts on this topic.

Respectfully,

 

[tjoneslo]

Regarding the cost of the Battledress arms: Yes, you have found an eratta. The cost of the battledress should be KCr61 lower. I believe this is a case of battledress arms being build using early draft of the rules, then the rules being changed, but the battledress design not being updated.

No you don't have to pay seperatly for the armor on the arms (or other appendages or turrets or anything else).

When the battledress was originally built during the playtest, Hunter was surprised at how cheap it was compared to the KCr600 pricetag of the CT battledress.

The reason the TNE and T4 battledress is more expensive than the GT/T20 is due to differences in cost of small powerplants and electronics mostly. FF&S (both versions) put a premium on small high-output power plants and things like sensors are an order of magnitude more expensive.

 

[apoc527]

No worries Tom Rux, your input is always appreciated.

Glad that was worked out. I'll go post it in the Errata forum now.

 

[trancejeremy]

Things like this are why I really thought the design sequences should have been in a separate book, and expanded (and wrote so in my review of T20).

Seems to me, using the vehicle/spaceship rules to design battle dress just don't work very well.

 

[apoc527]

Ironically, GURPS Traveller Ground Forces does the same thing. It uses its vehicle design system to create and give stats for the various battledresses (that sounds funny) that are in use in the GT 3E.

I think the system actually DOES work fairly well. I'm going to (really, I am) design two suits of battledress with the rules exactly as written, trying not to rely too heavily on the examples in the design section. I feel that if the actual sequences can produce consistent vehicles and suits of powered armor that aren't too horribly messed up, it probably works fairly well. More to come...perhaps I'll do it tomorrow.