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Damage systems?

BlindGuy

SOC-12
Hi All,

Can anybody elaborate on the "V1 and V2 damage systems," mentioned in the gun and armor makers? Is the V2 system just implementing the various damage types, (burn, bullet, etc.)? I'm a bit confused as to the distinction between the old-style (direct to characteristics), systems and the new one as intended in T5.

Any insight would be very much appreciated. :)
 
I'm surprised no one has chimed in by now.

This is my take (and thus only my opinion)...

I think the purpose of V1 is twofold:
  • To provide a quick(er) system for dealing with "mooks" when a lot of detail isn't needed. (I even thought I saw words to that effect in the T5 book)
  • To provide a simpler system for people who don't want the added complexity of V2.

V2 is there for people who want more detail. It's quite true that a laser is going to do burn damage whereas a grenade will be fragmentation and concussion (with maybe a little burning). So, even though they may deal out the same amount of damage, they may interact with armor and protection differently.

Personally, I don't think I'll ever use V2. It's just too much detail for me. But, there are those that like that kind of thing. I think Mr. Miller was trying to give both sets of people something useful.

Lee
 
I'm surprised no one has chimed in by now.

This is my take (and thus only my opinion)...

I think the purpose of V1 is twofold:
  • To provide a quick(er) system for dealing with "mooks" when a lot of detail isn't needed. (I even thought I saw words to that effect in the T5 book)
  • To provide a simpler system for people who don't want the added complexity of V2.

V2 is there for people who want more detail. It's quite true that a laser is going to do burn damage whereas a grenade will be fragmentation and concussion (with maybe a little burning). So, even though they may deal out the same amount of damage, they may interact with armor and protection differently.

Personally, I don't think I'll ever use V2. It's just too much detail for me. But, there are those that like that kind of thing. I think Mr. Miller was trying to give both sets of people something useful.

Lee

Yes, but I think the heart of BlindGuy's question is: "In V2, how is damage assessed to a character once the amount has been determined"? The reason I did not chime in a long time ago is that I myself do not have an answer to that question. I have in fact even brought it up explicitly in the T5 Errata thread a long time ago, but as yet no answer has been forthcoming, and I have not seen any clarification in T5.09.

In earlier editions of Traveller, damage was assessed against STR, DEX, and END in various manners, and with various overall effect. In T5 there is no mention of some version of this method for assessing damage effects to a character, but neither is an alternative method clearly described.

This is in fact one of the primary reasons I have been holding off on trying T5 as a complete RPG-system, rather than simply pulling subsystems from it to use as toolkit elements for other editions.
 
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It's not clear, but I've put some mental calories into trying to understand it. As far as I can tell, V2 deals with damage in the form of wounds in varying severity, which apply modifiers to the character's actions.

For example:
Mike is shot by a Laser Rifle (QREB=0) for Burn-2 Pen-2. He is wearing 6 points of armor without additional protection. As I understand it, Pen should come first, and if it exceeds the armor, then the additional damage type is added. YMMV on that. For my example though, we'll use my understanding.

Rolling for location, we determine that he has been hit in location 7, the Torso, which is covered by his armor.

Both sets of damage roll average(7 pen, 7 burn), with the 7 points of Pen exceeding his armor and transferring 1 point of pen damage to hits, and the 7 points of burn damage bypassing the armor.

Mike has taken an 8 hit wound to location B(Torso), which is a Severity 4 wound. He must make an immediate Severity vs C3 roll or go Out of Action.

RAW, that seems to be it. You retain the wounds for the purposes of required medical aid, but they don't seem to do much other than require another check to avoid going OOA.

In my games, he will take a -4 penalty to any actions involving C1 C2 C3, and he his treatment and diagnosis difficulties under the medical skill are against a severity 4. If he reaches Severity 7+, he's dead. Those modifiers are global, although the severity for separate wounds is not (they're tracked by the letter groupings), so it becomes harder to resist going OOA as the damage increases.

Just how I understand it from reading 5.0 and 5.09.

Edit: After a couple more days of thinking about it, I have this caveat to my interpretation:

Severity 7+ is automatic OOA, but not necessarily dead. If the Sev7+ wound is to a limb, I'd say that it's crippled, and requires immediate medical aid (surgery) to restore function. Left untreated, it will require a Sev vs. C3 roll to avoid permanent injury (Player's choice of (Sev) points of permanent damage to C1, C2, C3, repairable with cloned limb or cybernetic). Sev7+ to Head or Torso requires a Sev vs C3 to avoid dying as part of OOA. Untreated Injuries to the torso lead to possible permanent injuries are as per limbs. For the Head, possible permanent injuries include C2, C4, C5 (loss of coordination, or brain damage) or permanent damage to senses (lost sight, hearing, smell/taste) (yeah, loss of smell seems like a dump location, but it's ok to throw a bone now and then) with an associated loss of effective C6 for the purposes of influence/interaction.

Granular, maybe. But I enjoy Living Steel, so I guess it's a personal thing.
 
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Of note aside from the above, is that they've changed V2 in 5.09, and the text there is as Igriffin mentioned; it's just a question of is your Assault Rifle (RA-7) Bullet-2 Blast-2 Bang-1 or Hits-5 for the purposes of assigning damage.
 
I don't have T5 yet, but I'm on the KS for 5.1, and that has me reading through the T5 forums. I've found this discussion interesting, but it raises a question:

Does different armor have different ratings against different types of damage?

I get that for each type of damage you throw <rating> dice against the armor's rating for that kind of damage, but the laser example above wasn't clear to me. If the PEN had failed to penetrate, would the BURN still have taken effect? Or are all damage types handled separately?

I'd guess the latter because of Reflec in the old systems, but CT conventions are not always a valid guide in other editions. :)
 
Hdan,

The short answer to your question is "yes". T5 has different damage types that correspond to different protection types with different effects.

'pen' actually deals double damage to the general protection type 'armor', and would be applied before and separately from 'burn'. If the armor withstood the 'pen' damage, then it would be applied in full to the 'burn'. If not, then the 'burn damage would hit the soft sophont underneath.

The system gets really complicated, really fast. Damage types and amounts are one of the things I hope got a real overhaul. In practice, I have played pretty fast and loose with these rules, as calc-ing out all of this really slows down combat, making it a larger fraction of our game time which I really don't want. I am looking forward to 5.1.
 
The V1/V2 difference is explicit, though hard to find, in 5.10:

p.iii116:

USING ARMOR Armor absorbs hits, wounds, injuries, or effects under the V1 or V2 hit systems.

The Hit System V1. The Basic Hit System (version 1) provides a simple hit mechanic for resolution of combat. V1 is intended for use with non-player characters (and especial-ly hordes of NPCs) when speed of resolution is important.

The Hit System V2. V2 Damage inflicts different types of damage based on the specific weapon. Armor is rated against V2 Damage to absorb different types of damage.
 
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