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Dave's vision

kafka47

SOC-14 5K
Marquis
I came across an archive of TNE posts to some mailing list and kept coming across references to Dave Nilsen's vision.

What was his vision for TNE? I really like the angle that MJD is doing but wonder what was planned...

There was not much of a narrative even though there was a story arc, especially compared to the Children of Earth campaign.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kentares:
Yes, I´m curious about Dave´s vision and would like to know also. Anyone ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I seem to remember that there is a whole can of worms attached to this question.

------------------
Dave "Dr. Skull" Nelson
 
Actually, this is one of the biggest things I hate about TNE.

There are all of these loose threads lying around (Empress Wave, Avery's fate, Zhodani Civil War, Black Curtain, etc, etc.) that no one will explain.

I could understand keeping the cards close to the vest if someone was ever going to *do* something with the information. But they are not. There are a few people in on "the secret", but they are "sworn to secrecy". Why? It makes no sense. It is just so maddening.

All I can say is thank you MJD for working to retell TNE so that all of these ridiculous "secrets" can finally die. Now we can even have the real story and Nilsen can keep his irrelevant "vision".
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daryen:
...that no one will explain. I could understand keeping the cards close to the vest if someone was ever going to *do* something with the information... so maddening.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If that is true I find it stupid.

We should know what was planned so we can enjoy (much more) what MJD and team are doing now.

That´s is my opinion. I dont intend to hurt someone´s feelings. Sorry.
 
That's right. Deleterious Dave had 5 years after GDW closed in which he could've made his vision known, and he didn't do it. MJD is doing it. Therefore, IMO, through inaction Dangling Dave has forfeited 'his' vision, and Martin's is now THE vision for Traveller's New Era. Sure, some fans might still prefer to have seen what Despotic Dave had planned, but by the same token some of us might've liked to see what the Keith Bros or DGP (or even Courtney Solomon) had planned as well. In a cooperative creative exercise based on someone else's intellectual property, your 'vision' only holds authority so long as you're acting on it. Sit too long and it's only fair that someone else take up where you left off, impose their own vision, and continue the cycle. TNE 2002 won't be exactly like TNE 1994 any more than CT 1986 was exactly like CT 1979, but it's all still Traveller, and that's what matters.

I suppose if someone's curious enough, perhaps they could track Disappearing Dave down to wherever he is now (AFAIK he's no longer involved in the gaming industry), ply him with enough alcohol and/or flattery, and he might finally spill his great unrealized 'vision,' but at this point it's only interesting as trivia, no moreso than DGP's 'Baddies from the Core.' The New Era is dead. Long live the New Era!
 
One other thing: We may eventually find out about the Empress Wave and the Zhodani Civil War in GURPS Traveller.

In the GT Sourcebook, Loren states that Strephon was away in GT for the same reasons as in MT: investigating Long Bow and the Empress Wave. Other quotes from him I have seen on the web strongly indicate that he is going to do something with the Empress Wave in GT when he decides the time is right.

In TNE the Imperium detected the evidence of a Civil War in Zhodani space in 1119. I believe GT is at 1119/1120 right now. So, if Loren so desires, he could easily move things up a bit and make things happen in GT similar to what was planned in TNE.

Or not. GT has been out for a while now and the setting is increadibly static. I see no indication that will change any time soon.
 
It was the very static nature of the third imperium setting that produced my Star Kingdom of Swan game. My players wanted to be able to effect future history. It is for much the same reason that although many have the GT stuff it is not being played. Instead it is being mined for ideas for TNE games.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kentares:
Crap! Who (or what) the hell is Empress Wave and the Long Bow ???????????<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's probably a FAQ or something somewhere that explains this better, but the quick & dirty version goes something like this:

Longbow was a super-top-secret Imperial project where parallel observation stations across the width of the Imperium formed a giant telescopic lens to observe the galactic Core and Zhodani Core Expedition routes. Strephon's investigation of a Longbow station that went suddenly offline in 1116 is why he was away from Capitol during Dulinor's assassination attempt. Per Loren Wiseman's comments in the GT rulebook, this is still true in the GTU.

Evidence of The Empress Wave is what Strephon found at the Longbow station. The Wave is apparently a massive psionic-related phenomenon propogating from the galactic core at the speed of light. It's caused chaos in the Zhodani Consulate (apparently frying the minds of existing psionics and turning mundanes psionic) but had no apparent (or at least yet-determined) effect on the vargr. And the wavefront is due to hit the coreward edge of the Regency in 1205. Strephon's 'geneered son Avery left the Regency on a super-secret expedition behind the Empress Wavefront to try and determine its cause several years ago (c. 1180?) and hasn't returned.

This info comes mostly from Survival Margin and the Regency Sourcebook, pieced together with generous amounts of speculation and assumption (which are possibly incorrect, and definitely incomplete), but this is the generally accepted 'baseline' version. An interpretation which has been going around recently (and which I like) is that the Wave is not the single monolithic entity that people (i.e. us) have generally been thinking of it as, but rather an 'umbrella' term encompassing several related phenomena which can exhibit different effects at different times and places. This serves to: 1) make The Wave into a continuing mystery, not a one-trick pony; 2) explain its apparently different effects on vargr vs zhodani; and 3) explain why it was never mentioned until 1116 even though, given what we think we know, it should've been crossing Charted Space for hundreds of years prior to that.

MJD has stated (probably somewhere on this board) that the Wave (which by 1248 will have passed well into Imperial Space) will be dealt with in his book, and will be presented as something of a continuing mystery, but will not be the sort of apocalyptic campaign-wrecker or intro to a new 'Traveller: The Jedi Era' setting that many had previosuly speculated it might be.

Hope this helped.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
Hope this helped.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed, this did help quite a bit.

Personally, I believe that the best published RPG settings are static.

Still, as someone who only bought the core MT books and nothing TNE or T4, it's nice to know what people are talking about.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RobertFisher:
Personally, I believe that the best published RPG settings are static.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I go back and forth on this. I don't like settings that are so static that it feels like nothing ever happens (GT, T4, CT except for the FFW), but I also don't like settings with so much 'realtime' development that it interferes with individual GMs' campaigns (TNE, to a lesser extent MT and CT's FFW).

The compromise that I think suits my tastes best is to detail a setting just on the cusp of complete catastrophe, with hints that everything's about to hit the fan VERY SOON, but then to keep the timeline frozen and leave actual future developments up to individual GMs. Examples that pop to mind are the original (1979) World of Greyhawk set and RQ3's Glorantha material (e.g. Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars).

Of course the fact that AFAIK both of those have since abandoned that model and gone to a 'dynamic/timeline' structure shows the precariousness of this setup -- the audience is going to be constantly clamoring to know 'what happens next' and eventually it's going to be awfully tempting to just tell them.
 
In my opinion its all very simple:

Dave's vision was to make Traveller a quick seller while GDW was trading while insolvent, thereby staving off the bankruptcy petition.

I don't know what MWM thought about it, or if he accepted the direction it went (I don't have T4, so if anyone can fill me in . . . )

IMO DN hated Traveller and wanted to kill it - I think Karl Marx said 'history often repeats itself - the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce' (or words to that effect). MT was tragedy, TNE (Dave's layout, but not the idea)was farce.

I adopt the submission made above, TNE is dead, long live TNE (MJD style).
 
I would say I like a "stable" setting. To me MT (and, by extension TNE) became so overwrought that the storyline was oppressive. Meanwhile the GT storyline doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Overall I really did like the way the CT storyline was done. It was a stable background that had things happen in it. I really enjoyed getting those JTAS magazines and reading the TNS articles.

To me the biggest failing of the CT setting is that it was all explored. It needed some true undiscovered territory and smaller polities.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
This info comes mostly from Survival Margin and the Regency SourcebookHope this helped.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly did. Much thanks.

I own all TNE books and should´ve missed that.

One statement I must make - I hate static settings



[This message has been edited by Kentares (edited 17 May 2002).]
 
MY vision looks like this...

M1248 is a dynamic setting, in that time is moving forward and things are happening. However, while these things do have a major local impact 9depending upon where you are) and in some cases wide consequences, there will be no repeat of the board-wiping and invalidation of campaigns.

For example, most of the huge setting-changing events are now (fairly recent) history. The Curtain is open (mostly); some other stuff that I'm not telling about is now over.

But; the polities will expand... wars may break out, or joint expeditions be launched. Reconstruction is happening all around and sometimes the unexpected wil leap up; the official setting will thus be dynamic.

What it won't be is squashed flat every few months, or wracked by immense changes. And wwhile we plan to release Grand Adventures that will cause some changes to the setting, we'll not be dictating to referees how this setting is to be played in, etc.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MJD:
...we'll not be dictating to referees how this setting is to be played in...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No matter how hard you would try, there´s no Game Police to enforce otherwise
biggrin.gif
 
While I wholeheartedly support MJD efforts. I just wanted an outline of where TNE was heading under Dave. If people say it is secret that is does not make sense, as the commercial property which hosted TNE is dead.

As for Loren's continuation, I do not believe that SJG wants to change Traveller in any significant way, otherwise, they would fear that they would lose the loyality of the large CT base out there.

For me, I like change and story arcs and hope that they will be continued in any new form of Traveller. Look at T4, just equipment sourcebooks and M0 which did not really alter our knowledge of Traveller. I would like see the game progress into areas not yet explored. The only way the game logically could do this is build into the great narrative of the story told so far.

Therefore, I know I may not like Dave's vision or believe that it is truly Traveller. I still want to hear it to make up my own mind. And, possibly out of the synthesis we can create a better backdrop.
 
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